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Author Topic: Heat Pump refrigerant  (Read 3513 times)

tarrco

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Heat Pump refrigerant
« on: January 14, 2017, 10:23:47 AM »
Does anyone know the correct refrigerant to put in basement heat/ac for a 2004 Winnebago Adventurer? Thanks all and Happy New Yr.
Cyril & Jackie Tarrant
Winnie Adventurer 37B 2004

thunderjet

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 12:47:13 PM »
It will be labeled But most likely R-22.
The OEM units had no charging ports so will need to be installed
Are you sure you need to recharge?
If cooling works but not heatpump may just need a reversing solenoid coil.

Good luck TJ

John Canfield

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 02:10:19 PM »
TJ is correct but what symptoms are you chasing?
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
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Bobmws

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 07:30:07 AM »
And be aware the heat output of a heat pump is somewhat marginal at temps below 40-45.
Bob & Vicki
Central Florida
2001 Keystone Tailgator Toy Hauler

tarrco

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 09:15:28 AM »
Thank you all. My heat and AC were working just fine till one day I turned the heat up with the thermostat and it just clicked and went dead. I checked and the fuse in the Coleman thermostat was blown. I checked for a short but found none. I replaced the fuse and tried again several times but all I get is a "click" but no heat or fan but the fuse no longer blows. People are telling me the problem is in the heat pump unit itself so I have a tech coming to check it. He wants to know the type of refrigerant.
Cyril & Jackie Tarrant
Winnie Adventurer 37B 2004

John Canfield

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 10:00:01 AM »
Problem could be the control board on the basement unit itself. There are some diagnostic lights on the board, service manual here. Did you check voltages on the thermostat? Here's a chart of what voltage should be on each lead (from my thermostat upgrade project.) Could also be the thermostat.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Our Horizon projects
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tarrco

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 07:28:18 AM »
Thanks John for that info. I will get my AC guy to check it.
Cyril & Jackie Tarrant
Winnie Adventurer 37B 2004

tarrco

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 11:29:52 AM »
Hi again, the tech got the heat pump going but it is only blowing cold air. The temperature outside today is 0 degrees celsius but it should still heat up right? Lots of refrigerant.
Cyril & Jackie Tarrant
Winnie Adventurer 37B 2004

Alfa38User

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 11:48:38 AM »
Quote
The temperature outside today is 0 degrees Celsius (32ºF) but it should still heat up right?

Nope!!! RV heat pumps do not work well much below 40º F. so you are expecting too much from that lowly heat pump.

In many cases with usual basement AC/heat pump models and the Coleman thermostat installed in Winni models , it should automagically switch to the furnace after 5-10 minutes when the the heat pump has not been able to raise the inside temperature quickly enough. The heat pump/AC fans may or may not continue to run along with the furnace when this happens. (This will depend on the particular model of thermostat but on MINE, the two sets of fans do not run simultaneously.)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 12:14:34 PM by Alfa38User »
Stu
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Mile High

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 11:58:13 AM »
I could hear my compressors shut down down around 40 - then cold air.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238

tarrco

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 12:57:45 PM »
Thank you all. Got my pump running but I guess you guys are right, temperature outside is too low. New residential heat pumps work as low as minus 20C.
Cyril & Jackie Tarrant
Winnie Adventurer 37B 2004

kdbgoat

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2017, 01:34:33 PM »
Thank you all. Got my pump running but I guess you guys are right, temperature outside is too low. New residential heat pumps work as low as minus 20C.

Know what you mean. The RV industry is way behind the times when it comes to developing and instituting newer technology. Look at the normal furnaces in these things, pretty much the same since the '60's. The RV industry's idea of new technology is remote controls for awnings, stabilizers etc. Except for the touch screens on those, it's still '60's technology. Capacitive touch screens are '60's technology while resistive touch screen are '70's technology. New touchscreens are back to capacitive technology, used in a completely different way. These are at least turn of the century.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 01:42:45 PM by kdbgoat »
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John Canfield

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2017, 06:53:32 PM »
Thank you all. Got my pump running but I guess you guys are right, temperature outside is too low. New residential heat pumps work as low as minus 20C.
They have defrosters for the condenser coil which permits them to operate in low temperatures.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
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WILDEBILL308

