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Author Topic: Yet another tow vehicle decision  (Read 4049 times)

rvannie23

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2017, 05:37:42 PM »
Linda,

Great explanation! So it seems that the tow haul mode for the most part adjusts the engine for you to optimize power. trailer breaking is something I am working on learning how to accomplish, but I realize that there is some involvement in towing other than just steering the truck in the right direction. I'm sure I'll get it. A manual truck is absolutely not an option for me as I don't think it's wise to learn stick shift, learn to haul, and drive in unfamiliar terrain all at once.

Over heating  seems to be an issue when you try and over exert the truck. Mash on the accelerator, try and fly up the hill etc. or maybe if the grade was particularly steep. I haven't seen many complaints about it on some of the other threads and other websites. I  have never heard that about the same speed up and down the hill but I'll remember it.

If you ever see me pulled over on a scenic pull out with steam coming out of my engine you can add "hysterically crying" to forlorn.
2014 Laredo 274rb TT
2015 Duramax
FL - MS - TX

BIG JOE

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2017, 06:17:51 PM »
Linda,

Great explanation! So it seems that the tow haul mode for the most part adjusts the engine for you to optimize power. trailer breaking is something I am working on learning how to accomplish, but I realize that there is some involvement in towing other than just steering the truck in the right direction. I'm sure I'll get it. A manual truck is absolutely not an option for me as I don't think it's wise to learn stick shift, learn to haul, and drive in unfamiliar terrain all at once.

Over heating  seems to be an issue when you try and over exert the truck. Mash on the accelerator, try and fly up the hill etc. or maybe if the grade was particularly steep. I haven't seen many complaints about it on some of the other threads and other websites. I  have never heard that about the same speed up and down the hill but I'll remember it.

** keeping the "Rig" in the right gear, at the right RPM's to keep the engine in it's Power Curve*.. will prevent Over Heating.. to a Great degree.

If you ever see me pulled over on a scenic pull out with steam coming out of my engine you can add "hysterically crying" to forlorn.

YES Linda gave you a GREAT Tutorial on the Nut's & Bolts of Towing.. No Doubt.

I didn't wana go there.. until you knew what Year, Make and Model of truck you are going to buy..  :)

* The Power Curve is where the Horsepower and Torque ratings Peak. Within those peaks is where you want to keep the engine RPM's at, using the gears.. when pulling hills and grades. The Power Curve is Engine Specific, to Year and Make. Simply Put.

Again.. don't know all that yet (?), when we do, there are many "Hints" that can be passed a long, to make your Learning Curve a little easier to go around ? (yes, a Pun) ;) ;D

 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 10:40:13 PM by BIG JOE »
Joe

Tow an 016 29RS "Reflection" 5r w/Trailair pin box...with a 2012 Ford DRW, F-350, 4x4, Loaded de-Blinged Lariat CC, 6.7 Diesel.. Wife & I, Beck & Sheeka the Dogs.. And as of 5-17.. Lizzie, the Kitten in Training.

rvannie23

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2017, 12:39:53 PM »
So I'm looking at the 2500 Silverado WT, with trailering package, but they are showing me a 6.0L V8 gas engine. 360 HP 380 Torque. Of course the salesman is adamant that it won't be an issue with a 13,000# towing capacity but I'm still not sure. The drop in torque is so drastic from the deisel model. Any thoughts?
2014 Laredo 274rb TT
2015 Duramax
FL - MS - TX

gwcowgill

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2017, 03:40:37 PM »
The 6.0 Chevy engine is a very good engine. We have a van with the 6.0 that has well over 300,000 miles and still runs strong even though the body doesn't look good. I also had a Class B MH with the 6.0 and we towed a Honda CRV behind it and had no problem in the mountains. I personally like the diesel but, the Chevy should tow your trailer without a problem. The last trailer I towed was a 5th wheel with a 3500 Dodge with the Cummins diesel. There is a lot of 2500 Chevys with the 6.0 towing some pretty big trailers.
2009 Bounder 36B, 2014 Honda CR-V, various grandchildren when school is out. KG4LHS
2014 Honda CRV Toad,
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Toad

BIG JOE

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2017, 04:03:23 PM »
So I'm looking at the 2500 Silverado WT, with trailering package, but they are showing me a 6.0L V8 gas engine. 360 HP 380 Torque. Of course the salesman is adamant that it won't be an issue with a 13,000# towing capacity but I'm still not sure. The drop in torque is so drastic from the deisel model. Any thoughts?

