Does it HAVE to be a dually? (5th wheel towing question)

Hey folks! I have yet another variation of the age-old "what kind of truck do I need" question! ;-)

We're looking to upgrade from a TT to a Montana 5th wheel, the new 3791RD. According to Keystone's spec sheet, it has a shipping weight of 13,470 lb; cargo capacity of 3,475 lb; and hitch weight of 2,945 lb. So if I understand this all correctly (which I might not, since I keep reading and reading about weights and towing and still seem to be confused  :-\ ), if I loaded this thing up to the max, the total weight I could expect to have to tow would be 19,890 lb.

OK. We know we need to upgrade our truck. We love Ford so we'll get a Ford F-350. We'll get the diesel engine, 4x2, crew cab, 8' bed/largest wheelbase (176"). According to the Ford spec sheet, the max towing capacity of that configuration is 21,000 lb. I know we have to factor in our weight and whatever we might put in the truck, but generally we take a chase vehicle on our RV trips (my minivan) and with the storage and stuff that we would have in the 5th wheel, it's unlikely that we'd really have much to add to the truck.

We're not full-timers; we RV for weekend trips and vacations which also cuts down on the amount of stuff that we carry with us.

So would y'all really recommend a dually over a SRW in that scenario? I have looked at other threads and I see so many people recommending a dually, but this would also be the truck that my husband drives around Dallas to go to work, etc, and that's just so much truck to drive around town every day. We don't want to be unsafe--part of the reason that we want to upgrade from a TT to a 5th wheel is that we hear that they are just more stable to tow, and we're pushing the limits of our F-150's tow capacity with our current TT and that's not something we like.

But if we can be safe and avoid getting a dually, that would be our preference. We'd love to hear some current 5th wheel drivers' take on it.

Thanks so much for your time!

~Anna

Add the dry weight and cargo capacity to get the GVWR. The pin weight is how much of that is on the pin when the trailer is empty. It's pretty much a meaningless number. I'll let everyone else recommend whether SRW or Dually.

A 3500 SRW can pull it, but having one, I would recommend a dually for the FW you are considering.  Montanas are considered heavy in th FW world.

RAWR of more accurately the total capacity of two tires is your actual limiting factor.  But to answer your basic question I would never consider anything less than a 350/3500 dually.  In reality being so close to limits I would really opt for a 450/4500 series truck to be sure I had enough.

You will be fine with a 3500 SRW. Pin weight is important to know what you can carry in GVWR.  You are around 17,000 trailer fully loaded and maxed. The 2017 SRW is rated for 21,000 LBS so yr 4000 under maxed out. 

Don't know which one you should buy, however there are two advantages with a dually.

1. More stability when you are towing, especially in high winds.

2. If you have a rear tire blow out you still have one tire left to get you pulled off the road.

That said I have noticed that about 10% of the dually trucks I see have banged up rear fenders. 

Dually.

If for anything else.. The Stability. Not to mention the loaded/laden ride. 60 psi in 4 rears tends to ride better than 70-80 psi in 2 ?

Jus' my 03. 

Big Joe and I must come from similar cuts of cloth. That's a good sized trailer you are wanting to pull. Will an F350 6.7 pull it? Absolutely. Would I do that? No, but it's because of my own personal comfort level, and the desire to have that "little extra" margin in almost all I do. Not to mention you are in Texas. Heat and speed does weird and unpredictable things to rubber (tires). Zipping down the interstate at 70 or so on a hot day with a good load is hard on tires. As stated, an extra set of tires on the back gives a nice safety margin. But I truly understand not wanting to drive a dually for a daily driver in traffic if you aren't used to it. Anyway, personal choice, but with the trailer you are getting ready to tow (very nice by the way) , I too would want a dually. Sorry, probably not what you want to hear.

Boonieman said:

Big Joe and I must come from similar cuts of cloth. That's a good sized trailer you are wanting to pull. Will an F350 6.7 pull it? Absolutely. Would I do that? No, but it's because of my own personal comfort level, and the desire to have that "little extra" margin in almost all I do. Not to mention you are in Texas. Heat and speed does weird and unpredictable things to rubber (tires). Zipping down the interstate at 70 or so on a hot day with a good load is hard on tires. As stated, an extra set of tires on the back gives a nice safety margin. But I truly understand not wanting to drive a dually for a daily driver in traffic if you aren't used to it. Anyway, personal choice, but with the trailer you are getting ready to tow (very nice by the way) , I too would want a dually. Sorry, probably not what you want to hear.

