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Author Topic: coach battery not charging  (Read 2218 times)

IRONHEAD

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coach battery not charging
« on: February 11, 2017, 01:54:54 PM »
I have a 2014 Thor ACE 30.1  The coach battery is not charging. This is what I have done , replaced a good coach battery, replaced a good converter. Well some people do these things.I tested them but did not believe the results.  I tested the converter as instructed . The converter is working. The battery is new and is not charging. I checked the voltage before it gets to the circuit breaker. However it charges when the vehicle engine is running . AM I doing something wrong to cause the battery not to charge? I keep it plugged in.

Alfa38User

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2017, 02:13:47 PM »
Have you checked the large fuses usually found in line from the converter to the battery?? They may be mounted on the face of the converter or power panel and are there to prevent a problem should the battery be accidentally connected in reverse. They have also been known to blow without the help of a reversed battery connection.

What circuit breaker?? Normally Circuit Breakers are used for 120V and fuses are used for 12V although c/b have been known to be used there too.
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
Alfa Gold 38 (2000) 5ver (parked!)

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Just Lou

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 02:30:41 PM »
How about the Disconnect switches by the entry door, are they ON?

How about when you are NOT plugged to shore power, do you get power from the coach batteries to operate the interior lights?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 02:39:38 PM by Just Lou »
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Kevin Means

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2017, 10:42:28 AM »
Definitely the symptoms of a disconnect swith turned off.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2017, 11:48:02 AM »
Ok gang after all your great suggestions this is what I have done.
Checked output at the converter....13.58 volts...when plugged in.
Checked all fuses including the two 40AMP  .....all Good
Checked the FUSE/RELAY/CIRCUIT BREAKER at the battery.All ok. Breaker can be reset. Another words if it pops you reset it.

Checked battery voltage at the battery ...9.56..Checked voltage in the cable from converter in the battery compartment ...  before the breaker 9.56
Checked master disconnect switch on the front of the engine compartment..made no difference in voltage...
Checked STORE/USE switch made no difference in the battery voltage..9.56
When store /use switch is flipped you can hear and feel a solenoid.It's behind a panel in the engine compartment.  Please don't say take it to your dealer...my dealer sucks.

Kevin Means

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2017, 01:33:53 PM »
It's just a guess, but the solenoid may not be switching like it's supposed to when you turn the house-battery isolation switch on. It's not unusual at all for one to fail, and it would cause the batteries to not charge. In my experience, when they fail, they usually stop making that "clicking" sound, but I still think it's worth checking - especially if you've verified that all circuit-breakers and fuses are good. Fortunately, those solenoids aren't very expensive if you have to replace them. Can you use a VOM to verify that the solenoid is allowing power downstream when the battery isolation switch is on? (Connected)

Kev
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 01:36:40 PM by Kevin Means »
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

Just Lou

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2017, 01:37:22 PM »
Ok gang after all your great suggestions this is what I have done.
Checked output at the converter....13.58 volts...when plugged in.
Checked all fuses including the two 40AMP  .....all Good
Checked the FUSE/RELAY/CIRCUIT BREAKER at the battery.All ok. Breaker can be reset. Another words if it pops you reset it.

Checked battery voltage at the battery ...9.56..Checked voltage in the cable from converter in the battery compartment ...  before the breaker 9.56
Checked master disconnect switch on the front of the engine compartment..made no difference in voltage...
Checked STORE/USE switch made no difference in the battery voltage..9.56
When store /use switch is flipped you can hear and feel a solenoid.It's behind a panel in the engine compartment.  Please don't say take it to your dealer...my dealer sucks.
Take a deep breath....
Maybe open up a cold one....
NOW, open that panel that you hear the solenoid in, and reset the two breakers found in the bottom of the box.
They will look like the attached photo, (but with wires and bars attached of course.)

By the way, any time you replace the house battery, while the coach is plugged in, you are very likely to trip these breakers as they would have converter voltage on them, and any short to ground at the cable will trip them.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 02:04:29 PM »
No such circuit breakers in the box with the solenoid. ALL solid state with 5 pole relays. Checked the solenoid with the rocker switch in the use mode and got engine or chassis battery voltage on both sides, switched to store mode and got chassis voltage on one side and coach voltage on the other. So far it is no big deal so not concerned yet I was hoping someone had a similar problem and knew a simple answer. Thanks for your help I have learned something even if it did not fix my problem.

grashley

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2017, 04:20:52 PM »
I'm no Master Electrician, but as I understand what you reported, you are getting 13.6V out of the Converter, but somehow that is not getting to the house batteries, or there is a HUGE voltage loss between the two.

Specifically, what path does the power take from the converter to the batteries?  The problem must be along this path.  Maybe a hidden loose connection?  Broken wire?  Hidden in line fuse?

