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Alpena Jeff

Alpena Jeff

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Posts
965
Location
Up North - Michigan
Good morning.
I'm looking for any forum members that have purchased a motorhome from MOT. Understanding the consignment process with MOT acting as liaison between buyer and seller, what can I expect regarding straight forward honest answers regarding MH condition? If my questions are specific will their replies be as well? I am in Michigan so cannot just jump in the truck as models arrive that are to my liking.  I will make the trip to inspect myself and seek out a local inspector if/when the time comes.
I assume price negotiations work as normal based on how bad owner wants to sell?
Any feedback is appreciated.
Thanks, Jeff
I have searched this site and did not find what I was looking for.  ;)
 
There is probably no good answer to that.  If it's a consignment, they don't own the coach and probably know little about it other than the obvious visible things. Nor are they likely to spend much time investigating for you, though a good sales guy would go look at things that area readily visible. Other than that, you would probably have to pay their service department to do an "inspection" of whatever you were concerned about.  So if you asked what was on the weight & tire placard, you could probably expect a reasonable  answer. If you ask a subjective thing like if the carpets are worn or dirty, that gets a bit more "iffy" because any sales guy is likely to view it on the positive side.
 
Consignments are tough.  Sometimes the reason it is on consignment is because the owner felt he could get more than Dealer trade or cash value.  Because the Dealer needs to make money, you are now negotiating with both the Dealer and the Seller, and the Dealer is not going to be honest or reveal margin with either party. 

Sometimes handsome consignment units are used to draw folks off the street, and the Dealer has no intention of ever selling it because margin is too narrow and the owner is stubborn.  I made an offer on one in CO and it was refused, but by fall it was marked down to less then my offer because the owner folded or they wanted to get rid of it for winter.

To give you an idea, I put one on consignment years ago at a local Dealer and they gave me a guaranteed price.  Once on the lot, they hit me every which way with offers to lower price and face reality, and I finally folded.  The new owner found my registration one day and called me to ask a question.  After an hour of talking, I found out he paid twice what we got!  I felt I got the shaft, and never told him how bad he got his. 

Unless you really are in love with a unit on consignment, I think the better deals are to be had by private owner or Dealer owned trades.

 
Appreciate the replys Gary and Mile High.
Got a jones for the Foretravel 320 cirrca 2002-2003. MOT seems to have a corner on that market. RV Trader has 1 by owner in my price window...<150k. No pics.
I have time...patience.
Jeff
 
You all have beat it into my brain that floorplan is paramount. I get it. Another is condition, an active pusher over a low mileage that has been sitting and maintenance records.
Side rad, retarder and usability with slides in.
Also an older higher quality coach over a newer lower quality.
As I plan to spend the winter months off grid someplace warm I require more than a 60 gal gray tank. Solar and battery bank to match is in my future.
That said, Foretravel hits all my boxes. Good solid coach and still in production from what I've read.
Please let me know if you think I'm heading down the wrong path. I will pay someone to fully inspect and test all systems with me onsite as I have no practical experience here...I am a sponge however.
I will be traveling with my bride and cannot afford to make a mistake. :-\
We are both very confident this is what we want to do for the next 5 years. We will likely sell the coach then and buy a place to escape winter once we figure out where!
Thanks to all who contribute.

Jeff
 
Because the Dealer needs to make money, you are now negotiating with both the Dealer and the Seller, and the Dealer is not going to be honest or reveal margin with either party.
Click to expand...

I not sure what you are suggesting. On a typical consignment sale, the owner sets a target price as well as a minimum acceptable price, and pays the agent a sales commission, usually about 10% of the sale price.  Obviously both the owner and the sales agent want the highest possible sales price, but that's no different than a dealer selling his own stock.

I don't know the specifics of MoT consignment contracts, though.
 
Gary [RVer Emeritus] said:
I not sure what you are suggesting. On a typical consignment sale, the owner sets a target price as well as a minimum acceptable price, and pays the agent a sales commission, usually about 10% of the sale price.  Obviously both the owner and the sales agent want the highest possible sales price, but that's no different than a dealer selling his own stock.

I don't know the specifics of MoT consignment contracts, though.
Click to expand...
  That's the initial lie you are told, yes. 

Now - No Dealer gives lot space for 10% of anything - ever, unless he is using it to draw crowds from the street and never intents to sell it until he is ready.

A simple scenario - The seller has a pristine coach and doesn't want to settle for trade value or cash price, so he consigns it.  Cash value 75K.  He wants 90K minimum, hopes for 100K.  Fine.  Dealer agrees to 90K + 10%, but puts it on the lot for 129k (to allow for "trade in" is the next lie).  A buyer shows up that really likes it, but his maximum offer is 110K.  Perfect right?  NOT... - the Dealer calls the seller and says he has an valid offer of 90k and in order to get his 10%, you are only going to get 81K tops.  If you agree, the Dealer makes 26% and you kick your feet and take your cash.  If you insist on 90k, the Dealer goes back to the buyer and refuses offer, countering with $119,995.  If the buyer takes it, the Dealer still makes 26%, the seller gets his minimum, and the buyer pays about 29K more for it than the seller was willing to take.  (keep in mind, the seller NEVER gets to see the sales contract, only the consignment contract).

