Yet another tow vehicle decision

EGT (Exhaust gas temps) should not be a problem if you are within the towing capacity of the diesel truck. My old Dodge 5.7L Cummins would never exceed the EGT unless I overloaded the trailer and even then you just reduce throttle and it would stay within specs. The newer diesels have more torque and HP. There is never such a thing as too much truck so go with what you feel comfortable with and fits your pocketbook. Get out and enjoy that RV.

BTW, my old Dodge was chipped so you could easily push the EGT with a Combination on the trailer.

I can't argue against "more is better", but at some point "sufficient" is, well, sufficient. And there are reasons for having a less brawny truck too, meaning towing isn't the only consideration.

With a trailer GVWR of 7800, which implies a tongue weight in the 800-950 range, there are half ton models that will have the capacity to handle that well. Get past the generics and look at the individual truck specs for both tow capacity and Payload (Cargo Capacity). If those are sufficient with some margin to spare, you need not worry about having "issues".

As for the Tundra, it has the basic capability to handle that trailer, but you have to watch the specifics of the configuration. By the time you add the nice cab and sundry features, you may find the payload and towing capacity has shrunk substantially. The numbers in the brochures do not apply to any and all Tundras and the range is broad. Some Tundras are as low as 6800 lbs towing.  Max payload is calculated by subtracting the truck curb weight (+ driver weight) from GVWR, so adding a bigger cab or options will increase curb weight while GVWR remains the same.

Modern gas engines are good for 200k or more miles, so I don't think durability vs the small truck diesels need be a major concern for most owners.. The diesels have expensive parts that are likely to need replacement in the first 200k miles as well, so it's not a given that they are more durable. Diesel injectors and fuel pumps typically die long before the engine block needs a rebuild. Alternators, starter motors, radiators and such last about the same regardless of gas vs diesel.

So the tundra with the full crew cab, with 4wd, and the platinum edition which has all the creature comforts one could ask for, does have a reduced capacity from the regular cab base model. Of course. But even with the additions it still has the capacity to handle the trailer. Everything I own, which isn't much since I have a sticks and bricks house to keep seasonal clothing and other stuff that just qualifies as storage items, is in the trailer. So I don't expect to fill the bed with tons of items. I have some camping chairs and that's about it. The truck specs assume two 150 pound passengers and a full tank of gas. I'm 130 but let's say 150 since I eat burgers and fries on the road  ;D that still leaves me some wiggle room weight wise. An extra 150 may not be much, but i think it helps off set how the tow ratings are set. I could be wrong, that's just how I see it.

Is hte tundra sufficient? Yes. More than enough truck to haul the camper. And there's lots of user evidence online to support that. People who pull heavier trailers with the tundra and say it handles great. But if I go out west I would be concerned climbing steep grades, and descending, with the tundra.

As was already mentioned, a possible trailer upgrade to a 5th wheel is possible in the next couple years. So it would be nice to have the truck to support it. On the other hand, the tundra is a more affordable vehicle and I could probably swing trading it in a couple years as well. It's a tough call.

I'm searching for some threads that deal with towing out west to see people's opinions.

Can anyone tell me what exactly effects how much sway you get when passed by a semi or a high cross wind? Is it the power of the engine basically propelling the camper and truck in the forward direction or is it the weight of the truck in relation to the trailer or both? Does that make sense?

I would recommend your decision be made based on how much you'll be towing your trailer.  If less than 25% of the trucks use is towing, you should  strongly consider the 1/2 Ton gas truck.  Many of them are capable and will do the job you need to do.  If you're going to use the truck mostly for towing, the 3/4 Ton would be a solid consideration, especially if you're going to be in the Mountain West much of the time. 

I've towed with both.  The 1/2 Ton gas truck rides better, gets better fuel economy when not towing and is cheaper to buy and maintain.  The Diesel 3/4 Ton is a dream to drive while towing.  Lots of power, much quieter when pulling hills.  It's just a much more enjoyable experience. 

Good Luck

rvannie23 said:

Can anyone tell me what exactly effects how much sway you get when passed by a semi or a high cross wind? Is it the power of the engine basically propelling the camper and truck in the forward direction or is it the weight of the truck in relation to the trailer or both? Does that make sense?

