New Toyo Tires - Mind put at ease

Yesterday we put on a new set of Toyo M143 tires, size 245/70R19.5, on my 2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U.  We had them install balancing beads and move the best used tire to the spare (which was original 15 years old). The installed tires were right at 7 years old and did not show any particular problems (Goodyear) but did not look that great on the tread anyway (30K miles on them).  Cost of the new set out the door was $2160 with the base price of each tire being $299.61 plus the installs, beads and taxes.

Hit the road and immediately felt a lot of thumping but that went away as the beads set themselves.  As soon as I hit the interstate to go home (20 miles) I noticed a lot of wandering and jerking about.  The wife was following in her car and reported the back end was really jerking about.  By the time I got the coach back to the storage unit it seemed to have lessened a bit but was still giving some jerks at inopportune times. When I got out, the first thing I noticed was the wind, very gusty.  Did some research last night and found on another forum a good discussion on new tires, especially Toyos, and many others experiencing exactly what I had.  The good news, it all goes away with a bit of seasoning - a few hundred miles - and adjustment of air pressures.  The shop had put 95 psi in the fronts and 100 psi in the rears.  I never ran that much with the old Goodyears  85 front, 90 rears.  So I will be reducing the pressures and hope after a few short trips to Branson, the old road feel comes back.  Everyone who posted on that forum thread reported good results in the end and one UPS guy said he dreaded everytime they put new tires on his truck - it wandered like crazy.

If anybody else has had problems with Toyos in the 19.5 size, I would like to hear about them.  I did check the manufacture date of these tires (DEC2016) before letting them get installed and considered that reasonable.  One thing I did not ask in advance and got an evasive answer when I paid the bill is warranty - what is it?  So I need to do more research on that for sure - my bad in not determining it before purchase.

Yes, I will be weighing it to determine the correct  pressures for each position.

Bill

Tires in this size range generally come under the Commercial Tire Warranty rather than a consumer retail warranty.  For info on the Toyo Commercial Tire warranty, see https://www.toyotires.com/commercial/customer-care/warranty

It's similar to other large tire manufacturer commercial tire warranties.
Load/inflation data can be obtained at: https://www.toyotires.com/commercial/customer-care/application-technical-data

If heard a few other stories about initial noise on Toyos but did not experience that myself with the M144 295/80R22.5's I installed on my former coach.

These days tire dealers often set the tire pressure for max load, presumably to avoid any accusation of under-inflation. That's legal fallout from the Ford Explorer Firestone tire debacle back around year 2000. Firestone took a big hot over that. Other tire shops simply use a one-size-fits-all psi. Few even consider tire loading weight, let alone actually measure it. Or even look at the federal tire placard that is now part of every vehicle.

All tires need to break -in you learn that more with motorcycles and lots of bikers wreck on new tires.  I'm not a fan of bead balancing it's more for show-case wheels so no weights are seen. They will never be as good as a high speed balance. I do like most Japanese tires, they are softer for a better ride but they also wear out faster. Price, ride and longevity are always a compromise. I've had Toyo tires and liked them 

I just had a set of Yokohama tires installed on my coach, with beads and never seemed to have that problem. The local goodyear commercial tire shop did mine and also put too much air in them even after I told them what I wanted to run in them. They are used to airing the tires for maximum loads as they pretty much just work on semis here. The date code on my tires is 4216, so I was pleased with that. The cost on mine were $1771.68 shipped to my house and installation was $541.38 245/75/R22.5  so I thought was pretty good.

The manger here said they only balance with beads for the last several years in large tires. My coach still had the original tires on it from 2003, hard as a rock. So my new tires made a world of difference in ride and handling. Don't have a spare and really no place to put one, unless I want to use a bay to put one. I don't think I could change one anyways.   

  Weigh your rig and inflate the tires appropriately. You may be running underinflated tires to get a better ride.

  Sometimes overinflated tires will wander and sometimes underinflated tires will wander, but properly inflated tires don't. At 20,000# I run 105psi in the fronts and 110psi  in the rears.

A little followup.  Warranty - I contacted Toyo and they gave me the info that Gary mentioned above (Thanks Gary).  But I went back to the shop anyway because when I went to write down the DOT numbers, only one was mounted on the outside of the tire and being a rainy day, I wasn't about to crawl under in the dirt.  No doubt the duals would have the DOT # facing each other.  The dealer told me that that one number I had would be the same on all 6 tires  - the only difference would be the manufacture date.  Then I told them the Dec 16 date they had told me on the phone (before mounting) was baloney - the date I had was more like 3616 (late Aug/early Sept) meaning another 4 months.  It may not make a difference for several reasons - the coach is 15 years old and I doubt I will have it that long.  The tires are guaranteed 66 months from PURCHASE (according to Toyo) but one warranty brochure says from date of MFG.  But on my trip back to the dealer, I talked to the owner who was very nice and explained a lot that the counter slub was not bothering with.  Overall, I am happy with the tires, the price and the fact that the warranty is good enough for me.  I have scoured several forums and have yet to find any real bad words on Toyos.

Bill

What country were your tires made in? My first set was made in the USA and the last set, which I purchased about a year ago, were made in China.

According to the dealers description sheet these were made in Japan.

