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Author Topic: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?  (Read 1936 times)

GRASH

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Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« on: February 08, 2017, 03:13:17 PM »
I have a 2010 Jayco Melbourne where in 2015 the bucket seat covers and couch cover began rapidly deteriorating and just flaking away to expose the foam rubber underneath.  It cost me $2140 to reupholster the fabric.  Indeed, this is a very premature failure of these fabrics and one would hope for a much higher quality and more durable material from Jayco.

I’m wondering if other RV owners have also experienced premature failure of the upholstery fabric in their RV’s?

All the upholstery professionals I talked to commented on the low quality of the upholstery material used by Jayco.  I discussed the problem with Mr. Robbie Dotson at Ocean Grove RV (a Jayco dealer in St. Augustine, FL).  Robbie told me that he had seen many instances of the problem of flaking off of seat/couch covers, as I have experienced, in Jayco RVs, sometimes occurring in fairly new RVs.  He stated that he understood that Jayco, Inc. was changing manufacturers of the chairs, couches, etc. in their RVs to address the problem. 

However, Jayco customer service has denied that there is a problem with their fabric, as follows:
“We are very sorry this has occurred but if the material had a “severe quality issue” as you have indicated, we would be hearing from other customers and we just simply are not.  I’m not sure where Robbie is getting his information but what he is saying is not indicated by phone calls or customer complaints to our customer service team.”

This problem with the extremely low quality fabric is just the latest issue in an extremely long list of low quality issues I have encountered with my Jayco Melbourne.

beaverfever

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2017, 04:55:27 PM »
first thread and one company flamed .
i don't believe you will find any rv mfg covering anything under warranty 5years after it left the factory  let alone furniture or seats. if you were having problems they should have been addressed in a timely matter before the warranty expired.
 i am sorry you are having problems but do not think flaming a company on a 7 year old rig is appropriate.

kwbush

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2017, 05:23:33 PM »
 
first thread and one company flamed .
i don't believe you will find any rv mfg covering anything under warranty 5years after it left the factory  let alone furniture or seats. if you were having problems they should have been addressed in a timely matter before the warranty expired.
 i am sorry you are having problems but do not think flaming a company on a 7 year old rig is appropriate.

X2 not that I have a lotta luv for Jayco.
just sayin'...
Keith
Keith & Laraine Bush

2005 Fleetwood Prowler 270FQS
1995 Chevy Silverado C2500

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.    Mark Twain

DearMissMermaid

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2017, 08:31:27 PM »
I am using 23 year old upholstery in my Class C Tioga Montara by Fleetwood.

It looks surprisingly good for it's age!

No fading, no rips, no tears, no worn spots. I vacuum it pretty often.

I think Jayco is cheap. I looked at one of their  glitzy fifth wheela, then when I opened the cabinet, I was shocked at the shoddy workmanship and lack of quality.

My friend bough at 2002 PleasureWay we use now for day tripping. It came with the leather type upholstery which is now 15 years old. It's amazingly comfortable and in great shape.

7 year fail on fabric is rather depressing and expensive.  :(



http://DearMissMermaid.Com

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SeilerBird

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 09:04:51 PM »
I never believe a grossly negative first post. Too suspicious.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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cgmartin

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 10:02:22 PM »
Grash...and welcome to the Forum. You will normally find a more receptive and welcoming crowd, but alas, not today. Sorry that on your very first posting the PC police gave you a lashing.

RVRAC

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2017, 10:52:33 PM »
Welcome to the forum. You are not alone. We have the same problem in our Columbus and it's a 2014.  If you go to a Forest River forum, you will find we are not alone.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2017, 03:43:01 PM »
Sadly, skimping on upholstery quality is an easy way to cuts costs.  Shame on Jayco if they did that, though. They claim to build to a higher standard.

But its also conceivable that the upholstery was exposed to a corrosive atmosphere at some time in its life. Downwind from an industrial smokestack, or may acid rain when a window was left open. Rare, but it happens. Or perhaps an inappropriate cleaner was used at one time?  Vinyl, especially the less pricey stuff, is vulnerable to that sort of thing.

