GVWR. - How could this possibly work?

E450 with a GVWR OF 14,050lbs.  Unloaded vehicle weight says 12,577lbs.  Leaves me with 1,473lbs.

Figure in tongue weight of a tow at roughly 450 - 500lbs leaves me about 1000lbs.  There are 8 seat belts but let's say we are hauling 4 slim adults at 160 lbs (640lbs total). That leaves me with 360lbs.  38 gallons of water would be about 315 lbs.  This leaves me with a hefty 44lbs for gear, clothes, tools and food.

Do I not understand something?  If I had 8 adults at 200lbs I would be overweight before they put their shirt on.

It also has "Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating of 616 pounds.  Where and why did they come up with that?

I am going to put a new roof sealant on that will probably add 100 pounds to the weight.  How could the manufacturer figure this was correct???  They know people buy these to travel in right????

KandT said:

This leaves me with a hefty 44lbs for gear, clothes, tools and food.

Do I not understand something?  If I had 8 adults at 200lbs I would be overweight before they put their shirt on.

It also has "Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating of 616 pounds.  Where and why did they come up with that?

How could the manufacturer figure this was correct???  They know people buy these to travel in right????

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They don't care and they're hoping you don't notice. Read the article below - lucky you have a whopping 44 pounds to play with. Choose from either food or gear/clothes:

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,102596.msg924393.html#msg924393

You need a class A with the ability to haul a lot more weight.

Sun2Retire said:

They don't care and they're hoping you don't notice. Read the article below - lucky you have a whopping 44 pounds to play with. Choose from either food or gear/clothes:

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,102596.msg924393.html#msg924393

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Crazy - I read the link.  I would think that would leave the manufacturer with a big liability to sell an RV that is over weight before you load it! 

The RV industry is all about making $. There needs to be regulations, they are out of control.

If I understand the numbers correctly it seems there are a lot of unsafe vehicles out on the road.  We pack pretty light and wear items until we stink ? And buy food at local grocery stores also don't carry any more water than a few flushes but tools are heavy and I am sure there are plenty of people who pack to the max - I see them on the road all the time.  No wonder you hear of some RV's needing a new tranny at 40k!

If you are towing a vehicle (not on a trailer), that doesn't put any load on the hitch. Otherwise you've got it figured out; SOL!

Ernie

Ernie n Tara said:

If you are towing a vehicle (not on a trailer), that doesn't put any load on the hitch. Otherwise you've got it figured out; SOL!

Ernie

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Dolly tow - don't know the weight but I can't begin to pick it up with the vehicle on.

Plus most of the packing space is behind the rear wheel - I am guessing every pound you put on the hitch takes a good amount of weight off the front tires.  Same with water and the "pass through" main storage area.

I keep telling people that any large Class C has too much body weight/size for the van chassis, but they buy them anyway. The RV glitz and familiarity of the van style cab wins them over.  You can only put so much RV on a limited size van chassis and anything in the 30 foot range is simply too much coach for a 14,500 lb GVWR. It is loaded near max from the git-go. I don't really blame the RV manufacturer for selling rigs that buyers seem to prefer, even if the buyers are largely ignorant. They also sell better equipped models, so whose fault is it that the buyer picked a skimpy one rather than full-featured?

SCWR is defined by the RVIA and explained in the RVForum Glossary. It is basically the number of sleeping positions advertised for the coach multiplied by 154 lbs (the 72 kg federal standard for average human weight). Apparently 4 people in your case. Back in 2006, RVIA standards for weight ratings were basically thus:  UVW + CCC + SCWR = GVWR.  Empty (Unladen) weight plus cargo plus passengers equals max gross weight. learn more about these terms at the Glossary link above.

A tow dolly rarely has more than 100-150 lbs on the hitch ball. It does not weigh like a trailer, even with the car on it.

Wireman134 said:

The RV industry is all about making $. There needs to be regulations, they are out of control.

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I too, when working, was all about $ why else does anyone work or go into business? As for MORE government regulations that add cost to whatever is regulated,  I don't need or, for that matter, want any further regulations... if a company isn't providing a safe product...DON"T BUY IT! How long do you think a company would be in business if its products didn't sell? The key to quality RV's rests in our hands, the consumer, truly, trouble is buyers don't care... they just want the biggest bang for their buck and you only get so much for a buck.  Why  I wonder do people buy an RV, sometimes after much research, then come on the forum and complain about quality, customer service, high cost of this and that yada, yada, yada... If your RV is so quality deficient why did you buy it in the first place?


It's me I know it... I can't help but wonder what the country would be like if people would take responsibility for their actions... and stop giving and getting trophy's for just showing up! Opps, that's a topic for another day, sorry. :-[  JMHO of course...

Keith

It would also be splendid if manufacturers would take responsibility for THEIR actions and not produce RVs which were "overloaded out the door"!

They know that many of their sales are to inexperienced buyers who have yet to learn the hard way about all the pitfalls of buying an RV.

When a manufacturer produces and sells something which is demonstrably unfit for it's purpose they should be forced to make it right. One of the latest RV magazines features a splendid B+ motorhome which when the average weight driver and passenger step in, is overloaded at that point, with no supplies, clothing, food at all!!!

"Overloaded" is a matter of degree and perception, though. Just because it is possible to put in more weight than it can handle doesn't mean it is "overloaded out the door".  Can you seriously expect to carry 8 adults in a 31 ft Class C coach? It's not a transit bus!  I can overload a pick-up truck too, simply by filling the truck bed with bricks or sand. Or a passenger car by stuffing large adults in all the seating.