I'm a Diesel Fan, so you know where that would go.  ;)

But... my Neighbor bought a new F-250, 4x4 Super Duty (= GM  2500 ?) with the Big gas engine. Pulls a 24' Jayco, Jayfeather Select TT with it.

In His Words: It just doesn't Have It.. in the Hills. It's always Shifting up & down.

( the Horsepower & Torque factors ?)

Jus' Say'n.  :)

 
Joe

Tow an 016 29RS "Reflection" 5r w/Trailair pin box...with a 2012 Ford DRW, F-350, 4x4, Loaded de-Blinged Lariat CC, 6.7 Diesel.. Wife & I, Beck & Sheeka the Dogs.. And as of 5-17.. Lizzie, the Kitten in Training.

rvannie23

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2017, 04:43:08 PM »
I'm a Diesel Fan, so you know where that would go.  ;)

But... my Neighbor bought a new F-250, 4x4 Super Duty (= GM  2500 ?) with the Big gas engine. Pulls a 24' Jayco, Jayfeather Select TT with it.

In His Words: It just doesn't Have It.. in the Hills. It's always Shifting up & down.

( the Horsepower & Torque factors ?)

Jus' Say'n.  :)


I knew already looking at those numbers I was like ehhh up a hill though? A BIG hill?? Probably not. Not sure why the sales guy is so intent on it. It's a bigger sale with a diesel.
2014 Laredo 274rb TT
2015 Duramax
FL - MS - TX

grashley

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2017, 05:24:34 PM »
Did the dealer have a similar truck with a diesel in stock??  If not, there is your answer.  Or there may be a big bonus for selling left over 2016 trucks.  The reason is likely in SALESMAN'S best interest.
Preacher Gordon
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS - not yet received
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Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

sadixon49

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2017, 08:47:35 PM »
I've looked at these gas vs diesel debates and heard that if you buy the diesel you'll get your money back when you sell. I've always thought, yea right, no way you're going to get 8 to 10 K$ back in 5 years. Then while thinking of this for awhile I came up with a small experiment. First I checked Chevy.com and found that a diesel adds $7800 to a 2500HD. Then I checked Cars.com for 4 to 5 year old Chevy 2500HDs, 10 with gas, 10 with diesel. Surprisingly the price difference as listed was exactly $7800, $28300 for gas as listed, $36100 for diesel. So you do get your money back with a diesel.
steve
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rvannie23

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2017, 07:18:09 AM »
Did the dealer have a similar truck with a diesel in stock??  If not, there is your answer.  Or there may be a big bonus for selling left over 2016 trucks.  The reason is likely in SALESMAN'S best interest.

My thoughts exactly. It was actually a 2017 model but he was really forcing the issue that a diesel was totally not needed. I do think he make have been under the gun to move some merchandise. I did tell him I wanted lightly used, preferably, to which his response was people keep their chevys for 10 or more years because they are excellent cars. Lol. I might go to a different dealership. I'm not the pitch type especially when I know what I want.
2014 Laredo 274rb TT
2015 Duramax
FL - MS - TX

rvannie23

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2017, 07:19:56 AM »
I've looked at these gas vs diesel debates and heard that if you buy the diesel you'll get your money back when you sell. I've always thought, yea right, no way you're going to get 8 to 10 K$ back in 5 years. Then while thinking of this for awhile I came up with a small experiment. First I checked Chevy.com and found that a diesel adds $7800 to a 2500HD. Then I checked Cars.com for 4 to 5 year old Chevy 2500HDs, 10 with gas, 10 with diesel. Surprisingly the price difference as listed was exactly $7800, $28300 for gas as listed, $36100 for diesel. So you do get your money back with a diesel.


Agreed. I never hope to really recover anything on my vehicles because I usually put a lot of miles on them which I found makes them depreciate even faster.  That's why used in this situation seems like a good idea, the hit won't be so bad. You definitely still pay that deisel price with a used vehicle though.
2014 Laredo 274rb TT
2015 Duramax
FL - MS - TX

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2017, 09:44:18 AM »
Quote
So I'm looking at the 2500 Silverado WT, with trailering package, but they are showing me a 6.0L V8 gas engine. 360 HP 380 Torque. Of course the salesman is adamant that it won't be an issue with a 13,000# towing capacity but I'm still not sure. The drop in torque is so drastic from the deisel model. Any thoughts?

Torque vs Hp is mostly misunderstood, even within the gearhead community. There is a pervasive notion that more torque is more important than more horsepower, but that is way oversimplified and often just plain wrong.  A 360 hp gas engine will pull/push/carry exactly as much as a 380 hp diesel, regardless of torque values.  Hp = torque * Rpm/5250, so the higher torque of the diesel allows it to operate at lower rpms to produce the same amount of power. If the diesel has twice as much torque for the same Hp, then it runs at half the Rpms to produce the same Hp.