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The weight of the truck vs trailer is only a small part of it. My opinion- the length and height of the trailer have the most effect. If pulling a trailer full of steel weighing 10k# and travel trailer weighing 10k#, the wind wind from passing semi's and also normal crosswinds will have more effect on the camper than the flat loaded trailer. The "sail effect" is what gets you. If hit by a hard crosswind, the weight difference will then start affecting the ability to handle the sway. The wheelbase and track width of the tow vehicle plays a pretty good part in it too. The longer the wheelbase and wider the track, the more stable it will be. Having the correct tongue weight and a weight distributing hitch that has integral sway control built in also helps control the sway when it happens. The stiffness of the tow vehicle's suspension also has a part in it.

rvannie23 said:

Can anyone tell me what exactly effects how much sway you get when passed by a semi or a high cross wind? Is it the power of the engine basically propelling the camper and truck in the forward direction or is it the weight of the truck in relation to the trailer or both? Does that make sense?

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Sway can be caused by a truck passing or high winds. It's easier to see in a boat when you are in a little one and a large boat goes speeding past the wake will affect the boat. The truck that passes you is pushing air which will act on the side of the trailer, which will transfer the force to the truck.

Ways to control sway are to have a heavier truck which makes it harder to push around.
Or to make the connection more rigid with anti-sway friction bars.
Or to take the leverage away from the trailer with a special hitch like Hensley Arrow or ProPride or fifth wheel.

It's NOT how FAST you can go Down the road, Up the grade, or Down the grade.. It's how WELL your equipment can do it, based on it's Horsepower & Torque, in relation to the GVW of the equipment.

We need to OPERATE the equipment, not just DRIVE it, weather it be a TT, FW or MH. Gas or Diesel.

Horsepower gets you up to Speed. Torque keeps you there. Drivetrain gearing, and it's use by the operator controls that.

It's Safer to have [More Than Adequate] Horsepower, Torque, Suspension and Braking.. for the Payload towed, carried or pushed..

 

Big Joe, can you elaborate a little more on the operation portion? I sort of thought an automaticr did everything for you for the most part (minus of course ya know, steering and such). How much actual operation in an automatic truck would I need to put into it going up and down big hills?  Gear changing or something? Not that it's an issue, but I've never driven a manual transmission...so if there's a little more "work" that has to go into it I'd like to know so I know how many learning curves I'm going to be dealing with at once 

I agree with you on speed. I'm not looking to go very fast and I understand the ramifications of what could happen towing a trailer and doing 70 down the interstate. I10 through LA into TX is full of 1/2 ton trucks hauling 5th wheels and they fly right past me in my regular car doing 75. I'd be lying if I said I don't judge them pretty harshly.

My sentiments are more that I'd rather have more than less, and no harm in doing so. It feels safer to me. And since I'm alone, I tend to go bigger than go smaller and be sorry or miss something.

rvannie23 said:

Big Joe, can you elaborate a little more on the operation portion? I sort of thought an automatic did everything for you for the most part (minus of course ya know, steering and such).

** An Auto Trans will do most of the work for you, but if you anticipate load demands... manually up & down shifting will be better/easier on your trucks Engine & Trans. Yul need to get to know your trucks capabilities, and it's needs.. with the trailer in tow.

How much actual operation in an automatic truck would I need to put into it going up and down big hills?  Gear changing or something?

** The above applies ?

Not that it's an issue, but I've never driven a manual transmission...so if there's a little more "work" that has to go into it I'd like to know so I know how many learning curves I'm going to be dealing with at once 

** There is a bit more "Work" to a manual trans because YOU, not the ECM, will have to up & down shift.. as needed.

I agree with you on speed. I'm not looking to go very fast and I understand the ramifications of what could happen towing a trailer and doing 70 down the interstate. I10 through LA into TX is full of 1/2 ton trucks hauling 5th wheels and they fly right past me in my regular car doing 75. I'd be lying if I said I don't judge them pretty harshly.

** Bottom Line ? TT & FW tires are designed for 65 MPH.. Max

My sentiments are more that I'd rather have more than less, and no harm in doing so. It feels safer to me. And since I'm alone, I tend to go bigger than go smaller and be sorry or miss something.

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Your Call.. But when you've made your choices on the pickup & trailer you end up with .. hook it up, loaded & ready to hit the road. Ask a friend that has some experience with that sort of thing.. and take some Short Day Trips around your local area.. in varied traffic and road conditions.. Get To Know What You Have.. And How It Handles.. And How You NEED To Handle IT.

Learn to operate more on RPM's, rather than MPH.

Even if you've towed things before.. what you have now will be New To You.. Get to know it ?

An empty area of a big Parking Lot is a Good Thing. Set some milk cartons up. Make some turns, do some backing. It's All Good !!

And.....Post up any specifics you might have, on here. We're here to help.

