Advice Please - Negotiating Used Truck Price

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Dreamsend

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Aug 16, 2016
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I hope this is not to far off the forum's purpose, but ya'll have far more experience than I (since I have none).  What is a reasonable discount off of the listed price to try to negotiate for a used truck.  I'm not inquiring about a good price for a specific truck, but rather I'm asking if dealers in general offering certified pre-owned vehicles are prepared to deal.  I'm bad at negotiating, and I'm a single gal so they see me coming and I have to try to have my ducks in a row!  I have always purchased new vehicles, so no experience dealing with used.  I located  a 2015 truck - loaded with everything I need and more with 11500 miles for $36900.  Original MSRP was $48000.  Thanks in advance.

Linda
 
First do some research:
https://www.kbb.com
Craigslist for your town
Get financing pre arranged at your bank (sellers use financing to hide costs and get you to spend more)

Second you have to be willing to walk away:
If they aren't moving on price, tell them so, suggest if they are interested in your business they should get busy proving it and say "call me", then get up and leave. Really truly there will be other deals there are a lot of trucks available in this world.
 
Most dealers are going to have a minimum amount of profit in their asking price of 4-5 thousand dollars.  Are you going to get them to knock most of that off the price....No!  Used vehicles are where a dealer makes their money......not so much on new.  A very desirable car/truck will be harder to negotiate the price down than one that is higher miles, lots of them out there,  fewer options on it, etc.  An example.....the dealer takes a truck in on trade and allows the person 25,000 trade in price.  Three days later that same truck is on their used lot with an asking price of $31,995.  Would they take $28,000 for it....probably not.  Would they take $29,500 for it.....maybe. Would they take $30,000....probably, but only after they tell you no a time or two, or you threaten to walk.  Finally, they agree to the $30,000 price, make you feel like you just took their only son or daughter, and how hard of a bargain you drove.  Then, the bottom line totals come out.  You bought a great truck and got the dealer to come off of their asking price by $2000...and they threw in free oil changes for a year.....big deal, that cost them almost nothing.  Now the used truck manager and the salesman are smiling after you leave.  They've got $25,000 in the truck and they just sold it for a $5000 profit, of which the sales manager and salesman collect a nice commission and the dealership just made over $3000 in a matter of minutes or a few hours.

Of course this explanation is generic and the numbers can be a bit lower. OR...they can be higher.  There are a lot of factors and variables in every SALE that takes place, but one thing you can be certain of....They made MONEY on the deal and you lost.  It then becomes a matter of how much they made and how much you overspent.

A true story......I sold cars and trucks at a major Ford dealership for a short time back in 2003.  Our general manager came back from auction one day with a used, loaded up Expedition that he had given $19,900 for.  The next week it had been through or check out inspection process and was listed on our used vehicle sheet with an asking price of..........
$29,995.  If I remember correctly (it's been a while), it sold for $27,xxx.  Not a bad profit huh?
 
I don't necessarily disagree with xrated but, but, but: as a buyer, it's not my job to worry about or make sure the seller makes money.

Buyers need to understand that a professional car sales persons job (and that includes everyone employed at a car dealership) is to get every nickel they can out of the buyer.

I have gotten very significant discounts of asking price (10-35%) simply by offering cash. (This is where having a pre approved loan from your bank where all you have to do is write a check to the dealer comes in handy)
 
I have never yet purchased a new vehicle,and every experience has been a little different.
First,know what the Kelley Blue Book value is for your truck.
It appears to me that if a dealership has a vehicle on the lot priced at the Blue Book value they are less willing to negotiate that if they are asking a higher price.

I recently purchased a 2008 F250 with 47,000 miles
I spent about six weeks looking online at craigslist ads,dealership ads,and Auto Trader,so I had a good idea of how trucks were priced.I also visited a few dealers and test drove a few rigs.
It was listed right at KBB value.
They would not budge on the price but were willing to negotiate some accessories into the deal.
I ended up getting about 3000 in accessories by them giving me more on the trade in than they originally offered.

I never worry whether they dealership is making any money. I do not believe they will sell a vehicle at a loss unless it has been sitting for a while.

