Yet another tow vehicle decision

Okay guys here is the deal. I have a 2014 Keystone Laredo 274rb TT. Love it. I don't travel often and mostly for work so the three times I have moved it I had it towed by a friend and then another time towed by a company. It wasn't too expensive and it saved me a headache.

But, the time has come to put my big girl pants on and do it myself especially since I plan to move around more next year. I can't be dependent on others forever. I have seen women driving big rigs in camps before with no issue. My mom used to drive our 25 foot class C when I was a kid and although she refused to ever back it up, we got places just fine without having to. Aside from the initial fear of being able to do it, I think like anything the more you do it the better you get and the more routine it is until it doesn't phase you.

Now on to the truck. I have done a TON of research, looked at specs and weights, and asked guys at work who have been towing campers and all sorts of things since before I was born. This is what I've got.

At 7800 combined shipping and carrying capacity (rated) I can easily tow with a 1/2 ton, even with a full crew cab and 4 wheel drive. The Toyota Tundra was my choice...it's nice looking, good features, reasonable pricing, and when I drove it it handled much better than the 1500 Silverado. I know the gas mileage isn't great but I'll handle it.

Ideally though I'd like a diesel because they're just more efficient. Yes the cost is higher but they're also stronger and I feel like I would feel better with the truck having more power than I needed. I've driven the f250 quite a bit and it's bulky but it's nice. I currently have a Ford Edge now so if I can stay in the family that would be great. A lightly used one is in my price range.

NOW THE QUESTION: ford is putting out a diesel option for the new f150 late this year. It will increase towing capacity a smidge (though no numbers yet) and it will still be an overall smaller vehicle than an f250 or similar.

So do I wait till the end of the year and (possibly) have to pay to have the camper moved one more time before I get my truck, or do I go with the monsterous f250 now, which is possibly going to be cheaper used than a brand new f150 later in the year.

Suggestions? Is more capacity really better/safer? Any other insight? Are you a woman who tows alone? Guys: does your wife help with the driving?

Thanks!

First, I am not a women, but can tell you the more truck you have the better.  I used to tow a 6,600 TT with a 1500 HD Silverado that was supposed to pull 10K without a problem.  That was as much as I would pull with a 1/2 ton.  At 7800, you will be better with a F250, it should not cost a lot more than the new F150 diesel as brand new models are usually more expensive the first couple years.  If in the future you travel through hills and mountains, you will be more comfortable. MHO.

RVRAC said:

First, I am not a women, but can tell you the more truck you have the better.  I used to tow a 6,600 TT with a 1500 HD Silverado that was supposed to pull 10K without a problem.  That was as much as I would pull with a 1/2 ton.  At 7800, you will be better with a F250, it should not cost a lot more than the new F150 diesel as brand new models are usually more expensive the first couple years.  If in the future you travel through hills and mountains, you will be more comfortable. MHO.

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That's exactly what I was thinking. it's possible Utah will be in my plans for august of this year, and I don't want to have any issues going up hills or more specifically going down them. The model tundra I want is rated at like 9100 I think. So that sounds like it wouldn't be a great match.

I pulled my current trailer with a 2013 Ram Quad cab with a 5.7 hemi. I loaded light to stay at or below 8200# to keep it right at the weight specs. I had no problems pulling at all. I had been passed (both ways) by semi's, driven in 25-30 mph crosswinds, had do do an emergency brake and maneuver when a car did a right hand turn in front of me on the highway at 55 mph, and the truck handled it nicely. I don't know what the specs on a Tundra are, but I'm sure they're close to the Ram. I do agree with RVRAC on the more truck you have, the better, but a carefully chosen Tundra should do you well. Your tongue weight could be as high as 1170# if the trailer is loaded to the max and you put a full 15% tongue weight on the truck. When shopping, pay particular attention to the payload listed on the yellow sticker when you open the driver's door. Make sure there's enough available payload to carry the trailer's tongue weight, weight of the hitch, and everything else you will be putting in the truck. I posted my opinion about diesels in another thread you started.

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,102070.0.html

Just read your reply to RVRAC where you stated "Utah". That changes things a bit. I've never towed out West, so were I you, I would listen to the advice given by those who have. East side if the Mississippi, I probably wouldn't balk at towing with a correctly spec'ed Tundra.

I agree, the mountains in Utah dictate a really powerful truck. Also if you get a bigger truck than you really need you will be able to upgrade your trailer in the future without upgrading the truck.