That said, there have been RVs that are overloaded with just two adults onboard and a full fresh water tank. That fails the test of "fitness and merchantability" because the advertised intent was/is that two people can travel and be "self-contained".

Gary RVer Emeritus said:

"Overloaded" is a matter of degree and perception, though. Just because it is possible to put in more weight than it can handle doesn't mean it is "overloaded out the door".  Can you seriously expect to carry 8 adults in a 31 ft Class C coach? It's not a transit bus!  I can overload a pick-up truck too, simply by filling the truck bed with bricks or sand. Or a passenger car by stuffing large adults in all the seating.

That said, there have been RVs that are overloaded with just two adults onboard and a full fresh water tank. That fails the test of "fitness and merchantability" because the advertised intent was/is that two people can travel and be "self-contained".

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Thanks Gary.  I guess my question is whether or not there is expected engineered wiggle room.  I have hauled more in a half ton truck than 1000 pounds.  Really if you put 3 - 200 pound guys in a half ton truck there would only be 400 pounds left for cargo - not much at all. 

Now that I better understand the dolly weight (thanks Gary) and figure we don't travel with hardly any water, and figure we have 2 light kids we would be inside the limit but not by a lot.

kwbush said:

I too, when working, was all about $ why else does anyone work or go into business? As for MORE government regulations that add cost to whatever is regulated,  I don't need or, for that matter, want any further regulations... if a company isn't providing a safe product...DON"T BUY IT! How long do you think a company would be in business if its products didn't sell? The key to quality RV's rests in our hands, the consumer, truly, trouble is buyers don't care... they just want the biggest bang for their buck and you only get so much for a buck.  Why  I wonder do people buy an RV, sometimes after much research, then come on the forum and complain about quality, customer service, high cost of this and that yada, yada, yada... If your RV is so quality deficient why did you buy it in the first place?

It's me I know it... I can't help but wonder what the country would be like if people would take responsibility for their actions... and stop giving and getting trophy's for just showing up! Opps, that's a topic for another day, sorry. :-[  JMHO of course...

Keith

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As a mostly libertarian, I agree.  However, it is not unreasonable for a consumer to assume that the RV they are buying is built sufficiently to handle a reasonable load.  No different than assuming the seat belts will work.  I wouldn't blame the consumer if they had an accident and the seat belts broke.  The manufacturer is responsible for the seat belts to work in reasonable circumstances.  As they should be when they advertise an RV that sleeps eight but couldn't haul eight.

Class C and towing have never been a good mix when trying to stay under the numbers - just wait until you start looking at combined gross vehicle weight. 

Well. I do believe many Motor Homes are a bit anemic on GVW.

But you are trowing someting very heavy with that Ride.. I am assuming you are towing a car on a trailer.. or at least a dolly.. How about towing 4 Down, this gives you a hitch weight of .. Well, perhaps 30-50 pounds tops.  Saves you a hunk of CGVW as well (Combined gross)

Of course your "Towed" has to be 4-down-able.

KandT said:

As a mostly libertarian, I agree.  However, it is not unreasonable for a consumer to assume that the RV they are buying is built sufficiently to handle a reasonable load.  No different than assuming the seat belts will work.  I wouldn't blame the consumer if they had an accident and the seat belts broke.  The manufacturer is responsible for the seat belts to work in reasonable circumstances.  As they should be when they advertise an RV that sleeps eight but couldn't haul eight.

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Point taken... BUT do or do not the RV's being manufactured today meet your criterion? Ummmm, if they didn't RV's wouldn't be manufactured as nobody would buy the da_n things... I think humans being human just want to complain, complain, complain!
As for me I thank Fleetwood for building a product that met all my goals as an RV owner... would I like more... yes, but at the price I bought at, I'm more than satisfied... and when something breaks or I want a change, I, many years ago, got an education in all things mechanical so I could fix it myself.
As to the seatbelt analogy, They may or may not have achieved the desired goal... there is still a lot of differing opinions on that... One thing I know for sure, da_n sure, I don't like ANYONE MANDATING  I have to wear something for MY protection... I'm kinda a libertarian in that respect also... so anyway lets go camping...

;D 8) ??? :
Keith

Trust me Keith I will be a much more educated consumer on my next purchase!!  Excitement got me
On this one (first RV) and realistically I can haul a reasonable amount for my family - I just need to be aware that we aren't over doing it.

We don't haul much water and as Gary pointed out my dolly doesn't have as much tongue weight as I thought.  Class A with lots more storage and hauling next time!!

It's sort of an owner beware situation. Once you own it, it's your responsibility to insure it's properly loaded and balanced. Here is what NHTSA has said in a Q&A document.

Overloaded Recreational Vehicle (RV).

The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer?s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use.

However, it is not unreasonable for a consumer to assume that the RV they are buying is built sufficiently to handle a reasonable load.

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Doesn't it all come down to your definition of "reasonable"? Surely there is some room for differing opinions there.

If I build a car with seating room for up to five people, must I assume that all those people might be 300 lb adults and design the suspension accordingly? Or could maybe some of them be kids or pets?  For their safety tests, the federal government decided that a typical passenger would be assumed to weigh 72 kg (154 lbs), but we know that many people exceed that. If our needs are greater than average or typical, it is up to us to determine whether the item we buy will be adequate. The detailed specs are provided so we can do that.

What is "reasonable" for one buyer may be totally unrealistic for another. The buyer has to share some of the responsibility for buying enough for his needs.

That said, RV makers know well that more buyers are impressed with big tv screens and slick graphics than with a high GVWR, so they often design & build accordingly.