Some folks like to share their misfortune by broadcasting their compliant.  However, Jayco probably has as many quality issues as any other RV maker, and is about as forthcoming in admitting to them as well.
Gary
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gwcowgill

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2017, 03:49:08 PM »
Some air freshener sprays cause fabric to deteriorate faster than normal especially the new car smells.
2009 Bounder 36B, 2014 Honda CR-V, various grandchildren when school is out. KG4LHS
2014 Honda CRV Toad,
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GRASH

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2017, 04:07:22 PM »
first thread and one company flamed .
i don't believe you will find any rv mfg covering anything under warranty 5years after it left the factory  let alone furniture or seats. if you were having problems they should have been addressed in a timely matter before the warranty expired.
 i am sorry you are having problems but do not think flaming a company on a 7 year old rig is appropriate.

I sincerely appreciate those who responded to my post with some facts, insights, and relevant experiences, which I was hoping/expecting to receive on this forum.  Thank you!

In reply to beaverfever (and a couple of others), it seems to me that there are sometimes a few self-appointed “RV experts” on these forums who assume that it’s their role to lecture us with far less knowledge with unhelpful responses such as “(your) problems should have been addressed in a timely manner before the warranty expired”, which of course in this case was impossible.

As to my post being “inappropriate”, IMO having upholstery fabric last only 5 years before complete disintegration and utter failure is truly pathetic and the epitome of “extremely low quality”.  Numerous replies on this forum and elsewhere verify that others have had similar experiences, which contradict Jayco’s claim that this is not a problem.  This is the information I was seeking from my post.

As to “flaming” Jayco, IMO it’s highly useful to read about users’ experiences with various RV products, especially for new buyers prior to their making a big purchase.  I sought out such information on various RV forums prior to making my purchase and I’m certain that many others do so as well.  In that regard, I’ll plan to post more detail about my experience with the “extremely long list of low quality issues I have encountered with my Jayco Melbourne”.  Sadly, many of these quality issues appeared upon delivery, showing an appalling lack of quality control out of the factory.  Furthermore, a large number of quality problems have continued to manifest themselves throughout the years and reflect very badly on Jayco’s claim of (superior) “Jayco quality”.

gwcowgill

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2017, 06:04:07 PM »
I wish more people would write about their experiences with all products and then update their experiences. If enough people would "Rate" their experiences, maybe the manufacturers would take note of problems and update their product.

I for one look online at the ratings of products before any major purchase along with the ratings of the sales outlet. Now that the internet is becoming a platform for complaints, you have a place to check out a product and vent about a product. All ratings and complaints must be taken with a grain of salt. Do I trust the comments on the internet? Not always. Do I always trust those 5 star ratings? Not always.

Their are many factors influencing ratings one way or the other, with some being valid and others not so valid.  The one thing I cannot determine is the percentage of complaints to satisfied customers.
2009 Bounder 36B, 2014 Honda CR-V, various grandchildren when school is out. KG4LHS
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kwbush

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2017, 07:10:51 PM »


As to “flaming” Jayco, IMO it’s highly useful to read about users’ experiences with various RV products, especially for new buyers prior to their making a big purchase.  I sought out such information on various RV forums prior to making my purchase and I’m certain that many others do so as well.  In that regard, I’ll plan to post more detail about my experience with the “extremely long list of low quality issues I have encountered with my Jayco Melbourne”.  Sadly, many of these quality issues appeared upon delivery, showing an appalling lack of quality control out of the factory.  Furthermore, a large number of quality problems have continued to manifest themselves throughout the years and reflect very badly on Jayco’s claim of (superior) “Jayco quality”.


My question is why no narrative explaining the short comings of Jayco's warranty program?
You whine about how bad you unit is but you don't include any information concerning what you did to remedy the situation... your missive only complains how bad Jayco is.

If allowed I'd council you to sell the d_mn thing and either buy a unit of higher quality or forget RV'ing altogether.