Kdb:  going out west does change it. That's where my big concern is. I definitely see the downside of the deisel price/upkeep wise. But, as an investment, I think long term when properly maintained they last quite a bit longer than a gas engine. My camper is generally not filled to the brim with items, I've purged most of my stuff since I've been full timing. In fact my pass through storage is mostly empty minus some tools and lube spray for my jacks and stuff. I am interested in taking it to a weigh station though to get a firm weight on it though. Just for my own knowledge.

Utah isn't for sure, but I would like to head west eventually, and of course don't want to up and buy a new truck when I decide to go.

I have never heard of the exhaust temp being an issue, but I guess it makes sense since the front of the camper is so close to the exhaust? Have you ever had/heard of a serious problem with that?

SeilerBird said:

I agree, the mountains in Utah dictate a really powerful truck. Also if you get a bigger truck than you really need you will be able to upgrade your trailer in the future without upgrading the truck.

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Agree! I love my TT but to be honest if I got something more long term job wise, I would want to upgrade to a fifth wheel. It would be nice to only incur the expense of a new camper and not a matching tow vehicle.

I really don't think you would mind having more truck than you need. It is a lot better than not having enough truck. In my ten years of hanging around this forum I have never heard anyone complain about having too big of a truck.

Exhaust gas temp is an issue close to the engine, not the tailpipe. When a diesel is working really hard, the exhaust gas temp rises and could get too hot, causing severe problems with the engine and turbo. With stock engines, that's probably not something to worry about, but when modified, it can be an issue.

kdbgoat said:

Exhaust gas temp is an issue close to the engine, not the tailpipe. When a diesel is working really hard, the exhaust gas temp rises and could get too hot, causing severe problems with the engine and turbo. With stock engines, that's probably not something to worry about, but when modified, it can be an issue.

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Oh haha good to know. Yeah I hadn't come across that in anything I've looked for. I'd say anytime you modify anything from the stock set up you might be in dangerous territory anyway.

Just putting these up here to show a 6.2 gasser can't handle mountains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upXsZIoR2VU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeSFP7gyjnk

If those guys had learned to use the "manual" feature of the transmission, they probably could have gone up another gear so they wouldn't be pulling that high of rpms. Yep, them gassers are gutless in mountains.

Here's some fuel for the fire:

https://heartlandowners.org/archive/index.php/t-57465.html

So seems like it's plausible with a gas engine. Yes, it's powerful and can work, but you're going to be pushing it pretty hard. I'd feel bad about doing that to a truck I just spent a ton of money on.  Diesel it is I believe  ;D
I'm also partial to the f250 bc I do a lot of driving in my edge, like 42,000 miles just this year, all done by me, and the car is so comfortable. And if having more truck is indeed better, f250 diesel seems like the way to go.

rvannie23 said:

So seems like it's plausible with a gas engine. Yes, it's powerful and can work, but you're going to be pushing it pretty hard. I'd feel bad about doing that to a truck I just spent a ton of money on.  Diesel it is I believe  ;D
I'm also partial to the f250 bc I do a lot of driving in my edge, like 42,000 miles just this year, all done by me, and the car is so comfortable. And if having more truck is indeed better, f250 diesel seems like the way to go.

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For me the gas vs diesel argument is a matter of the right tool for the right job. If you are towing a car and going up and down mountains then the diesel is the right tool, otherwise a gasser is more appropriate.

We tow up hill with our gas hemi.  We get very low mpg whilst doing so and the noise from our engine is hardly noticeable. You need to use the truck gearing appropriately. If very steep we could use 4wd low if necessary.

I have many conflicting thoughts in my head right now.

Too much truck (F250) is never a problem.  With just you as a passenger, most half tons should do fine.

A Diesel is certainly more powerful, especially in the mountains.  They get better fuel economy, but fuel is more expensive.  Diesels cost a bit more to maintain.  A good gas motor should do fine in the mountains towing 7800#.  Just do not get in a real big hurry.  Gas motors are a bit more daily driver friendly. Diesels like to run long trips, not grocery store runs.  Diesels cost an extra $8,000 up front.

The published tow ratings are basically advertising rubbish.  They assume base model, VERY lightly optioned, 2 passengers at 150# each, no cargo, nothing else in the truck except a full tank of fuel.  Here is a much better calculation.