I never buy the same day I look at a vehicle.
Salesmen try very hard to make the sale before you leave because many do not come back.
I don't know how many times I've heard "The deal may not be there tomorrow" or "What will it take to get you in this truck today?"
So far have not lost a deal by waiting a day.
Even if you think it's the perfect deal,go home and think about it,do some more research.
It most likely will still be there tomorrow.

 
I have a longtime friend who's been in the used car business at large dealerships for about 25 years. He's told me that when buying new the formula for a "good deal" is actually more complicated because of the manufacturer kickbacks to the dealer and a variety of other credits, making it more difficult to figure out what the dealer's actual cost is and therefore what they'll accept.

However with used he gave me this easy formula: take KBB trade-in value and add $1000. This likely represents approximately the absolute minimum they'll accept for the vehicle. In cases of a high-demand vehicle that is hard to find, they may try for more.

Also, beware of "doc prep fees". Those are nothing but fake add-on fees that contribute to the bottom line. So using my friend's formula when negotiating: take KBB trade-in value plus $1000 including doc prep (so if their doc prep is $300 it's KBB plus $300 plus $700) plus taxes plus license = probable bottom line.

Dealers will start at KBB "retail" and work down. "Retail" is also a fake number but they will try hard to make you beleive that's what the vehicle's worth.

Also, shop for your own financing and be ready to use it. Once the deal has been negotiated without financing and without trade-in, find out what they have to offer.
 
Jeff in Ferndale Wa said:
They would not budge on the price but were willing to negotiate some accessories into the deal.
I ended up getting about 3000 in accessories by them giving me more on the trade in than they originally offered.

There's one of the other places dealers play, the trade value. If you are trading something in you need to be willing to fully negotiate that price too. Many times it's better to sell your vehicle personally and keep the new sale simpler.

 
Sun2Retire is definitely right about watching for the extra fees. You need to negotiate the bottom line, not somewhere in the middle.
 
Thanks much for all the great replies.  They are just what I needed to hear.  Here is a little more info.  The truck is in Penn. and I'm in Indpls.  I talked with the dealership this morning to get the actual tow and payload numbers off the door; the rest of the info was clearly listed in the ad.  All the numbers work.  The truck was owned for a year by the dealership's service manager (per Carfax, went to dealer in Nov. 2015 from Ford).  The salesman initially said they NEVER negotiate their used vehicle numbers, but after some banter he went to the manager, called me back and came down $900.00.  I used Edmund's True Market Value calculator which came back with a price of $35,100 for a certified exceptional condition model, and $34,100 for a certified clean model.  The dealer is at $36,000 right now.  This is sooooooooo close.  Honestly, this truck has EVERYTHING!!! I need plus much more since it has the highest luxury group pkg. which I would not get if I were to order a new truck, and it's even the RIGHT COLOR.  The ad popped up when I was searching last evening for the name of a salesman at a local Ford dealership I had talked to last August cause I lost his card.  I wasn't even searching for used trucks!  I never in my wildest expectations thought I could find a used truck that I wanted - make, model, with the right tow pkg., axle ratio, 4x4, extended fuel tank etc. and was simply planning to order a new one within the next 6 month or so in order to get what I needed.  Having worked with the numbers for a couple months now, a new 2017 of the right make, model and capabilities is somewhere around $13,000 to $15,000 higher.  Is this sernedipity? or misplaced temptation?

There may be a 700 mile RT road trip in the next couple days.  Thanks for letting me share.  I have those old-fashioned butterflies in my tummy which is probably not a good thing.

Linda
 
If you are willing to make that drive you should search for the same truck and see what you find.  You should make a low offer to test the response.  Be prepared to walk and make sure they know you will walk.  They need to sell the truck more than you need to buy it.
 
All trucks are NOT created the same, even seemingly identical models can vary. What are you intending to do with this truck?? Pull a trailer or fifth wheel trailer perhaps?? Be sure that the model you are looking at can support the use you envision for it. The load capacity on the yellow sticker versus the attributes of the trailer should be of prime concern in such a case and it would be nice to know before traveling 700 miles to find it does not meet your criteria.
 
Dreamsend said:
I used Edmund's True Market Value calculator

In the past I have not found Edmund's to accurately reflect car values, always seemed high, sometimes by a lot.