I'm sorry for your angst but I don't think Jayco is as bad as you make them to be.  :(

Keith
Keith & Laraine Bush

2005 Fleetwood Prowler 270FQS
1995 Chevy Silverado C2500

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.    Mark Twain

Old Racer

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2017, 07:52:04 PM »
Wow, I guess I did not see a "whine" in that post at all, but I do take exception to the use of the term. I have had coaches from Winnebago and Holiday Rambler well past that time with no deterioration of the upholstery. (Not counting a friend who sat in the drivers seat with a poorly sheathed hunting knife).

If my coach bucket seats needed replacement at 5 years I guess I would post a complaint too.
They did not!

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2017, 09:41:42 AM »
I didn't see a "whine" either, just a reasonably factual account of the problem he experienced. And a request for input on similar experiences, to get a sanity check on Jayco's response.

I'm not surprised that a upholstery shop expert feels the Jayco standard seat is "low quality", but I also suspect they would say that about much of the furniture sold in low-mid priced stores these days.
Gary
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Old Racer

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2017, 11:40:36 AM »
As to the term, we went to a laundromat in Seward, Alaska, and found they had a big sign over the desk, "No Whining".

After trying to do our wash in the poor condition, in need of repair washers and driers, I spoke to the owner, and told him I was Bitching, not Whining, and explained the problems.

Bitching is giving voice to a complaint which you know darn well they will not resolve, but something needs to be said.

In my opinion, anyways.😬

kwbush

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2017, 12:10:24 PM »
Ummmm... whine, bitchin' etc. they're all the same. I stand by my post that the OP didn't explain how Jayco handle his/her complaint. If Jayco blew him/her off and didn't address the problem then let us know that.

Problem is we are hearing from one side only,  Grash has been extremely negative toward Jayco and we all know if all of Jayco's units were as defective as Grash makes out, Jayco wouldn't be making RV's today... well maybe they'd be making 'em but who would buy?

I can't apologize for my use of the word whining 'cause that's exactly how I see it... whining!

Keith
Keith & Laraine Bush

2005 Fleetwood Prowler 270FQS
1995 Chevy Silverado C2500

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denmarc

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 12:24:19 PM »
After reading the thread, I feel sad. But unfortunately, the way it is now days. Regardless of manufacturer, quality gets moved to the back burner as a result of manufacturing cost and dealer profit vs. consumer cost. The vendor of the fabric needed to make a profit too!
As well as Jayco in the building of that Melbourne.
 
Welcome to the new age of paying for it. No offense. But you better get accustom and plan fir it.
You will be happier if you do. 
Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

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Derby6

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2017, 06:10:55 PM »
This problem with the extremely low quality fabric is just the latest issue in an extremely long list of low quality issues I have encountered with my Jayco Melbourne.

It seems the board is split on whether this is a good post or not.  I lean towards the side that says it is more in appropriate than appropriate.
Here is my rationale.
 It is GRASH's first post.  To start off with complaining, whining, b!tching, or what ever you want to call it is somewhat suspicious.  No one has any idea of their background, knowledgebase, experience, attitude, etc...  Regulars (AKA: Frequent forum visitors and posters) start to become somewhat of a family knowing who is knowledgeable - vs - a know it all - vs - a one upper - the list could go on.
  Secondly it is stated that this fabric issue is the latest thing on a long list.  But this latest thing is 2 years old, so one can only assume you have been trouble free for the past 2 years.  Why are we researching a two year old issue?  Some immediately conclude you are trouble trolling and/or maybe have a vested interest in delegitimizing Jayco.  Maybe a marketer for a competitor?
  Lastly, when some folks respond with doubt; GRASH's second post criticizes some long standing members inputs.

