Yet another truck v trailer question.

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samthetramp

samthetramp

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I know there are multiple threads on here asking 1 form of this question or another but here goes. Due to recent events I will be looking to buy a new to me truck that will be my daily driver as well as my tow vehicle. I currently have a 05 1500 Silverado pulling a 29' Tracer executive. Truck is becoming unreliable and being I travel all over for work it must be replaced. I know I'm going diesel and would like to be able to get away with a 3/4 ton simply to keep maintenance costs down. I want to in the next year or so upgrade to a 5er as well because I am in this camper more than my house and I would like the extra living and storage space. I use it as opposed to staying in motels.

That being said I don't know what the future weight of the next camper will be but need to look at a truck now. I would like the 5er to be in the 30-35' range and must be a 4 season rated. It will be used yet as new as I can afford. My question is what would be the weight range I should be looking at when considering towing capacities. I don't need a bunk house set up as its just me mostly until the wife visits.

I really need some help on this one.

Thanks
 
When I was making the truck decision, I ultimately decided on a diesel 1-ton rather than a 3/4 ton for several reasons.  The 1-ton wasn't any larger than the 3/4 ton, so as a daily driver, there wasn't a liability there. (for this reason, I also decided on SRW instead of DRW).  I wanted the flexibility the 1-ton would give me to be able to haul larger trailers/loads.  The fuel mileage between the two didn't look much different to me.  And I didn't see any reason maintenance of the 1 ton would cost more.  Maybe there is one - but I didn't (and still don't) see it.

Now, looking at possibly upgrading to a 5er, I'm glad I got the 1-ton.  Even so, there are some nice 5ers out there that will push or exceed the limits of my 1-ton.  I would need DRW for those and I don't want to take the 13" increased width hit in non-towing driving.

So one suggestion would be to look at a few of the nicer, heavier, "4-season" 5ers out there and see what their GVWRs are.  Arctic Fox comes to mind, along with Grand Design.  The sticking points I kept running across for nice 5ers are GCWR and pin weight vs the cargo capacity and GAWR for the rear axle of my truck.  So keep a close eye on those. My 1-ton has a GCWR of 23,200 for a 5er and weighs about 7,600, so I'm limited to a 5er GVWR of about 15,600 minus wife, dog, hitch and stuff in the bed of the truck.  That would give me a pin weight of around 3200 lbs, which would put me pretty close to my rear GAWR.  There are lots of nice 5ers out there around 18,000 lbs GVWR.  Too much for my 1-ton.

That said, I believe some newer 3/4 tons have more capacity than older ones, so you might do okay with one.  But if you want a wider range in options for your 5er, you might want to consider a 1-ton.
 
I would strongly urge you to look at a 1 ton SRW.  I know the GM/Chevy and Ford trucks have virtually identical size specs on the ? ton vs the 1 ton in their lines.  I am more familiar with Fords, but even the standard equipment and option packages are almost identical.  The 1 ton has a heavier spring pack and higher GVWR, thus higher payload by nearly 1500# when comparing similarly equipped trucks.  Since they both come with the same engine and transmission packages, fuel mileage should be nearly identical.

Prices on used, late model lower mileage units for the F250 and F350 are very similar.  Payload and towing capacity are significantly different.

In my specific case, I bought a F350 super cab diesel 4X4 SRW long bed Lariat used.  My truck weighs right at 8,000# and the yellow label is 3453# payload.  After deducting 400# for passengers and pets and 40# for the Andersen hitch, I have 3000# left for pin weight, or a 15,000# GVWR  FW.  This eliminates a few higher end and long FW, but leaves MANY good choices available.

Keep us informed of your progress.
 
You need a 1 ton for the size of FW you are thinking.  I tried mine 34 FW with a 2500 HD Silverado and was not happy.  Even my DW told me we needed a bigger truck.  My 3500 RAM SRW diesel has a payload sticker of 4070.  Now is very easy to pull the FW.
 