How close is the converter to the batteries?  Could you simply run a new wire pair?  Fused, of course!

A recent post about converter wiring concluded that using the chassis as the ground path for the converter was a bad idea.  Have you checked the grounding?         http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,102346.0.html
Preacher Gordon
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS - not yet received
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4
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Just Lou

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2017, 05:06:51 PM »
No such circuit breakers in the box with the solenoid.
I'm not familiar with the packaging of the RV-CP BCC as implemented in the Thor.  The CB may, in fact, be mounted on the circuit board.
Quote
ALL solid state with 5 pole relays.
I'm not at all sure what this statement means without further context.
Photos would certainly help.
Quote
Checked the solenoid with the rocker switch in the use mode and got engine or chassis battery voltage on both sides, switched to store mode and got chassis voltage on one side and coach voltage on the other.
Which rocker switch? (coach or chassis disconnect?)
Which solenoid were you measuring? (Isolator or one of the disconnect?)
Was the coach plugged in?
Was the engine running?

Your measurements may be perfectly normal depending.
One must remember that one of the main functions of the RV-CP BCC is to manage the bridging and/or isolation of the two battery systems during the various charging scenarios that can exist considering all plugged, unplugged, generator and engine running scenarios.

By the way, I never received the answer to my previous question of...
 "when you are NOT plugged to shore power, do you get power from the coach batteries to operate the interior lights?"  The answer to this question would be of great help in the elimination or isolation of various components in the charging path.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 08:36:17 PM by Just Lou »
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

WILDEBILL308

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2017, 06:20:23 PM »
Try starting the generator and see if it charges the house batteries. I am thinking the auto transfer switch may be stuck/defective. Whatever you do you need to put a charger on the batteries because they are dead and need to be brought back to a charged condition.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

ChasA

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2017, 07:18:05 PM »
I suspect that Ironhead has confused Coach (house) batteries with chassis battery, AND also confused the boost switch with the store/use switch for the house batteries.
Apex, NC
2010 Winnebago journey Express 34Y (pre DEF)
2007 Saturn Vue

NY_Dutch

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2017, 07:34:54 PM »
Check the ground connections. Clean bright metal to metal contact works wonders sometimes...
Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/Blue Ox base plate

WILDEBILL308

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2017, 08:38:39 PM »
I have a 2014 Thor ACE 30.1  The coach battery is not charging. This is what I have done , replaced a good coach battery, replaced a good converter. Well some people do these things.I tested them but did not believe the results.  I tested the converter as instructed . The converter is working. The battery is new and is not charging. I checked the voltage before it gets to the circuit breaker. However it charges when the vehicle engine is running . AM I doing something wrong to cause the battery not to charge? I keep it plugged in.

Let's start with basics. Is this battery the one that starts your coach? Has it charged before? Are you geting 13+ volts at the outher(house) batteries? They should be 4 ea 6 volt Batteries.

When the motorhome engine is not running, the chassis and auxiliary batteries are
kept separated from each other within the electrical system through the use of a battery
isolating controller. The controller prevents the auxiliary batteries from discharging the
chassis battery when the motorhome is parked.
Some additional characteristics of the isolator system include:
1. Delays connecting the auxiliary batteries to the charging system for
approximately 15 seconds, to allow the alternator time to reach full
charging ability.
2. After this initial time delay, if the alternator has come up to full
charging ability, (13.2 Volts) the isolator will electrically connect the
auxiliary and chassis batteries together for charging.
3. If the charging voltage drops below 13.2 Volts for a period of 4
seconds due to low idle speed and or excessive load, the isolator
will disconnect the auxiliary batteries until the voltage returns to a
level of 13.2 volts for about 10 seconds.
4. In the event the automotive battery is discharged, it will be
necessary to press and hold the Start Switch located in the dash.
From about page 97 of the owner's manual.
It could be a bad battery isolating controller. Let me know what you find.
Bill


2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 10:37:16 AM »
To: Wildebill,Just  Lou ,Chas  A and others . It's raining cats sand dogs here and chilly I will get to your questions in awhile I will check your suggestions as soon as I can. They are all good suggestions and will take me awhile to do. Here is an answer for Chas A.
The chassis batt is the one in the front of the engine the starts and operates the engine ,headlights etc. it is used to start the engine. it is charging at 13.56 volts when the engine is running. BUT one thing that I fail to understand is that with the engine is running, shore line unplugged the coach batt ,thats the one in the outside compartment thats connected to the converter that operates the lights in the living area of the rv is showing 9.56 volts with the engine not running BUT with the enging running  it shows the same as the engine battery 13.56 volts that would indicate that the engine charging system is connected to the RV electrical sysyem some where But if this is true why is my engine battery not going dead and the house battery is ?  You are correct in saying that I am confused about the STORE/USE SWITCH AND THE BOOST SWITCH. The STORE/USE SWITCH is at the entrance to the RV. When The RV is being used you place it in the use position, when the RV is not being used place it in the store position. The BOOST switch , I know nothing about it or where it is located please fill me in.