Therefore the noticeable difference between the gas & the diesel (besides price) is the rpm at which the full rated horsepower is available.  That gives the diesel a feeling of more immediate power, i.e. more responsive to heavy demand. It also means that a diesel does its work at lower Rpms, so suffers less friction wear on internal moving parts. It also means that drivers averse to hearing the gas engine "scream" at higher rpms will be more comfortable about using the full Hp.  But if the gas and diesel have the same rated Hp, the available power will be the same.

All that said, I like the diesel for its low end performance, which is ideal for towing or carrying heavy loads. Whether it's worth the extra money (even assuming you get it back eventually), is a tougher question. The 6.0L gas V8 is still adequate for the task, so getting the diesel is a discretionary expense.

This article is helpful in comparing the 6.0LV8 with the Duramax diesel:
http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/0712dp-chevy-duramax-lmm-60l-vortec-ly6-gas-engine/
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 09:54:16 AM by Gary [ RVer Emeritus] »
Gary
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

gwcowgill

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2017, 09:49:21 AM »
Thanks Gary, I was about to post something similar when I saw your post, The diesel is usually good for more miles but the newer gas engines are really going well into some really high mileage numbers. The only thing replaced on the 6.0 in the van has been a waterpump in 300,000+ miles.
2009 Bounder 36B, 2014 Honda CR-V, various grandchildren when school is out. KG4LHS
2014 Honda CRV Toad,
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Toad

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2017, 09:56:47 AM »
Yeah, the gas V8 should easily run 200k miles and many will go higher. The light duty diesels used in pick-ups often don't do any better than that anyway, but are typically much more expensive if any major repair becomes necessary.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

BIG JOE

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2017, 12:11:42 PM »
Torque vs Hp is mostly misunderstood, even within the gearhead community. There is a pervasive notion that more torque is more important than more horsepower, but that is way oversimplified and often just plain wrong.  A 360 hp gas engine will pull/push/carry exactly as much as a 380 hp diesel, regardless of torque values.  Hp = torque * Rpm/5250, so[ the higher torque of the diesel allows it to operate at lower rpms to produce the same amount of power. If the diesel has twice as much torque for the same Hp, then it runs at half the Rpms to produce the same Hp.]

Agreed. But I don't think it's "Just Plain Wrong". (I'm a Gearhead ? ;))

It's that Low End Grunt (torque) that lets a Diesel accomplish any given work task, at a lower RPM... reducing high end RPM Wear & Tear.. in, and for.. The Long Term ?

Horsepower (RPM's) gets us up to Speed. Torque keeps us there, without having to change gears as often.

 ;) :)
Joe

Tow an 016 29RS "Reflection" 5r w/Trailair pin box...with a 2012 Ford DRW, F-350, 4x4, Loaded de-Blinged Lariat CC, 6.7 Diesel.. Wife & I, Beck & Sheeka the Dogs.. And as of 5-17.. Lizzie, the Kitten in Training.

RVRAC

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2017, 02:06:04 PM »
I had a 2500 Silverado 6l gas and now a 3500 RAM diesel.  Will never go back. Night and day when rving specially long distance.
2017 Leprechaun 311 FS
Toad: 2016 Jeep Patriot
American Dolly
Home: WI
Snowbird 6 months/yr.

kdbgoat

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2017, 05:00:10 AM »
I'm a Diesel Fan, so you know where that would go.  ;)

But... my Neighbor bought a new F-250, 4x4 Super Duty (= GM  2500 ?) with the Big gas engine. Pulls a 24' Jayco, Jayfeather Select TT with it.

In His Words: It just doesn't Have It.. in the Hills. It's always Shifting up & down.

( the Horsepower & Torque factors ?)

Jus' Say'n.  :)

 

Your neighbor needs to learn how to drive it. Tell him to read his owners manual, especially the part about using the"manual" selection of the transmission.
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2016 Leprechaun 319DS

BIG JOE

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2017, 09:01:21 AM »
Your neighbor needs to learn how to drive it. Tell him to read his owners manual, especially the part about using the"manual" selection of the transmission.

Jus' Say'n  :)  what had been said, while stand'n 'round, lean'n on bed rails, talk'n 'bout trucks.

He's an OTR driver for FedEx.

Gas or Diesel...All are Good engines. All have their Plusses & Minuses. It's all what Floats yer Boat, for a good number of reasons ?