I totally agree that a 1-ton is a better choice for a 30 - 35' 5er.  There are some combinations of 3/4 Ton trucks and 30+' 5ers that can be made to work within their stated limits, but why go there?

The premise of preferring a 3/4 Ton over a 1 Ton to "keep maintenance costs down" is one I'd recommend the OP research further.  I'm not seeing why they'd be significantly different.  I'm no expert, but I'm under the impression the main difference between the two is the suspension.  So why not get a 1-ton and the extra capacity that provides?  Especially since to get the max capacity of a 3/4 ton, you need a fairly stripped-down model.

Somebody on this forum once said, "Nobody ever got into trouble having too much truck."  Truer words were ne'er spoke.
 
I don't think there is any difference on maintenance between a 2500 and 3500 diesel.  Other than oil and filter, mine has required only the replacement of the fuel filters( 2 of them in a Cummins) every 15,000 miles.
 
Within a manufacturer line, the ? ton and 1 ton trucks have exactly the same engine and transmission.  Maintenance costs should be identical.
 
redneckgearhead said:
It's rarely a problem to have more truck than trailer, but it's almost always a problem to have to much trailer for your truck.
Click to expand...
We learned that the hard way. ;D We want to upgrade our fiver in a year or two or when we win the lottery (whichever comes first) but will be limited to 10,000 lb unless I upgrade my license which I am not prepared to do. Our 2500 ctd will handle that nicely.
 
FYI

One aspect that I didn't see discussed is the turning radius and ease of parking a long bed crew cab 1 ton.  I have one and unless the newer trucks are better at it than mine.  You really have serious maneuverability issues when off the trailer and just running to the store for groceries.  You almost can't park in normal straight in parking slots in parking lots and some times angled slots are not much better.  You truly need 40 acres to turn this rig around.

It's a minor aspect of owning the whole rig, but it is worthy of considering.  My last spot I had to have a friend put my trailer on the spot using his F-250 as mine just would not make the tight turn necessary to get it in in the confined space we had to work with.

My truck is pretty close to 26' long.
 
Tom Hoffman said:
One aspect that I didn't see discussed is the turning radius and ease of parking a long bed crew cab 1 ton. 
Click to expand...
I think you're right, Tom - the whole turning & parking thing is an important consideration, especially for a daily driver. I believe that's a function of the truck being a long bed crew cab rather than it being a 1 ton.  I would think a 3/4 ton long bed crew cab (same make and year) would have the same problem.  But I believe 1-tons have fewer options for shorter wheelbases than 3/4 tons, so that does come into play.

That said, my 2006 Silverado CC long bed has a slightly shorter turning radius than my old '93 Ford Extended Cab.  I don't know if it's because it's newer or if there's a significant difference between makes of vehicles, or both.
 
Tom Hoffman said:
FYI

One aspect that I didn't see discussed is the turning radius and ease of parking a long bed crew cab 1 ton.  I have one and unless the newer trucks are better at it than mine.  You really have serious maneuverability issues when off the trailer and just running to the store for groceries.  You almost can't park in normal straight in parking slots in parking lots and some times angled slots are not much better.  You truly need 40 acres to turn this rig around.

It's a minor aspect of owning the whole rig, but it is worthy of considering.  My last spot I had to have a friend put my trailer on the spot using his F-250 as mine just would not make the tight turn necessary to get it in in the confined space we had to work with.

My truck is pretty close to 26' long.
Click to expand...

You're comparing your truck to newer ones though. I owned a 2002 F-350 crew cab, long bed and it was a pain to maneuver. This was because of the leaf spring suspension in the front. They acted as the limited factor in turning as the tires would hit them if allowed to turn further.

With the coil spring front suspension nowadays, the turning radius' are much tighter. In fact, my crew cab, long bed dually is able to fit in the parking garage at Denver International Airport, something that was only a pipe dream with my F-350.

The turning circle of my 2002 F-350 was 60'. The turning circle of my new Ram is 50'.
 