Put this on RVTrader - Seller puts it up at 110K, buyer offers 100K, deal done, everyone happy except the Dealer down the street. :)

As a consignment buyer, you are battling a seller that already thinks his rig is worth more than others, and a Dealer that is going to make his money no matter what.  You are trying to negotiate both down - the proud seller and the greedy dealer.  If either the seller or dealer folds, you could make out alright, but usually only the Dealer makes out, the sellers gets less than he could have private sale, and the buyer pays far more than he could have private sale.

Had the new owner of mine not found my name in the glovebox and called me to chat, I would have never known how bad I got shaken down.  I didn't tell the buyer I would have sold it for 1/2 what he paid, there was no point.

 
If true, Sounds unethical if not criminal.
How long does the consignment company have control over the unit once the contract is signed typically?
Happy new year to all!
 
Mile High said:
  That's the initial lie you are told, yes. 

Now - No Dealer gives lot space for 10% of anything - ever, unless he is using it to draw crowds from the street and never intents to sell it until he is ready.

A simple scenario - The seller has a pristine coach and doesn't want to settle for trade value or cash price, so he consigns it.  Cash value 75K.  He wants 90K minimum, hopes for 100K.  Fine.  Dealer agrees to 90K + 10%, but puts it on the lot for 129k (to allow for "trade in" is the next lie).  A buyer shows up that really likes it, but his maximum offer is 110K.  Perfect right?  NOT... - the Dealer calls the seller and says he has an valid offer of 90k and in order to get his 10%, you are only going to get 81K tops.  If you agree, the Dealer makes 26% and you kick your feet and take your cash.  If you insist on 90k, the Dealer goes back to the buyer and refuses offer, countering with $119,995.  If the buyer takes it, the Dealer still makes 26%, the seller gets his minimum, and the buyer pays about 29K more for it than the seller was willing to take.  (keep in mind, the seller NEVER gets to see the sales contract, only the consignment contract).

Put this on RVTrader - Seller puts it up at 110K, buyer offers 100K, deal done, everyone happy except the Dealer down the street. :)

As a consignment buyer, you are battling a seller that already thinks his rig is worth more than others, and a Dealer that is going to make his money no matter what.  You are trying to negotiate both down - the proud seller and the greedy dealer.  If either the seller or dealer folds, you could make out alright, but usually only the Dealer makes out, the sellers gets less than he could have private sale, and the buyer pays far more than he could have private sale.

Had the new owner of mine not found my name in the glovebox and called me to chat, I would have never known how bad I got shaken down.  I didn't tell the buyer I would have sold it for 1/2 what he paid, there was no point.
Click to expand...
Interesting, what consignment dealer are we talking about?
Bill
 
Alpena Jeff said:
If true, Sounds unethical if not criminal.
How long does the consignment company have control over the unit once the contract is signed typically?
Happy new year to all!
Click to expand...

I remember the contract being 3 month increments, but as a seller I could pull it whenever I wanted.  There was some restrictions about trying to sell privately at the same time it was on consignment, but I don't remember what it was. 
 
No Dealer gives lot space for 10% of anything - ever, unless he is using it to draw crowds from the street and never intents to sell it until he is ready.
Click to expand...

Well, at some of them that's probably true. And also why some dealers don't make any real effort to sell consignment units, i.e. they make far more money off units they buy and sell on their own. Both the store and the salesman make more that way. A more ethical consignment dealer writes a fairer contract with the owner than that, but the owner/seller needs to look carefully at that contract to make sure he understands what the dealer can sell it for and who gets the funds. Obviously the owner wants a contract that says he gets the actual selling price less 10%, and not 10% of some predetermined price that may be less than the actual selling price.

I've heard of consignment contracts such as Mile High describes (a friend fell for it). That price was described as the "guaranty price", one the dealer would not go below. But it was also the max the dealer had to turn over to the owner after the sale, and the 10% commission also came out of that as well. If the dealer sold it for more, he indeed kept the difference. So yes, be careful and ask questions about the selling price, how much flexibility the consignment agent has on pricing, and how the funds are divvied up.

I don't believe that PPL Consignments works that way, but have no intimate knowledge of Motorhomes of Texas contract terms.
 
I have heard very little in the way of complaints from people who have actually done business with them. If you have sold 4,661 RVs in the last two years or over 6 RV every day, you are doing something right. I go to the outlet in Cleburne for parts and they are always busey.
I can't say about MOT but a friend was looking at a Newell and he didn't have any negative comments. I am kind of watching the 2001 Newell. I hope someone buys it SOON.
Bill
 
WILDEBILL308 said:
I am kind of watching the 2001 Newell. I hope someone buys it SOON.
Bill
Click to expand...
;) That's funny Bill! Can't help you though. Tooooo much bus for me. I have mild concerns about handling a 40. It's just new to me...that's all.
Thanks all for helping. I will likely refresh this thread from time to time in hopes of catching the eye of someone who has actually worked with MOT.
 