Don't ask questions if you already know the answer that you want to hear.  :P

Carry on.... ;) ;D
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2017, 08:05:22 AM »
You are guys are really tough this week!
Gary
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docj

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2017, 09:04:46 AM »
The durability of upholstery fabrics in the US is measured using the Wyzenbeek Test which you can read about here: https://sailrite.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/double-rubs-and-the-wyzenbeek-test/

When RV manufacturers spec furniture for their RVs they decide the "price points" that they are willing to pay for the component parts, one element of which is the furniture.  By specifying what they are willing to pay for chairs, sofas, etc, RV manufacturers force the furniture manufacturers to make tradeoffs between frame and fabric costs.  So an RV manufacturer might advertise that the captains chairs in a MH are upholstered in Ultraleather, but all that means is that the fabric is made by the company that owns that trademark. It doesn't mean that the fabric used is the top-quality Ultraleather that the company is known for. 

Despite the fact that our Beaver was a relatively high end MH in its day, I eventually discovered that neither its captains chairs nor its seating pieces were made by Flexsteel or Villa, today's two major suppliers.  All the furniture was made by smaller vendors, none of which are in business today.  No doubt, Beaver probably put out an RFP for quotes on furniture and these smaller ones were probably best able to meet the spec at the lowest prices.  In fact, when we replaced the pieces, all of the original upholstery fabric was still intact.  Possibly, the lower fixed costs of a lesser known furniture manufacturer enabled them to provide a higher quality fabric than might have been bid by the larger manufacturers.

Good upholstered furniture costs a lot and much of that cost is associated with the fabric.  We now have new top-of-the-line Flexsteel captains chairs upholstered in premium Ultraleather and an Ekornes Stressless sofa and recliner in an upgraded leather.   We could have purchased less expensive pieces but we decided that if you only owned a few pieces of furniture, they might as well be good ones.  The recliner is now ~6 years old and is "my chair" so it is used a lot (we are full-timers), but the leather is still soft and supple. 

Quite honestly, I wouldn't expect the OEM upholstery in a MH at the OP's price point to last for more than ~5 years.  The overall vehicle price isn't enough to have supported use of higher quality materials.  This isn't a slap at his RV; it's simply a fact of life that with an MSRP in the ~$100k range the manufacturer has to fit each of the subsystems into a realistic budget.

Joel (AKA docj)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 09:07:59 AM by docj »
Sandie & Joel

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RVRAC

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2017, 01:41:46 PM »
Grash, you are not alone.

Here is a quote from another forum:

"We can have a 2013 cross country sports coach. All of the covering on the driver and passenger seat sofas and dinette are peeling and flaking. Have contacted forest river to no avail. Is anyone else having this issue."
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FelineSpirits

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2017, 11:29:58 AM »
I am curious whether the upholstery that deteriorated so quickly is some type of simulated leather/vinyl or actual cloth fabric.
Wandering aimlessly through life...

Blaze148

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2017, 07:35:40 AM »
I'm having a similar problem with de laminating fabric in my 2010 Coach House Platinum 11
I've read on forums that numerous builders in the industry used inferior fabric around 2008-2010
Coach House acknowledged this and graciously offered to change out the old for new at a generous discount
My vehicle is currently at the factory having the work done.
While there, I'm having new floors and window treatments done as well
I was impressed that they were cooperative.

blw2

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2017, 01:17:51 PM »
the fake leather vinyl stuff in mine is delaminating.  I called the company that makes the furniture for thor last summer to see if replacements were available or if they would make the same cover in a different fabric.  Of course they can't.... contractually
Had an interesting conversation though with the lady, and how the RV manufacturer is the one that spec's the fabric.  They just make it.
She also said that the regular fabric stuff is the same material that you would find in home furnishings, and would last a long time.... where this cheap fake leather stuff is just cheap and will not last.

I think I kinda knew this in my gut when we bought but DW wanted the "leather" thinking it would handle spills form the kids better.
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docj

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2017, 05:24:04 PM »

I think I kinda knew this in my gut when we bought but DW wanted the "leather" thinking it would handle spills form the kids better.

Don't lose sight of the fact that even if you had spec'd the fabric rather than the "leather" it would have been cheap fabric, also.  Good upholstery fabric isn't inexpensive.  The only difference is that you wouldn't have had the delaminating issue; it simply would have worn through.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2017, 09:41:14 AM »
Nothing at all wrong with "fake leather". The top quality Ultraleather and Naugahyde brands are superior to "real leather" in many ways. Whether fake or real, fabric or leather, cheap is cheap and isn't going to survive well.