Old Blevins said:
I totally agree that a 1-ton is a better choice for a 30 - 35' 5er.  There are some combinations of 3/4 Ton trucks and 30+' 5ers that can be made to work within their stated limits, but why go there?

The premise of preferring a 3/4 Ton over a 1 Ton to "keep maintenance costs down" is one I'd recommend the OP research further.  I'm not seeing why they'd be significantly different.  I'm no expert, but I'm under the impression the main difference between the two is the suspension.  So why not get a 1-ton and the extra capacity that provides?  Especially since to get the max capacity of a 3/4 ton, you need a fairly stripped-down model.

Somebody on this forum once said, "Nobody ever got into trouble having too much truck."  Truer words were ne'er spoke.
Click to expand...
This is a discussion that I find myself in all the time.  I'm now on my 5th F350SRW (now in a 2017) and have never even considered a 3/4 ton, because I couldn't get my mind to allow me to buy a truck that is derated, but looks exactly the same. 
So far, the very best argument for the 3/4 ton crowd that I have seen/heard is that in some states you have to pay more in taxes for a 1 ton compared to a 3/4 ton.  That's it. 
Some try to say that 3/4 tons ride better.  Ummm no, no they don't. Maybe if you're looking at 10+ year old trucks.  Today's trucks have the same main leaf packs (unless you add certain packages),  the difference is the one tons have bigger/more overload springs.
Usually I get the "3/4 ton is all I need". Okay, but life changes and if you get down the road a piece and find yourself staring at a trailer that eclipses your truck's capacity you are going to be wishing you got that 1 ton for a minimal amount of extra cash. 
How many times do we read the old "will my 3/4 ton pull this 15,500lb rv with 3500lbs of pin weight?  Looks like I have to upgrade my truck"? That's right,  too often. 
 
Tom Hoffman said:
FYI

One aspect that I didn't see discussed is the turning radius and ease of parking a long bed crew cab 1 ton.  I have one and unless the newer trucks are better at it than mine.  You really have serious maneuverability issues when off the trailer and just running to the store for groceries.  You almost can't park in normal straight in parking slots in parking lots and some times angled slots are not much better.  You truly need 40 acres to turn this rig around.

It's a minor aspect of owning the whole rig, but it is worthy of considering.  My last spot I had to have a friend put my trailer on the spot using his F-250 as mine just would not make the tight turn necessary to get it in in the confined space we had to work with.

My truck is pretty close to 26' long.
Click to expand...
I think your tape measure is missing 3 feet off the front end.  Crew cab long boxes are 23' on the long end.
I've been driving long bed crew cabs for many years, the best thing you can do is back it in whenever you park.  If you're trying to pull into and out of every parking spot, you are going to get frustrated a lot.  By backing in, you can use your mirrors to see everything you need on the sides and pulling out is a breeze. 
Also, yes, the newer trucks have a much tighter turning circle than yours, simply because they went to coil springs in the front as opposed to Leafs.  The F450 pickups have a wide track front end that allows an incredibly tight turning radius for the size it is.
 
I may have mis measured, but mine does have a front brush bar that sticks out almost 2' forward. 

You always have to have one guy picking the fly poop out of the pepper.

I have found that people who want to park too, kind of frown at you pulling in only to have to wait while you get lined up to back in or I can angle park across 2 or 3 Handicapped parking spots,  now that raised the ire factor a bit. 

I normally solve it by parking out away after dropping SWAMBO off in front of the store and retire to the out lying part of the lot with a good book.

Tom...
 

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Old Blevins said:
When I was making the truck decision, I ultimately decided on a diesel 1-ton rather than a 3/4 ton for several reasons.  The 1-ton wasn't any larger than the 3/4 ton, so as a daily driver, there wasn't a liability there. (for this reason, I also decided on SRW instead of DRW).  I wanted the flexibility the 1-ton would give me to be able to haul larger trailers/loads.  The fuel mileage between the two didn't look much different to me.  And I didn't see any reason maintenance of the 1 ton would cost more.  Maybe there is one - but I didn't (and still don't) see it.