Alpena Jeff said:
;) That's funny Bill! Can't help you though. Tooooo much bus for me. I have mild concerns about handling a 40. It's just new to me...that's all.
Thanks all for helping. I will likely refresh this thread from time to time in hopes of catching the eye of someone who has actually worked with MOT.
Click to expand...
I  have never heard any negative about MOT.
I recommend you go drive as maney coaches as you can. Test drives are a great way to see how different coaches drive and ride. Don't just drive city streets or just freeway, mix it up. Once you get a little experience you will see there is little difference between 38 and 45' think about it it is only 7 feet. Look at some of the videos on youtube about driving and how coaches turne.
Bill 
 
We had several contacts with MOT when we were looking at late 90 Foretravels (exceptional coaches) and were treated well and would contact them any time in the future if needed. Have also met two of their customers who purchased Foretravels and they had great things to say about the whole experience.

Since the Foretravel factory is practically next door, I understand you can get the factory to do a complete PPI prior to purchasing. As to consignment vs dealer owned, I'd just ask whether they own the coach or have it on consignment and go from there. Pretty easy to determine what a fair value is. The coach we were looking at (a U320 36') had a 110 gal grey tank and 175 gal fuel. Great for boondocking. But, alas we went in a difference direction but may be back at some time for a U320 40' single slide unit.

 
WILDEBILL308 said:
I  have never heard any negative about MOT.
I recommend you go drive as maney coaches as you can. Test drives are a great way to see how different coaches drive and ride. Don't just drive city streets or just freeway, mix it up. Once you get a little experience you will see there is little difference between 38 and 45' think about it it is only 7 feet. Look at some of the videos on youtube about driving and how coaches turne.
Bill
Click to expand...
So go to a local dealer, ask to drive a couple coaches? We are not ready to buy until late fall for several reasons but they don't need to know that.
I really don't mind wasting sales guys time, after all...I was one! 8)
 
Gary [RVer Emeritus] said:
Well, at some of them that's probably true. And also why some dealers don't make any real effort to sell consignment units, i.e. they make far more money off units they buy and sell on their own. Both the store and the salesman make more that way. A more ethical consignment dealer writes a fairer contract with the owner than that, but the owner/seller needs to look carefully at that contract to make sure he understands what the dealer can sell it for and who gets the funds. Obviously the owner wants a contract that says he gets the actual selling price less 10%, and not 10% of some predetermined price that may be less than the actual selling price.

I've heard of consignment contracts such as Mile High describes (a friend fell for it). That price was described as the "guaranty price", one the dealer would not go below. But it was also the max the dealer had to turn over to the owner after the sale, and the 10% commission also came out of that as well. If the dealer sold it for more, he indeed kept the difference. So yes, be careful and ask questions about the selling price, how much flexibility the consignment agent has on pricing, and how the funds are divvied up.

I don't believe that PPL Consignments works that way, but have no intimate knowledge of Motorhomes of Texas contract terms.
Click to expand...

I would be interested to hear from someone that actually sold one through PPL.  Their lead in sounds exactly the same - 10% - agreed upon price - no charge for advertising unless we sell, etc.  Bridge loans, closing agents - cmon, that isn't a 10% operation :)
 
Bill and Debbie said:
We had several contacts with MOT when we were looking at late 90 Foretravels (exceptional coaches) and were treated well and would contact them any time in the future if needed. Have also met two of their customers who purchased Foretravels and they had great things to say about the whole experience.

Since the Foretravel factory is practically next door, I understand you can get the factory to do a complete PPI prior to purchasing. As to consignment vs dealer owned, I'd just ask whether they own the coach or have it on consignment and go from there. Pretty easy to determine what a fair value is. The coach we were looking at (a U320 36') had a 110 gal grey tank and 175 gal fuel. Great for boondocking. But, alas we went in a difference direction but may be back at some time for a U320 40' single slide unit.
Click to expand...
That is one good piece of info. Thank you Bill.
 
Mile High said:
I would be interested to hear from someone that actually sold one through PPL.  Their lead in sounds exactly the same - 10% - agreed upon price - no charge for advertising unless we sell, etc.  Bridge loans, closing agents - cmon, that isn't a 10% operation :)
Click to expand...
And this would be another good piece of info....
 
Alpena Jeff said:
So go to a local dealer, ask to drive a couple coaches? We are not ready to buy until late fall for several reasons but they don't need to know that.
I really don't mind wasting sales guys time, after all...I was one! 8)
Click to expand...
You arn't wasting his time he is helping you make an informed decision. ;)
Go to different places and spend some time, sit down and see how you like the layout/floor plan. More importantly how does your wife like the floor plan.  ;D
That is the most important part.
One outher important part is to see it with the slides IN. You want to be shure you can use it when you stop for lunch or a rest stop with the slides in.
Bill
 
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