A 7800# GVWR TT will have a hitch weight of 800# and 900#.  The WD hitch will weigh about 80#.  Let's round up for safety and assume the TT will place 1000# on the truck.  Now add your weight, any passengers, pets, tools and cargo carried in the truck.  YOUR truck must be able to carry that much weight, hopefully more.

On every vehicle since 2009, there is a yellow label on the driver door B pillar (where the door latches) which states the maximum weight of cargo and passengers shall not exceed  XXXX.  This is the payload for THAT truck as it left the factory.  Make sure any truck you buy has a number that exceeds your needs.  It  should not be hard to find, but there will be trucks that do not meet this basic criteria.

My personal preference is to buy used.  There are lots of 2014 and newer F150, F250 and Tundra on the market that have been well treated with low miles and still under warranty that can save you thousands compared to new.

I hope there is at least one bit of wisdom from my rambling that helps.  Remember, it is YOUR choice, not ours!

Enjoy the search!

The F-150 Diesel won't be out until late in 2018 model year.
I would go with a used F250 diesel too, I have towed fairly large trailers with a F150 and it works pretty hard.

My point is that someone stating "you have to have a diesel" as a statement of fact, when it isn't a fact. How many Class A gassers run those same mountains pulling a more weight than a pickup and trailer. The way one drives is akin to dirt biking-If you have a two stoke, run it at high revs to stay in the powerband, if four stroke, go a gear up and keeps the revs lower in it's powerband. Two stroke compared to a gasser and four stroke compared to a diesel. One must also realize there are folks out there that will have others so worried about weight and power that they start thinking they need a 1 ton diesel dually just to go to the store for 20# bag of dog food.

It seems to me that gas vs. diesel is way to simplified to be meaningful.  The important information lies in the horsepower, torque, rpms, transmission, and the gear ratio that impacts these.  It also seems that many of the remarks being made about gas engines are nearly 10 years out of date as at least one manufacturer now uses new engine technology, that along with gearing in tow/haul mode, is very suited to towing in the mountains - up and down. Need I mention the truck I'm talking about?  And the people making the definitive statements have never driven/towed with newer gas engines/transmission, so their experience is only relevant for older technologies. Diesels are more expensive up front (on a new vehicle, about $7000.00), more expensive to maintain, and fuel is more expensive.  They reportedly don't get better gas mileage than some newer gasoline engine tech per actual users.  Read the posts about mountain towing by actual users of eco-boost F150s which overwhelming state they are happy and note that it is a beast of an engine.  I'm not saying ALL gasoline engines being offered will compare favorably with diesel, but at least one does, and it should figure into any statements being made nowdays.

I guess I should add that whichever choice, it must be capable of safely and reliably handling the payload and towed weights that are expected.  In some cases, this may necessitate diesel, just like sometimes it necessitates DRW vs. SRW.

To the OP, you will find that looking at truck forums where people post about their actual experience towing in the mountains with late model F150s, F250s (and equivalents, and paying attention to what engine and gear ratio they have) will provide you with some first-hand information that is based on recent technologies vs. outdated ones.  Just use Google search and you'll find lots.

As has been said already, the decision is yours of course, based on your current or planned future needs.  I'm also looking to decide between an F150 eco-boost or a F250 diesel (both suitably equipped for towing), and trying to pin down current vs. future needs, so am not unfamiliar with your conundrum and information about both. 

Linda

There certainly is tons of info out there spec wise and even more in regards of actual user experiences which I have found helpful. I do agree it's more complicated than diesel vs gas but I think in general, without diving so far into specs that you go crazy, the diesels tend to be on the heavy duty side.

I do drive quite a bit, long distances especially, and so diesel engines do appeal to me. Right now I drive from east MS to San Antonio TX pretty regularly, once or twice every couple months. If my plans for Utah come through id be hauling from San Antonio, set up, and then probably take a couple trips (without the camper) to Tahoe in CA and Oregon. This year alone I put 40,000 miles on my car...so longevity is something I'm interested in. I think diesels provide that. I don't mind the extra expense in caring for an engine that I know will carry me through many years. A lot of people haul with older diesels that they have maintained and have no issues even at 100k+ miles.

Waiting to see what plans get solidified and then I'll have to make a choice. Agreed that used is better. I bought my current car brand new because I was naive and excited to buy my first car without my parents help...and now that that's faded I'm happy to go used. Thanks for everyone's help.

Linda: I will definitely look more intensely at the gas mileage newer engines are putting out. That seems like it could be big factor

Kdb: lmao at your dog food comment. I agree with that! People get really insane about towing specs.