Tell Me about Pin Hitch vs. Gooseneck Please

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Dreamsend

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Aug 16, 2016
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614
Hi All

Okay so I been looking at travel trailers at dealers, online, and the big RV expo a couple of weeks ago.  And honestly, they are all uuuuuuugly. :( There are only about 6 actual floor plans, if one compares trailers of same length and I really think I want a bunkhouse model 30-33" so I can remove the bunks and have the space for storage, including inside protection for lithium bat., charge controller, inverter etc.  There is really no variation in floor plan if you choose a bunk house.  And whoever has come up with the idea of using all that dark gray and brown wall paper and even darker than dark wood with brown and black leather and materials in a small space should go back to design school and study harder!  And no, I don't want to pay $40,000 for something to have to turn around and prep all that wallpaper and prime and paint right off the bat!  Ditto for the wood.

So I started looking at options in fifth wheels with a HD truck.  Don't want anything over 33" cause the longer truck bed (6.75') (even with the FW overhang in bed) still puts me at the max length I think I want to deal with.  Still have not found anything online that gets me around the poor layout and bad interiors if I go with the bunk idea in a FW.  But, there are more options for used in FW than in trailers from what I've seen so far as at least older models used lighter woods.  Used still scares me however.

Anyway, a FW brings up new towing questions.  So, will you'all chime in on the following cause I'm confused about all the terminology which is unfamiliar to me so even reading manufacturer's stuff has me lost. 

1.  Which is recommended for better towing a FW under ~13-14,000 lbs. loaded-- pin hitch or gooseneck?

2.  Can anyone offer a primer on the variations I'm running into for pin hitches as there are many types out there?  Sliding?  Hidden ball? Puck-mounted, rail-mounted the B&W says its an attachment to their Turnover Ball system-whaaaaaat???  I've watched YouTube and seen goosenecks used with 5.5' truck beds making 90 degree angle turns.  Is that really true?

3.  Can most models be removed from the truck bed when not in use?  How much does the removable portion weigh?  What descriptive language or installation guidelines do I look for that let's me know a certain model is removable?

4.  Which is easier to get the FW hooked up too?  What brand model is easier for a geezera (female for geezer) to hook/un-hook? in your experience.

Anyway, you get the picture of how unfamiliar I am with the whole world of pin hitches and goosenecks.  I do understand I need something rated to handle the weight of the loaded trailer and a truck to handle the pin weight etc.  But any additional unambiguous, well-defined guidance is most appreciated. 

Linda

 
 
First, PIN HITCH ONLY!!!  Almost all FW manufacturers void the frame warranty if pulled with a gooseneck setup.  By this, I mean a post connecting the FW pin to a gooseneck ball.  This post puts a lot of torque on the pin box it was not designed to handle.  This is what you DO NOT WANT!!    http://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-and-Fifth-Wheel-Adapters/Convert-A-Ball/CAB-C5G.html

There are several hitches which mount to the gooseneck ball, and they are fine.  These include the Andersen Ultimate (my favorite), the B&W Companion and others.  They support the pin box the way it was meant to be connected.

A "standard" FW hitch mounts to rails installed into the bed of the truck.  Again, they come in several flavors.  In addition to the simple hitch, some are "SLIDERS" which can move the hitch further from the cab when needed.  This is a manual operation, usually when making sharp turns backing up.  The PULLRITE hitch does the same thing, but does it automatically.  There are SIDEWINDER pin boxes which do similar things.

Within these groups, some add air bags or other shock absorbing technology.

To completely remove an Andersen Ultimate hitch takes 5 minutes.  The steel version weighs 75# and the aluminum version is 37#.  The B&W Companion comes out quickly as well, but weighs considerably more.  It is about 200#, but comes out in two pieces.

Standard hitches mount on rails installed in the pickup bed.  The hitch is easily removed from the rails, usually as 2 pieces, but the rails remain in the bed.  Another step is required to get the rails removed, too.  These hitches all weigh 200# or more.

ALL hitches are easily removed, either from the gooseneck ball or from the rails.  The real question is if you can handle the weight of the pieces.

I hope this helps!
 
Hi Linda -

A 5th wheel hitch is actually easier to hitch and unhitch than a gooseneck (ball style) hitch.

As you back into the 5th wheel hitch, if you're a little bit off the V ramp at the rear of the hitch platform guides the trailer pin into place.  When it's properly positioned the front of the hitch stops the truck from backing any further and the jaws clamp shut, locking the trailer in place.  Raise the trailer jacks and you're ready to go.