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 10:39:13 AM »
I leave the STORE/USE switch in the use position and the RV plugged in to a shore line when I am not out RVing.

Just Lou

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2017, 11:06:48 AM »
The chassis batt is the one in the front of the engine the starts and operates the engine ,headlights etc. it is used to start the engine. it is charging at 13.56 volts when the engine is running. BUT one thing that I fail to understand is that with the engine is running, shore line unplugged the coach batt ,thats the one in the outside compartment thats connected to the converter that operates the lights in the living area of the rv is showing 9.56 volts with the engine not running BUT with the enging running  it shows the same as the engine battery 13.56 volts that would indicate that the engine charging system is connected to the RV electrical sysyem some where But if this is true why is my engine battery not going dead and the house battery is ?  You are correct in saying that I am confused about the STORE/USE SWITCH AND THE BOOST SWITCH. The STORE/USE SWITCH is at the entrance to the RV. When The RV is being used you place it in the use position, when the RV is not being used place it in the store position. The BOOST switch , I know nothing about it or where it is located please fill me in.
The house battery also charges when the engine is running because the Isolator solenoid contacts are closed when the engine alternator is producing voltage above 13.2v.  This is normal and "as designed".

The reason your chassis battery is NOT being drained along with your house batteries, (when engine is NOT running) is that the Isolator solenoid is doing its job and separating the systems when NO charging is being sensed. 

The answer to my previous question will help determine if the problem is just a failure within the converter charging path, or a complete failure in the path between house batteries and DC distribution panel.  Again, photos of the BCC would also help.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 11:22:33 AM by Just Lou »
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2017, 11:18:22 AM »
BOOST switch ? I got it . It is the switch by the steering wheel on the dash that allows you to combine the house batteries and the chassis batteries to start the engine when the chassis battery is in a low voltage condition.

WILDEBILL308

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2017, 01:30:36 PM »
Ok, now the question is, are the house batteries charging when you run the generator? If they are then it points to a bad "auto transfer switch" this switch changes automatically from using generator power to using shore power.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2017, 01:49:24 PM »
engine off----shore line unplugged ------generator running no lights

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2017, 01:50:28 PM »
correction lights on after about 15-20 seconds but coach battery not charging

WILDEBILL308

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2017, 02:43:52 PM »
The first thing I would check is, do you have power to the auto transfer switch. If not I would work back from there.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

WILDEBILL308

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2017, 02:57:46 PM »
 
You might try and get a wiring diagram from Thor.
https://thormotorcoach.com/customer-care/
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2017, 03:26:53 PM »
JUST E-MAILED Thor and requested a wiring sechematic. Thats good to know
Where is the power transfer switch you mentioned or a possible location

Just Lou

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2017, 03:58:41 PM »
correction lights on after about 15-20 seconds but coach battery not charging
I assume this is also the result that you get when plugging into shore power, but without the delay....correct?

If you have interior lights when plugged in to shore power AND when generator is running, your transfer switch is operating correctly.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Just Lou

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2017, 04:49:11 PM »
Does your BCC board look like the one attached?
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2017, 06:06:28 PM »
Yes exactly like the one the photo

Just Lou

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2017, 07:14:02 PM »
Yes exactly like the one the photo
Look at the photo.  That square white component in the lower left corner is the circuit breaker that connects the converter to the house batteries.  It is also the path that battery voltage must take back from the batteries to the DC distribution (fuse) panel.

Press that little black button on the end of that breaker and your problem should be solved.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

IRONHEAD

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2017, 10:42:20 AM »
Lou you are as smart as a show dog. (THAT's A COMPLIMENT) Pushed the button and the house/aux/coach/battery started to charge,amazing. I suspect you knew this all along.
I am going to put you on my Christmas card list.
I downloaded the schematic from THOR , I sure hope they don't build RV's with this diagram it is seriously lacking on information. The box which is called a battery controller that this switch is located in is not even shown . Another good thing to come out of this is that I found the slide out comtroller which I have been looking for is located on the ceiling of a left side compartment, who knew. Now I have to go find out why my awning stops working from time to time all on its own. THANKS A BUNCH GUYS.

kdbgoat

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Re: coach battery not charging
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2017, 11:07:20 AM »
Yep, Just Lou is a sharp cookie. I've learned a lot from him on here. Most I don't need right now, but still may come handy someday.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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