For what it's worth, the Flexsteel seating and sofas in the coach I sold recently were all real leather, actual split grain cowhide. At age 13, the leather was getting hairline cracks and in a few places that flex a lot the finished surface had flaked away. My wife knows all about caring for leather and was religious about it, but it doesn't last forever either. Especially when exposed to direct sun and drastic variations in heat & humidity.
Gary
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denmarc

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2017, 11:32:28 AM »
Think about it...
Cows get old and shrivel (flake) away too. Right?
Mark

1994 Jayco Eagle 370FB on 24 acres of paid off paradise in Michigan.

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
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HappyWanderer

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2017, 07:08:05 PM »
I'm a little late to the party, but we have a 2008 Jayco with no fabric issues. We keep the shades down when not using the camper, to minimize sun damage to the interior.
I don't have gray hair. I have wisdom highlights.

Yukondon

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 05:54:36 AM »
I have a 2010 Jayco Melbourne where in 2015 the bucket seat covers and couch cover began rapidly deteriorating and just flaking away to expose the foam rubber underneath.  It cost me $2140 to reupholster the fabric.  Indeed, this is a very premature failure of these fabrics and one would hope for a much higher quality and more durable material from Jayco.

I’m wondering if other RV owners have also experienced premature failure of the upholstery fabric in their RV’s?

All the upholstery professionals I talked to commented on the low quality of the upholstery material used by Jayco.  I discussed the problem with Mr. Robbie Dotson at Ocean Grove RV (a Jayco dealer in St. Augustine, FL).  Robbie told me that he had seen many instances of the problem of flaking off of seat/couch covers, as I have experienced, in Jayco RVs, sometimes occurring in fairly new RVs.  He stated that he understood that Jayco, Inc. was changing manufacturers of the chairs, couches, etc. in their RVs to address the problem. 

However, Jayco customer service has denied that there is a problem with their fabric, as follows:
“We are very sorry this has occurred but if the material had a “severe quality issue” as you have indicated, we would be hearing from other customers and we just simply are not.  I’m not sure where Robbie is getting his information but what he is saying is not indicated by phone calls or customer complaints to our customer service team.”

This problem with the extremely low quality fabric is just the latest issue in an extremely long list of low quality issues I have encountered with my Jayco Melbourne.


The premature failure of "Ultra Leather" is long standing.  I have three instances where it peels off like dead sunburned skin leaving only the fabric to which it was bonded.  Comments flaming manufacturers should be a wake up call to the manufacturer to more closely evaluate, in this case, their fabric selection instead of taking the word of the furniture or fabric supplier.  The old GM "Fisher Rub Test" is one of the best evaluation / test methods for fabric wearability and environmental condition response.  I have a 50 year old Alaskan Camper with normal use and the fabric is still providing a good seating surface.  This as compared to a 5 year old Ultra Leather drivers seat I viewed in a Class B and another 7 year old passenger seat.  When my desk chair started peeling two years ago it started as a small blemish.  Some manufacturers becoming aware of the Ultra Leather or vinyl coated fabric have discontinued the use of Ultra Leather.

Dance Chick

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Re: Premature Failure of Fabric: Anyone Else Have This Problem?
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 07:13:22 AM »
Sorry, didn't see this thread back in February. Seems to me there are some short memories on here. There was a bunch of talk about this about 3 or 4 years ago on this forum and others. Our Thor we had at the time was doing the very same thing. It seems that some inferior products had been used, and there were lots of people with this same problem. Our coach was a 2007, and this began happening around late 2012/early 2013. We've since gotten another coach and do not have problems. Our very good friends have a 2012 Tiffin that is now doing the same thing. Tiffin sent them new material, but they have to pay to have the seats recovered. It appears that this happens somewhere around the 5 or 6 year mark.
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