Unhitching is the opposite - lower the trailer jacks to the ground until they take the trailer's weight, pull the lever that releases the clamping jaws on the hitch and drive the truck forward.

A gooseneck hitch doesn't guide the trailer into place.  You have to precisely position the hitch ball underneath the coupler, then lower the coupler onto the ball.

When you unhitch, you have to raise the front of the trailer enough to clear the ball before you drive out.

Peacher Gordon's right - avoid the post style adapters that let the trailer reach down to a gooseneck ball mounted at bed level.  It's like adding a pipe to a wrench handle to let you free a stuck nut - the longer the handle, the more twisting force you generate.  This is disastrous to trailer frames that aren't designed to withstand this extra force as the trailer pushes and pulls against the tow vehicle.

Anderson and B&W make gooseneck hitches that raise the ball on a platform up to the height of a 5th wheel hitch.  But why bother?  They're just as heavy and bulky as a 5th wheel platform and like all other goosenecks, require you to precisely position the ball under the coupler.

All platform hitches can be removed from the truck bed when not being used - it's just a matter of being able to manhandle the bulk and weight in and out of the truck.
 
Linda,

Gordon and Lou gave you good info on hitches.

As for the trailer itself. You said you were thinking of buying a bunk house and taking the bunks out to put in storage. If you want to buy new why not deciding which make of trailer you want first. Then get with the dealer and see if you can special order the trailer without the bunks. They may even have storage cabinets they can install instead of the bunks. If not, get the trailer without the bunks and install what ever you want.

If you are buying new, most dealers will work with you on floor plan and interior decor. I would think most dealers would like special orders. The RV is bought and paid for straight from the factory so the dealer doesn't have any inventory/stocking costs.

Just a thought so you know you're not limited to only what is on the dealer's lot.
 
Lou Schneider said:
Anderson and B&W make gooseneck hitches that raise the ball on a platform up to the height of a 5th wheel hitch.  But why bother?  They're just as heavy and bulky as a 5th wheel platform and like all other goosenecks, require you to precisely position the ball under the coupler.

All platform hitches can be removed from the truck bed when not being used - it's just a matter of being able to manhandle the bulk and weight in and out of the truck.


One correction to these statements - the Andersen is not "just as heavy and bulky" and does not require any "manhandling" to install and remove. 37 lbs...it only weighs 37 lbs. Almost anyone could lift it. I hang it on the garage wall between trips (on a couple of $2 L-brackets) - try that with any other hitch.


Lining it up side to side is no different than a traditional hitch - line up the ball and the hitch in the mirror, simple as that. It comes with a "funnel" of sorts that will allow you to be a couple of inches off. Lining up front to back takes some practice and I sometimes have to get out and check the alignment - this is where it takes a little more time to hitch up (along with lifting and lowering over the ball). Most of the time, however, I can judge it pretty well. Again, the funnel will help once you are close.


I've never used a traditional 5th wheel hitch but after a summer of using the Andersen, I am 100% satisfied with my decision. I'm not saying it's the right hitch for everyone but I wanted you to have accurate information from an actual user.
 
Hello Joe,

I'm very interested in the Andersen Ultimate Hitch, so thanks for your first-hand report. More below:

Joezeppy said:
One correction to these statements - the Andersen is not "just as heavy and bulky" and does not require any "manhandling" to install and remove. 37 lbs...it only weighs 37 lbs. Almost anyone could lift it. I hang it on the garage wall between trips (on a couple of $2 L-brackets) - try that with any other hitch.

Apparently it is so light it can be removed even by a skinny pre-teen girl, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMW-ynhTatA starting at 10:30 into the video.

Joezeppy said:
I've never used a traditional 5th wheel hitch but after a summer of using the Andersen, I am 100% satisfied with my decision. I'm not saying it's the right hitch for everyone but I wanted you to have accurate information from an actual user.

Can you tell us how many miles you traveled and how the roads were (great, so-so, bad)? Have you noticed any cracking or any erosion on the connection block (the one between the Andersen's ball and the trailer's pin)? Also, what about States that require you by law to have safety chains for any kind of ball connection (apparently that would include the Andersen)? These two points were raised in an Amazon review that many voted "helpful", so you can give us your take on it, I'd surely appreciate.

Thanks,
--
  Vall.
 
Typical 5th Wheel hitch vs Gooseneck hitch.

Yeah, I know a lot of horse and cattle trailers and some RV trailers use gooseneck hitches.  And they may be great. But if so, why do all the Semi-Tractor Trailers use what appears to be just like a standard 5th wheel hitch? 