The tires are guaranteed 66 months from PURCHASE (according to Toyo) but one warranty brochure says from date of MFG.

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If you have proof of purchase, the warranty starts on the in-service (purchase) date. If you do not have the proof, the warranty defaults to start on the manufactured date shown on the sidewall (DOT date).

Toyo itself is a Japanese company, but Toyo (and most other international tire companies) has factories around the world, including China & the USA. Different sizes or different models are often produced in different factories, so you cannot generalize where a company gets its tires.  They may also use independent tire factories under contract, but typically the tire company will send their engineering and quality control people there to make sure the tires made under contract meet their standards.

As usual, that makes sense Gary.  I have the purchase receipt so I will assume the 66 months from purchase which adds about another 6 months from manufacture.  Thanks.

Bill

Gary RV_Wizard said:

If you have proof of purchase, the warranty starts on the in-service (purchase) date. If you do not have the proof, the warranty defaults to start on the manufactured date shown on the sidewall (DOT date).

Toyo itself is a Japanese company, but Toyo (and most other international tire companies) has factories around the world, including China & the USA. Different sizes or different models are often produced in different factories, so you cannot generalize where a company gets its tires.  They may also use independent tire factories under contract, but typically the tire company will send their engineering and quality control people there to make sure the tires made under contract meet their standards.

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  I realize this is an old post but while looking for new Toyo tires I came across a Toyo website that claimed the tires I am searching for,  model M154 in 265 x 75R 22.5 , are made entirely in their Georgia USA plant.  Interesting since my last ones were made in Japan.

A couple things that can affect that then my expierence with toyos

1: Tire inflation. Some shops do not put in enough air. the proper inflation depends on how much weight the tire is carrying.

2: You may need to add a Trac Bar to the RV.


I had Toyos put on last fall. with beads. same as you..  NO problems ZIP. zero, NADA handling is same as with the Michelin XRVs.  The only difference is last trip south with the XRV's there was a loud BOOM and...  Well since this is a TIRE thread you likely know what that meant (New tire time).

I realize that I never posted an update to this thread.  When I brought the coach back to storage after new tire install I mentioned that it did not drive very well (in the OP) but it was pouring rain so I drove it right into the covered storage and closed the door.  A few weeks later I went back to get it out and bring it home for getting it dewinterized and ready to go.  I drove it out of storage without checking the TPMS and headed the two miles for home.  It was not driving very good and at about the one mile point I saw smoke coming from the left rear duals.  I pulled it into a side street and found that both new tires were totally flat and partially off the rims. Evidentally they had lost all air while in storage.
Recalling the original trip home from the tire shop I got to thinking that they were losing air on that whole 14 mile trip. I put the coach away and they evidently lost the rest of the air.  The problem was on the left and I had walked down the right side to get in the coach and drove it out of storage and about a mile before the real problem manifested itself.
Coach Net came to the rescue with two new tires and a nice bill which I paid. Then I went back to the tire shop with the ruined tires and took it up with the owner who tried to tell me it was not his problem.  So I mentioned small claims court and any other reports I could make to better business agencies as well as any other way I could find to put their name out there.  Then he decided that maybe he could split the bill with me. After thinking that half of this was probably my fault, I accepted the offer and took his money and learned a lesson.
That lesson:  Always check your tires for sufficient air - Never assume.

Bill

How do you like the Toyos?  I have to replace my steer tires and the Michelins have gone up over $100 since last I bought them in 2014.  The Toyos are over are over $100 less.

John From Detroit said:

A couple things that can affect that then my expierence with toyos

1: Tire inflation. Some shops do not put in enough air. the proper inflation depends on how much weight the tire is carrying.

2: You may need to add a Trac Bar to the RV.


I had Toyos put on last fall. with beads. same as you..  NO problems ZIP. zero, NADA handling is same as with the Michelin XRVs.  The only difference is last trip south with the XRV's there was a loud BOOM and...  Well since this is a TIRE thread you likely know what that meant (New tire time).

Click to expand...

I put new Toyos on the front of my rig a year ago.  No issues in out 8,000 mile adventure last summer.  Going to get 4 more for the duals this spring.  I like them.  Goodyears came off.

Toyo makes an excellent tire. I've used them on the steer axle of my former DP.

Last April when my Michelin's went bad after 6 years I replaced them with Toyo"s and haven't noticed any difference.

Those are great observations, thanks.  I just ordered a set for the fronts.  Thanks

When I put on new tires last OCT I put on Toyos.. So far I have found on "Negative" comment about them note the use of quotes.. And on a sale of 10 for RV this this is about a 0.1 (Not much of a negative) for Semi drivers it's a big deal

They do not last as many miles

But in 10 years I did not half wear out my Mitchlins.. and I doubt I'll half wear out my Toyos.  Other than that. (Tread life in miles) they are so close as to be no difference.

And you will NEVER wear out the tread unless... Well Google fastest RV in the US.. THEY may wear out the tread on the drive tires some day.. but then not many race for the record.

I have really nothing to add except to say I've had Michelin's on my 40DP DOT dated 2014 and 27,000 miles with no issues. One inside dully ran flat for a mile due to an improperly installed TPMS sensor. The road side assist guy who aired it up said he didn't think it ran long enough to damage it. That was 15,000 miles ago.