I suggest checking against Kelly Blue Book, and again, use only trade-in value, not retail, not private party. I'm going to guess it comes out at quite a bit less than where you are now. And remember, this is what the truck will be worth the second you sign, before you even leave the lot.

Dreamsend said:
The salesman initially said they NEVER negotiate their used vehicle numbers, but after some banter he went to the manager, called me back and came down $900.00. 

Complete rubbish. Typical good cop, bad cop routine. As others have said, be willing to walk away, don't fall in love with this one truck, there are plenty out there, no matter how perfect this seems.
 
I'd get Real Leary about the.. It belonged to the Service Manager (ploy) story. 15,000 miles in about One year, for someone who works full time ?  ::)

Do what the others have said.. Don't fall in love with this ONE truck.. Keep looking ??

Joe
 
BIG JOE said:
15,000 miles in about One year, for someone who works full time ?  ::)

Sounds believable/reasonable to me?

OP; sounds like it might be meant to be.  If it were me, I would call and tell them what you are willing to give (35K?), but that you are driving 350 miles and need to see it first hand.
 
I would tell them that I'm looking all over.  Low ball the offer $27-$28k.  You have no idea what they need to get out of the truck.  They may come down thousands.
 
Dreamsend said:
I never in my wildest expectations thought I could find a used truck that I wanted - make, model, with the right tow pkg., axle ratio, 4x4, extended fuel tank etc.

What are the exact specifics of this truck (year, model, trim level, add-ons, miles, etc)?
 
Linda, the very FIRST thing you need to do is to emotionally DETACH yourself from this truck.  When you get emotionally attached to something, it's way too easy to pay too much.  It's a business deal, pure and simple, nothing more...nothing less, and by your comments, you already own the truck from an emotional standpoint.  I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm simply trying to help you spend the least amount of money and get not only a truck that you want, but also the best value for your money.

Another point that I disagree with in several posts are the references to KBB.  Auto dealers almost exclusively use N.A.D.A. pricing for their ACTUAL numbers, the numbers that they need to use to make a profit.

And just so all of you know, I'm not concerned either about how much or how little a dealer makes on a deal.  I'm there to buy the product they have for the very least amount of money that I have to spend to get what I want. 

My current truck was purchased by me from a dealer that was six hours away from me.  I told him (once we got the truck price down to an acceptable number) that I will not pay $599 for Doc fees. He told me that those numbers are set by the dealership and printed on the sales order and cannot be negotiated away.  My response to him was that he should then deduct another $499 from the bottom line and name it whatever he wanted for additional discount.  He didn't really want to do that and I told him that would be the only way I would make the drive over and complete the deal.  The sales order showed that I paid a $599 Doc fee, but in reality, the extra $499 discount money caused it to be a $99 Doc fee, which I feel IS reasonable.

In my case, I was buying new and used Edmunds.com to spec out the price of the truck.  I know the MSRP ...AND the invoice price, which puts you in a great position for negotiating the price you're willing to pay.  That, and you, as a customer, always want to start from invoice price and go up if you have to.....not start at their price (MSRP or other), and come down.  When I bought my truck, it was the very FIRST year of the new Ford 6.7 diesel...2011 model.  Even though they were highly sought after, I paid about $350 over invoice price according to Edmunds.com, which is usually within a few dollars of being dead on with their pricing.  Hope all this helps.

And BTW, I applied the same technique when my wife bought her Hyundai Tucson about a year ago.  Their first price offer to us was actually over MSRP.  As soon as I saw the numbers I started laughing, and I mean laughing out loud.  I told the salesman, I'm going to give you one chance to get this right.  You screw up, and we're going somewhere else to buy it.  Again, I knew the MSRP  AND the invoice price.  I/wie will give you $300 over the invoice price.  If your next price is $301 over invoice, we walk.  It turned out well for us.
 
xrated said:
Linda, the very FIRST thing you need to do is to emotionally DETACH yourself from this truck.  When you get emotionally attached to something, it's way too easy to pay too much.  It's a business deal, pure and simple, nothing more...nothing less, and by your comments, you already own the truck from an emotional standpoint.  I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm simply trying to help you spend the least amount of money and get not only a truck that you want, but also the best value for your money.