Ron
 
Hi Vall - yah, love the video of girl removing the hitch. They have a great marketing department, don't they? I did actually make my wife and youngest daughter (both about 5'-1") pick it up and move it.  ;D


I just did a quick recap our of camping from last summer and came up with about 1,200 miles. I'd say about 1/3 of it on 4-lane interstates and the rest on 2-lane state highways in various conditions. I remember one stretch of State Rt 8 in the Adirondacks was particularly bad with the road surface consisting of patch over patch over patch. Overall, I think the ride is good. Again, I have never towed with a traditional 5th wheel hitch so I can't directly compare but there is no push/pull motion (I think it's typically called chucking) from the trailer. I have not seen any type of wear or stress on the adapter block.


When I talked to Andersen before I purchased, they mentioned (as does their website) that only 1 state requires chains (ID or IA, I think). Reading some other literature, though, I'm honestly not sure about some of the others, including my home state of NY. The discrepancy seems to come from the fact that it's marketed as a 5th wheel hitch but is indeed a ball mount. I decided to buy the chains. At first I thought I would use them but I don't. I just keep them in the trailer. They would honestly be a pain in the butt to hook up every time since the safety hooks in the truck are under the side panels of the hitch. If I'm ever questioned by the law, I'll deal with it at the time. With any luck, the officer would let me hook them up and let me go.  8)
 
Hi All - Thanks to All Responders

You'all were really helpful -- I don't feel so lost now.  Think I'm beginning to sort out the differences.  Watched the links that were supplied plus more videos I ran into.  I think I like certain aspects of each type - the Anderson Ultimate gooseneck and the straight pin hitch, so no clear path just yet.  The Anderson lightweight would be easier to remove, but the B&W Companion (and others) do seem better for ease of hooking.  I would guess an automatic slider is preferred.  And thank you Preacher Gordon once again, as I had previously watched the etrailer set-up you warn against, and now see how it differs from the others.  I'm thinking I probably don't have a pressing need that I can foresee right now for removing the hitch from the truck bed -- I do like things neat and uncluttered, but . . . that's really a far second place to safety and comfort of towing.  No way I'm gonna lift 75 or 100#, and the idea of carrying around an extra ~200# when using just the truck for back & forths is not too appealing either.  But, it looks like either probably has a potential to work safely and reliably, assuming all other capabilities are compatible. 
Had to modify my own words!  Forgot, the use of a "gooseball" does not mean a "gooseneck".  I'm still learning.

I'll keep following more about this on the forum, and try to find more reviews and experience write-ups on the web of those hauling Fifth Wheels.  The biggest problem now is deciding IF a fifth wheel is in my future.  Still haven't found anything that excites me - except of course some really nice 38 to 40' footers, but that's too much for me.  One exception, I did find a nice Grand Design Reflection bunkhouse I really liked that had all the necessary features, but the payload (CCC) was only 1230 lbs.  Not much for full-timing it, especially with a 600W or so solar set-up, water for boondocking, 60# propane, and you know "all the stuff like tools etc.. . . ".  Most fivers I've researched have 2000 to 2600 lbs. or so of CCC, which would be plenty for my needs I think.  Why is this one so skimpy?
Specs say UVW=8765
Hitch weight= 1525
GVWR = 9995

Oh well.

How do you keep a conniving little thief from removing either your gooseneck or standard hitch when your truck may be parked in the boonies for a multi-hour hike or other exploration?  Or do you just have to trust that the angels are watching?

Didn't mean to hijack my own thread!  But, did mean to thank you all sincerely for the helpful discussions.  Any additional thoughts welcome.

Linda
 
To throw another idea out there, I've heard a lot of good things about the Reese Goosebox: http://www.reeseprod.com/products/pin-boxes/goose-box/uW9rVuV4JAj75t!ZHQnotJoVbxIFMqvl

It replaces the factory pinbox on fifth wheel trailers and allows you to use nothing more than the gooseneck ball in the bed of your truck. Using this, there is no longer anything in the bed of the truck that you would have to remove.

The Reese Goosebox is even endorsed by Lippert and will not void the trailer frame warranty.
 
Hi Lone Star,

Thanks for the info on the Reese GooseBox. I just googled it and it seems to be a little more expensive than the Andersen Ultimate (approx. $1000 vs $700) but still doable. Overall, as you pointed, it would be even more convenient than the Andersen, and the Lippert approval is certainly a plus.

What worries me is this *very* negative review on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3KP47DY66S5G9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B007Q1F3NU#R3KP47DY66S5G9

So this guy's frame cracked due to a pothole and not only Reese failed to provide a replacement for the bent  Goosebox, but he had to have the frame repaired under his own insurance... Really worrying that both Reese and Lippert "goosed out" (pun intended) on their approval/warranty. But then, perhaps the review failed to provide all the facts (like, was his Lippert frame still under warranty, and what did Reese say to justify not honoring the Goosebox warranty).