Now, looking at possibly upgrading to a 5er, I'm glad I got the 1-ton.  Even so, there are some nice 5ers out there that will push or exceed the limits of my 1-ton.  I would need DRW for those and I don't want to take the 13" increased width hit in non-towing driving.

So one suggestion would be to look at a few of the nicer, heavier, "4-season" 5ers out there and see what their GVWRs are.  Arctic Fox comes to mind, along with Grand Design.  The sticking points I kept running across for nice 5ers are GCWR and pin weight vs the cargo capacity and GAWR for the rear axle of my truck.  So keep a close eye on those. My 1-ton has a GCWR of 23,200 for a 5er and weighs about 7,600, so I'm limited to a 5er GVWR of about 15,600 minus wife, dog, hitch and stuff in the bed of the truck.  That would give me a pin weight of around 3200 lbs, which would put me pretty close to my rear GAWR.  There are lots of nice 5ers out there around 18,000 lbs GVWR.  Too much for my 1-ton.

That said, I believe some newer 3/4 tons have more capacity than older ones, so you might do okay with one.  But if you want a wider range in options for your 5er, you might want to consider a 1-ton.
Click to expand...

Great advice here OP.
 
Tom Hoffman said:
I may have mis measured, but mine does have a front brush bar that sticks out almost 2' forward. 

You always have to have one guy picking the fly poop out of the pepper.

I have found that people who want to park too, kind of frown at you pulling in only to have to wait while you get lined up to back in or I can angle park across 2 or 3 Handicapped parking spots,  now that raised the ire factor a bit. 

I normally solve it by parking out away after dropping SWAMBO off in front of the store and retire to the out lying part of the lot with a good book.

Tom...
Click to expand...

Sweet ride!  I wish I had kept mine in that good of shape. The powertrain was perfect but the body and interior were really starting to show their age.
 
I was under the impression that the brakes were bigger ie more expensive on a ton than a 3/4 then there's the extra 2 tires on a DRW. The brakes evidently are the same so that's out and 2 extra tires about every 3 years isn't a deal breaker. I'm more than familiar with the large turning radius of longer trucks as I am a lineman. My current bucket truck has the turning radius of a 747.

How short of a bed could I get away with to not be worried about hitting the trucks cab and not have to have a sliding hitch mounted? Also is the difference between SRW and DRW ton trucks that big that I should be looking at DRW's only since I don't know what the future camper will weigh?

Thanks for all of the great advice so far. This purchase is a big deal to me. I get indigestion every time I think about paying that much for a truck.
 
samthetramp said:
I was under the impression that the brakes were bigger ie more expensive on a ton than a 3/4 then there's the extra 2 tires on a DRW. The brakes evidently are the same so that's out and 2 extra tires about every 3 years isn't a deal breaker. I'm more than familiar with the large turning radius of longer trucks as I am a lineman. My current bucket truck has the turning radius of a 747.

How short of a bed could I get away with to not be worried about hitting the trucks cab and not have to have a sliding hitch mounted? Also is the difference between SRW and DRW ton trucks that big that I should be looking at DRW's only since I don't know what the future camper will weigh?

Thanks for all of the great advice so far. This purchase is a big deal to me. I get indigestion every time I think about paying that much for a truck.
Click to expand...

As far as how short of a bed you can have before needing a slider, I think a lot of that will be determined by the shape of the nose on the fifth wheel. More and more companies are designing the noses to have the necessary turning clearances with short beds.

Regarding DRW vs. SRW, how big of a trailer do you anticipate getting? My toy hauler has a loaded pin weight around 4,000 lbs. which would put any SRW against the tire capacities.

For me, daily driving a DRW is not an issue. My commute is 15 miles of interstate and a mile of surface streets. It sounds like you've probably been driving dually trucks for a long time so, if you can justify one to pull your camper, I would say go for it!
 
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