 ;) :)   



 
 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 09:04:33 AM by BIG JOE »
Joe

Tow an 016 29RS "Reflection" 5r w/Trailair pin box...with a 2012 Ford DRW, F-350, 4x4, Loaded de-Blinged Lariat CC, 6.7 Diesel.. Wife & I, Beck & Sheeka the Dogs.. And as of 5-17.. Lizzie, the Kitten in Training.

lynnmor

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2017, 09:17:41 AM »
Quote from: Gary [ RVer Emeritus

Therefore the noticeable difference between the gas & the diesel (besides price) is the rpm at which the full rated horsepower is available.  That gives the diesel a feeling of more immediate power, i.e. more responsive to heavy demand. It also means that a diesel does its work at lower Rpms, so suffers less friction wear on internal moving parts. It also means that drivers averse to hearing the gas engine "scream" at higher rpms will be more comfortable about using the full Hp.  But if the gas and diesel have the same rated Hp, the available power will be the same.



Agree with your post except the "friction wear."
Consider that the diesel with twice the torque and half the RPM, has twice the cylinder pressures, bearing loads and transmission loads.  While friction increases with speed, the lower pressures in a gas engine should be considered.  It all comes down to the driver believing that the low RPM is better because of the sound.

rvannie23

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2017, 08:38:13 PM »
Ended up with a 2015 2500 duramax.   ;D
2014 Laredo 274rb TT
2015 Duramax
FL - MS - TX

BIG JOE

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2017, 09:30:13 PM »
Ended up with a 2015 2500 duramax.   ;D

 ;) :) Congrats to ya !!!
Joe

Tow an 016 29RS "Reflection" 5r w/Trailair pin box...with a 2012 Ford DRW, F-350, 4x4, Loaded de-Blinged Lariat CC, 6.7 Diesel.. Wife & I, Beck & Sheeka the Dogs.. And as of 5-17.. Lizzie, the Kitten in Training.

grashley

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2017, 05:25:32 PM »
GREAT!  And you found a used one the dealer declared did not exist!!!!

PICS!  We want PICS!!
Preacher Gordon
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS - not yet received
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

RVRAC

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2017, 10:12:13 PM »
Congratulations!  You won't regret it.
2017 Leprechaun 311 FS
Toad: 2016 Jeep Patriot
American Dolly
Home: WI
Snowbird 6 months/yr.

rvannie23

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2017, 03:33:28 PM »
GREAT!  And you found a used one the dealer declared did not exist!!!!

PICS!  We want PICS!!


Yes I did! Had to drive a couple hours to a different dealer is all. Apparently the previous owner purchases a new truck every few years. Go figure. But well loved and clean bill of health. I'm very happy with it. There is also an auxiliary fuel tank installed which I wasn't excited about at first but now I'm very happy with.
2014 Laredo 274rb TT
2015 Duramax
FL - MS - TX

grashley

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2017, 07:35:10 PM »
GREAT LOOKING TRUCK!!!

I drove 200 miles one way for mine.  Well worth the trip!
Preacher Gordon
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS - not yet received
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

OutdoorFT

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2017, 12:36:02 AM »
Nice truck! Should haul what you need, no problems!
Future Fulltimer

2011 F350 Lariat CCLB SRW
No RV yet!!

rvannie23

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2017, 09:07:36 PM »
Update! Finally made the maiden voyage now that I've had the truck a few months and have gotten used to the monster. Not far, just about 30 miles of back roads, into town, abandoned parking lot to practice backing up, 4 way stops and lane changes, and then onto the interstate and into a truck stop and then back to camp. Overall I barely felt the camper back there. The truck performed incredibly and handled so well. A couple 18 wheelers flew past me on the highway and I never felt the trailer sway or pull or anything. It was also a fairly windy day and I never noticed any movement. So happy I went with the diesel.
2014 Laredo 274rb TT
2015 Duramax
FL - MS - TX

jackiemac

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2017, 12:22:25 AM »
Fantastic. Here's to your next adventure 😁
Jackie n Steve - Happy Scottish Travellers

2017 Heartland Sundance 288rls
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BIG JOE

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Re: Yet another tow vehicle decision
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2017, 08:32:33 AM »
 :)) it's always good to have Enough Truck. Gad things are working out for you !
Joe

Tow an 016 29RS "Reflection" 5r w/Trailair pin box...with a 2012 Ford DRW, F-350, 4x4, Loaded de-Blinged Lariat CC, 6.7 Diesel.. Wife & I, Beck & Sheeka the Dogs.. And as of 5-17.. Lizzie, the Kitten in Training.

 

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