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Hmmm. Not in Texas.. California ?  Not wanting to pull, not getting ready to tow.. towed this one for 2 years now ?

Personal choice on.. To Dually, or Not to Dually. Totally Your Call ?

Big Joe. My comments were for the person asking dually or not. I was agreeing with your previous opinions you posted, as well as other comments you've made on some other subjects. Not quite sure I understood your last post. Sorry for any confusion.

That Montana, fully loaded to its GVWR, is going to place 20-25% of its actual loaded weight on the hitch pin, and that's a hefty number.  Given the UVW and cargo capacity stated in the opening message, that means the truck has to carry about 20% of 13,470 + 3745. That comes to 3443 lbs and that is potentially at the upper limit of what some F350 SRWs can carry. It depends on the trim level, cab style, bed length, etc., and the Ford spec sheet shows SRW cargo capacities ranging from a low of 2900 lbs all the way to 4370 for the popular XLT trim.

So the net is that to choose the SRW you need to carefully evaluate what configuration options you will choose vs the probable pin weight of that Montana. Some SRWs will handle it, and some will not.

The specs for the various F350 configurations are covered in great detail on the Ford site. Here's a link to the XLT numbers, but it's easy to switch models if you are interested in a higher or lower trim level.
http://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/2017/models/f350-xlt/

Gary covered much of what I was to say.  Your FW gross wt is 17,000#, and the pin wt is included in that number.  Consider the FW weight, loaded to camp, on a scale by itself.  When traveling, 20% - 25% of that weight, or 3400# + will be riding on the truck as pin weight.  The remainder will be carried by the FW axles.

Depending on option package and configuration, you will be just under or just over this weight for payload with a SRW F350.  PLEASE NOTE:  The reference in Gary's post is very helpful, but it shows weights for a specific configuration, but NOT trim.  The weight for an XL and King Ranch, same configuration, are the same in this chart.  Weight of options is not included in these charts.

The real Payload for a specific truck can be found on the driver door latch post on a yellow label.  It is correct for THAT truck as it left the factory.

Since you travel with only a driver, no passengers and no cargo, you MAY be able to get by with a F350 SRW.  For a bare bones XL crew cab long bed 4X2 diesel, the payload is 4100#  I will estimate 300# of options on an XLT, so the payload drops to 3800#.  (On my '13 F350 Lariat, options added over 500# to the base wt.)

You need a minimum payload of (3400# pin wt + 200# for a FW hitch + 200#?? for the driver =) 3800#.

As others have said, that is a big - and very nice - FW.  I believe you will be much happier with a DRW and a 6650# payload. (F350 DRW CC, LB, diesel 4X2 XLT).

Boonieman said:

Big Joe. My comments were for the person asking dually or not. I was agreeing with your previous opinions you posted, as well as other comments you've made on some other subjects. Not quite sure I understood your last post. Sorry for any confusion.

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My bad.... after re-reading. I didn't catch the "Big Joe and I... part :-[

I Apologize.

We Press on ?

The limiting factor is the rear axle weight rating which can be found on the driver door frame. Your max towing capacity and GCWR may be OK but I suspect the SRW rear axle weight rating may be too low for the trailer you are speaking of. Without knowing the specific numbers, I suspect you may need the dually.

I would say that the deciding factor is the load you would be putting on single wheels at highway speeds, along with the lateral stresses on those wheels when turning and running curves and city/expressway traffic.

you anticipate 20,000# (LOL you know it'll be higher on a long trip) and the max of the truck you're looking at is 21,000# that is 95% of the vehicle rating. That is full time work on the motor, transmission, brakes and frame. the magic number is 60-75%. You should consider a 26000-27000# vehicle

aquadave said:

you anticipate 20,000# (LOL you know it'll be higher on a long trip) and the max of the truck you're looking at is 21,000# that is 95% of the vehicle rating. That is full time work on the motor, transmission, brakes and frame. the magic number is 60-75%. You should consider a 26000-27000# vehicle

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These components are the same between a 350 SRW and a 350 dually which is rated for 40,000 GCWR.

From Big Joe---> We Press on ?

Absolutely!!  Looking forward to further agreements, or even respectful differences of opinion.  ?

Boonieman

Boonieman said:

From Big Joe---> We Press on ?

Absolutely!!  Looking forward to further agreements, or even respectful differences of opinion.  ?

Boonieman

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Absolutely  Love these Forums 

Please keep in mind that it is not only the weight but the length of the FW.  My 3500 SRW has a payload of 4,070, and as I said before, I would not feel comfortable pulling that Montana all over the country with it.  Get a dually and you will not regret it.