Would love to hear more from people here having first-hand experience with the Goosebox.

EDIT: more info about Goosebox/Lippert failure, apparently by the same guy, on this Escapee forum post: http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=117361

Cheers,
--
  Vall.
 
Based on reading the review on RV network, I don't think the goose box was the problem.

1. The owner initially used a vertical kingpin to gooseneck adapter. Those are bad enough but he also had nearly 30,000 miles of towing with it in place.

2. After he realized his current adapter was bending the pin box of his trailer, he switched to the Reese goose box.

3. With the goose box installed, he hit a pot hole so larger that it caused his truck to actually go into limp mode.

4. Upon inspection of the trailer frame, he found a crack that already had rusted and another crack that had just formed. This tells me that the frame was already weakened by the previous adapter that was installed.

On his Amazon review, he titled it "Didn't keep my Lippert frame from breaking". This pin box did not break his frame. The frame was broken long before he installed it as evident by the rusted crack. My theory is that the added leverage caused by the Star Performance Adapter broke the frame of his trailer and he is blaming the goose box because it was attached to the trailer when total failure occurred.

 
Howdy Lone Star,

lone_star_dsl said:
Based on reading the review on RV network, I don't think the goose box was the problem.

Good thinking, now that I've re-read the negative review and post after reading your analysis, I have to agree with you: the issue probably wasn't caused by the Goosebox, and would probably have happened (perhaps in an even shorter time, and/or in a worse manner) if the poster had kept his previous Star Performance (eg, kingpin gooseneck) adapter.

Thanks,
--
  Vall.
 
As a long time hauler of horses & livestock with Gooseneck Trailers and a part time RV'er with the 5th Wheel plates this is my experience.
5th Wheel hitches are easier to hitch up than the Gooseneck hitch because of the location of the 2 different hitches.
Gooseneck ball and hitches are used on livestock trailers because the Gooseneck ball hitch system allows for more flexibility for maneuvering the ravines & gullies of back country ranch roads (if you can call them roads) when we are traveling out to gather cattle.  There has been places I have been where we have unloaded the horses for stretches of 'roads' I have been on and led them down the roads and back into the trailer when the 'roads' have smoothed out a bit.
The 5th Wheel plates do not allow for this 360 flexibility they only allow for up and down movement and not side to side.
I don't know why anyone would want to take their RV on such 'roads' for them to have to need to turn their pin hitch into a gooseneck ball hitch with the gooseneck ball attachment. 
It is true that the gooseneck balls can leave the bed of ones truck more useful because most of them can be made to disappear into the bed.
I always buy more hitch than I could possibly ever need.  If I only needed say a 12,000 pound hitch I'm buying the 24,000 pound rated hitch...why because in a wreck the 24,000 pound hitch just might stay together where the 12,000 pound hitch will not.
I always have way more truck than I need as well.  I won't buy a truck that is rated less than a 1 ton truck...again for the same reasons I buy the heavier hitch system. 
I realize that this is an old post but if my experiences can help those researching these topics then this is a good thing.
 
That sounds like a good explanation of the difference. Here is something I came across quote by accident (NOT INVOLVED) Yes I mean Accident

RVer had converted a 5'er onto a gooseneck by use of a brand name adapter that simply extended the pin down.. Well he was following his wife on the freeway when she suddenly spiked the brakes (Something ran out in front of her) he did as well and the pin box.. got pretzled.  I met him at a LOVE's where i'd gone (Arby's) For lunch.. While there we watched the owner of a brand new Cedar Creek 38' 5er take the rear cap off on the concrete bumper on the pump island. (OUCH) fund day for me since I got out if ti for under 10 bucks (And I got a sandwich too).

Best Ascii Drawing I can do of it
________ (pin box bottom)
|
|
| goose neck adapter BEFORE brakes


How it should have been done

_________
|  /
|/
|

The triangle brace would have saved him. but alas. He did not have one.. Thankfully the LOVE's had a mobile tech who was able to fix it and parking where he could leave it till the parts came in.

The poor guy with the ceader creek did not stop.  He just took off flapping in the breeze.
 
Another hitch worth looking at is the PullRite UltraLite hitch. Weighs around 52#'s. 
We had a post a couple of weeks ago and the discussion was about the Anderson or any hitch of this style pulling up on a Reese Gooseneck ball and becoming disconnected. Reese said under no condition should there be any vertical forces put on their ball assemble.
 
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