Another point that I disagree with in several posts are the references to KBB.  Auto dealers almost exclusively use N.A.D.A. pricing for their ACTUAL numbers, the numbers that they need to use to make a profit.

And just so all of you know, I'm not concerned either about how much or how little a dealer makes on a deal.  I'm there to buy the product they have for the very least amount of money that I have to spend to get what I want. 

My current truck was purchased by me from a dealer that was six hours away from me.  I told him (once we got the truck price down to an acceptable number) that I will not pay $599 for Doc fees. He told me that those numbers are set by the dealership and printed on the sales order and cannot be negotiated away.  My response to him was that he should then deduct another $499 from the bottom line and name it whatever he wanted for additional discount.  He didn't really want to do that and I told him that would be the only way I would make the drive over and complete the deal.  The sales order showed that I paid a $599 Doc fee, but in reality, the extra $499 discount money caused it to be a $99 Doc fee, which I feel IS reasonable.

Agreed! ;D
 
xrated said:
Linda, the very FIRST thing you need to do is to emotionally DETACH yourself from this truck.  When you get emotionally attached to something, it's way too easy to pay too much.

Are you suggesting I "take a pill"? ;D ;D ;D  Just kidding of course.

What gave it away?  the butterflies??  Told you I wasn't much good at negotiating.  Which is why all of your comments here are so appreciated and welcomed.  I've looked up the KBB retail AND trade-in value numbers, and that information has given me more to consider, so thanks for those suggestions.  I guess ultimately it boils down to whether I'M happy or not with what I pay for the truck.  I've found that for these large purchases (well large for me anyway) if I leave a few hundred on the table to achieve my goal, then I have no regrets.  I'll admit, I'm not the type to have to drive a bargain to get what some would consider the absolute BEST bargain out of a dealer.  Just not me.  But I don't want to be completely stupid either, which is again why you'all have helped so much.  Part of my "happy with the deal" includes some intangibles that may not be of value to others.  I've had vehicles since 1971 and kept them an average of 6 years each, with a couple for more than 10 years -- the average gets skewed because of having had leased Jeeps that were traded after 2 or 3 years.  Have not been ultimately unhappy about any of those deals.

Once again, all the comments have armed with the info I needed to hear about negotiating for this truck.  I have to decide if I'm gonna contact them again with my rock-bottom offer and then tell them I'm on way over or wait to try to deal once I'm there.  Buying a vehicle off the internet is WAY new to me as is the long-distance issue.  They already came down $900 so it's not like they are ignoring me completely.  I just gotta decide what price I can be happy with, and then walk away if I can't achieve that.  Sound so simple!

Linda 

 
Dreamsend said:

This is sooooooooo close.  Honestly, this truck has EVERYTHING!!! I need plus much more since it has the highest luxury group pkg. which I would not get if I were to order a new truck, and it's even the RIGHT COLOR. 

and also...

I never in my wildest expectations thought I could find a used truck that I wanted - make, model, with the right tow pkg., axle ratio, 4x4, extended fuel tank etc. and was simply planning to order a new one within the next 6 month or so in order to get what I needed. 

and finally...

There may be a 700 mile RT road trip in the next couple days. 

The above quotes are what "gave it away".  Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with looking forward to getting a new/different vehicle, but if I can see your emotional attachment to the truck over the internet, the salesman is on to you like a bird dog is on a quail.  He is doing his job and trying to make the most money that he can possible make for both himself and the dealership....but mostly himself.

I would be really surprised if they aren't on course to make at least 5K on the deal at $36,000 asking price.  Secondly, he's already proven to you that he is a liar......remember when he told you that they NEVER negotiate their used vehicle numbers then called you back at $900 lower pricing.  There is one thing that I will not tolerate from a salesman, and that is when they lie to me.

When I interviewed with the Sales manager back in 2003 for the job of salesman at the Ford dealership that I was trying to get a job with....I flat out asked him during the interview..."Will I have to lie to a potential customer in order to do this job?"  He told me that not only do I not have to lie to do the job, that if he ever caught me lying to a customer, he would fire me on the spot.  I was totally prepared to walk out of the interview if he told me that I might have to lie a little or stretch the truth or whatever.  He hired me and we had a great working relationship, with both of us appreciating the fact that we were doing our jobs AND not having to be a shady car salesman or manager.
 
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