Changing Gears.  As Joe has said, it's all about keeping your truck/trailer in the power band of the engine depending on speed which is reflected by the rpms.  The lower the gear, (in manual terms, 1st, 2nd, etc. up through overdrive at 5th generally) the higher the rpms.  As you gain speed through the gear range, your rpms go down until you're humming along at highway speeds and low rpms.  The automatic you drive now goes through the same gear shifting, but you may or may not have a tachometer that lets you see your rpms as you accelerate or decelerate through the gear levels.  I think (?) this relationship is impacted by the gear ratios of the truck. 

For going uphill, you need more power so generally one thinks about using a lower gear at higher rpms and thus a lower speed.  For downhill, you got several tons of trailer pushing you and trying to increase your speed beyond safe limits, so to slow down, you also use lower gears, at higher rpms and allow the engine rather than your brakes to do the work.  Easy if you have a manual.  Now today, with automatic transmissions, the trucks I've looked at come with a tow/haul mode selector, which takes the actual manual gearshifting away and does it automatically.  You would use tow/haul mode for both uphill and downhill, cause I've heard that ancient wisdom says you need to go down the hill at the same speed you went the hill.  The tow/haul mode locks out the higher gears so that the truck uses lower gears, at higher rpms, leading to hopefully less speed.  So it is still automatic, you just have to to turn on the tow/haul I think.  One complaint I've heard about mountain towing with automatics is that there are situations where the transmission does a lot of shifting and searching for the "best" gear, which can get annoying, but is not really harming the truck.  And, no cruise control even in the hills I guess.  And I agree, speed up the hill is not a big deal to me, but power is.

Oh yeah, and somewhere in here you have to watch your engine temps because all that work the transmission is doing is heating up the transmission fluid - a lot, especially in hot weather when there isn't much of a thermal gradient compared to ambient air temps.  To help with that, a Max Tow Pkg. (maybe any tow pkg.) should include a transmission fluid cooler, and, if possible, an upgraded engine oil cooler.  No one wants to be that forlorn person parked in the Scenic Pull-out on a mountain grade with steam pouring from the engine.

The whole point to being more in control and selecting gears is to save the brakes on a downhill.  If you have to ride the brakes to control your speed, especially on long descents, they can overheat and fade, which means you loose all stopping ability.  Scary!  It is recommended that if you need to brake, one only does so in short bursts, and as little as possible, and you have to learn to use the trailer brakes as well.  As already stated, the time to know how you are going to get down the hill, i.e. speed, is when you're at the crest of the hill, not half way down the descent.  You want to be at a lower speed and in a higher gear.

I'm just wrapping my head around all this too, so thanks for a chance to explain how I understand at least part of it.

Linda

Linda,

Great explanation! So it seems that the tow haul mode for the most part adjusts the engine for you to optimize power. trailer breaking is something I am working on learning how to accomplish, but I realize that there is some involvement in towing other than just steering the truck in the right direction. I'm sure I'll get it. A manual truck is absolutely not an option for me as I don't think it's wise to learn stick shift, learn to haul, and drive in unfamiliar terrain all at once.

Over heating  seems to be an issue when you try and over exert the truck. Mash on the accelerator, try and fly up the hill etc. or maybe if the grade was particularly steep. I haven't seen many complaints about it on some of the other threads and other websites. I  have never heard that about the same speed up and down the hill but I'll remember it.

If you ever see me pulled over on a scenic pull out with steam coming out of my engine you can add "hysterically crying" to forlorn.

rvannie23 said:

Linda,

Great explanation! So it seems that the tow haul mode for the most part adjusts the engine for you to optimize power. trailer breaking is something I am working on learning how to accomplish, but I realize that there is some involvement in towing other than just steering the truck in the right direction. I'm sure I'll get it. A manual truck is absolutely not an option for me as I don't think it's wise to learn stick shift, learn to haul, and drive in unfamiliar terrain all at once.

Over heating  seems to be an issue when you try and over exert the truck. Mash on the accelerator, try and fly up the hill etc. or maybe if the grade was particularly steep. I haven't seen many complaints about it on some of the other threads and other websites. I  have never heard that about the same speed up and down the hill but I'll remember it.

** keeping the "Rig" in the right gear, at the right RPM's to keep the engine in it's Power Curve*.. will prevent Over Heating.. to a Great degree.

If you ever see me pulled over on a scenic pull out with steam coming out of my engine you can add "hysterically crying" to forlorn.

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YES Linda gave you a GREAT Tutorial on the Nut's & Bolts of Towing.. No Doubt.

I didn't wana go there.. until you knew what Year, Make and Model of truck you are going to buy.. 