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2017, 07:36:51 PM »
The residential heat pumps use a medium outher than air to operate below 40*. Most have a fluid heat exchanger and the fluid, water /glycol solution is circulated through pipes underground to pick up some heat. Remember a heat pump is just a ac in reverse it is using the "waste heat" to heat your living quarters while cooling the outside.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
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Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
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John Canfield

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2017, 08:08:51 PM »
Not in the south, just a defroster.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
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WILDEBILL308

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2017, 09:36:39 AM »
Not in the south, just a defroster.
I am talking about the newer hi efficiency ones. I had never heard of a coil defroster. When the temps get below where the heat pump can pull enough heat out of the air my (House) system has a built in electric heating element for heat. In the coach it switches to gas heat.
Some RV ac units also have a heatstrip to give a little more heat.
Bill
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 10:07:21 AM by WILDEBILL308 »
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

Mile High

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 10:31:24 AM »
I am talking about the newer hi efficiency ones. I had never heard of a coil defroster. When the temps get below where the heat pump can pull enough heat out of the air my (House) system has a built in electric heating element for heat. In the coach it switches to gas heat.
You might be talking about commercial or industrial applications, but my residential Trane 2-stage variable speed VX20i heat pump is supposed to be the most efficient on the market and it uses a "defroster" like John says to thaw the coils when the temp drops.  Once the heat pump gives it up, the system switches to natural gas furnace.  Its fun to watch mine clear a snow drift around it after a good snow and the temps come back up.

Heres a youtube of a smaller unit in defrost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbiultu6a3U

I actually don't use it much these days because the cost of natural gas is low so its not cost effective anymore.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 10:35:20 AM by Mile High »
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2017, 10:47:59 AM »
You might be talking about commercial or industrial applications, but my residential Trane 2-stage variable speed VX20i heat pump is supposed to be the most efficient on the market and it uses a "defroster" like John says to thaw the coils when the temp drops.  Once the heat pump gives it up, the system switches to natural gas furnace.  Its fun to watch mine clear a snow drift around it after a good snow and the temps come back up.

Heres a youtube of a smaller unit in defrost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbiultu6a3U

I actually don't use it much these days because the cost of natural gas is low so its not cost effective anymore.
That doesn't look like it is very cost effective to spend energy to heat coils when the temperature is below where you can get enough heat for practical use.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

Mile High

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  • Lone Tree, CO
Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2017, 11:24:55 AM »
That doesn't look like it is very cost effective to spend energy to heat coils when the temperature is below where you can get enough heat for practical use.
Bill
It is what it is Bill - Obviously the defroster removes from the efficiency but it only runs long enough to clear the coils.  Just part of living in a 4-season state.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238

Charlie 5320

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2017, 01:46:36 PM »
That doesn't look like it is very cost effective to spend energy to heat coils when the temperature is below where you can get enough heat for practical use.
Bill
Residential heat pumps have always had a defrost mode since inception. Most have a thermister burried in the coil and when it reaches a certain temp, it switches to air conditioner mode to defrost the coils. I've seen coils with 4 to 8 inches of ice built up on them when the defrost board have failed. Not a pretty sight when you're a HVAC service man, let me tell ya. Most systems disable the heat pump at a certain out door air temp now. As a HVAC service tech for 25 years in a Northern state, I don't see why they even sell them here. They simply do NOT work below about 40 degrees. Ground thermal units work but are much more expensive to install, and takes years to make up for the installation cost. Electric heat may just be the cheapest heat now that gas has taken the leap in price.
2003 National Dolphin 5320
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John Hilley

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2017, 02:06:53 PM »
Propane is still cheaper than electric and we probably have the cheapest electric of anywhere here in North Dakota. I built a new house two years ago and payed $2,000 to add extra meter and etc. for off peak electric. Last year electric was twice as expensive as propane when propane was 99 cents/gal. Just filled this week for $1.36/gal, still way cheaper. They wanted $3,000 more to add heat pump to HVAC. I'm 74, don't think I would ever come out ahead.
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G
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youracman

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Re: Heat Pump refrigerant
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2017, 05:01:03 PM »
Thanks for the video link, Mile High.  It brought a chuckle............I sold/installed a goodly  number of residential heat pumps in the Houston area (mostly where folks had older "all electric homes" and there was no nat gas  on the property) and I always made sure to tell those customers to advise their neighbors not to call the fire dept when they saw the outside unit "smoking" .......... 'twas steam, of course.  :D  I'm sure 92GA can relate to that..............
Ed Sievers/Denver, CO
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