* The Power Curve is where the Horsepower and Torque ratings Peak. Within those peaks is where you want to keep the engine RPM's at, using the gears.. when pulling hills and grades. The Power Curve is Engine Specific, to Year and Make. Simply Put.

Again.. don't know all that yet (?), when we do, there are many "Hints" that can be passed a long, to make your Learning Curve a little easier to go around ? (yes, a Pun) ;D

So I'm looking at the 2500 Silverado WT, with trailering package, but they are showing me a 6.0L V8 gas engine. 360 HP 380 Torque. Of course the salesman is adamant that it won't be an issue with a 13,000# towing capacity but I'm still not sure. The drop in torque is so drastic from the deisel model. Any thoughts?

The 6.0 Chevy engine is a very good engine. We have a van with the 6.0 that has well over 300,000 miles and still runs strong even though the body doesn't look good. I also had a Class B MH with the 6.0 and we towed a Honda CRV behind it and had no problem in the mountains. I personally like the diesel but, the Chevy should tow your trailer without a problem. The last trailer I towed was a 5th wheel with a 3500 Dodge with the Cummins diesel. There is a lot of 2500 Chevys with the 6.0 towing some pretty big trailers.

rvannie23 said:

So I'm looking at the 2500 Silverado WT, with trailering package, but they are showing me a 6.0L V8 gas engine. 360 HP 380 Torque. Of course the salesman is adamant that it won't be an issue with a 13,000# towing capacity but I'm still not sure. The drop in torque is so drastic from the deisel model. Any thoughts?

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I'm a Diesel Fan, so you know where that would go. 

But... my Neighbor bought a new F-250, 4x4 Super Duty (= GM  2500 ?) with the Big gas engine. Pulls a 24' Jayco, Jayfeather Select TT with it.

In His Words: It just doesn't Have It.. in the Hills. It's always Shifting up & down.

( the Horsepower & Torque factors ?)

Jus' Say'n. 

BIG JOE said:

I'm a Diesel Fan, so you know where that would go. 

But... my Neighbor bought a new F-250, 4x4 Super Duty (= GM  2500 ?) with the Big gas engine. Pulls a 24' Jayco, Jayfeather Select TT with it.

In His Words: It just doesn't Have It.. in the Hills. It's always Shifting up & down.

( the Horsepower & Torque factors ?)

Jus' Say'n. 

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I knew already looking at those numbers I was like ehhh up a hill though? A BIG hill?? Probably not. Not sure why the sales guy is so intent on it. It's a bigger sale with a diesel.

Did the dealer have a similar truck with a diesel in stock??  If not, there is your answer.  Or there may be a big bonus for selling left over 2016 trucks.  The reason is likely in SALESMAN'S best interest.

I've looked at these gas vs diesel debates and heard that if you buy the diesel you'll get your money back when you sell. I've always thought, yea right, no way you're going to get 8 to 10 K$ back in 5 years. Then while thinking of this for awhile I came up with a small experiment. First I checked Chevy.com and found that a diesel adds $7800 to a 2500HD. Then I checked Cars.com for 4 to 5 year old Chevy 2500HDs, 10 with gas, 10 with diesel. Surprisingly the price difference as listed was exactly $7800, $28300 for gas as listed, $36100 for diesel. So you do get your money back with a diesel.

grashley said:

Did the dealer have a similar truck with a diesel in stock??  If not, there is your answer.  Or there may be a big bonus for selling left over 2016 trucks.  The reason is likely in SALESMAN'S best interest.

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My thoughts exactly. It was actually a 2017 model but he was really forcing the issue that a diesel was totally not needed. I do think he make have been under the gun to move some merchandise. I did tell him I wanted lightly used, preferably, to which his response was people keep their chevys for 10 or more years because they are excellent cars. Lol. I might go to a different dealership. I'm not the pitch type especially when I know what I want.

sadixon49 said:

I've looked at these gas vs diesel debates and heard that if you buy the diesel you'll get your money back when you sell. I've always thought, yea right, no way you're going to get 8 to 10 K$ back in 5 years. Then while thinking of this for awhile I came up with a small experiment. First I checked Chevy.com and found that a diesel adds $7800 to a 2500HD. Then I checked Cars.com for 4 to 5 year old Chevy 2500HDs, 10 with gas, 10 with diesel. Surprisingly the price difference as listed was exactly $7800, $28300 for gas as listed, $36100 for diesel. So you do get your money back with a diesel.

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Agreed. I never hope to really recover anything on my vehicles because I usually put a lot of miles on them which I found makes them depreciate even faster.  That's why used in this situation seems like a good idea, the hit won't be so bad. You definitely still pay that deisel price with a used vehicle though.