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Author Topic: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT  (Read 494 times)

Steve Peeters

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Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« on: May 10, 2017, 09:09:36 AM »
My DW and I our moving up from a 16' Scamp.  The trailer we are buying has a dry weight of 6,853 pounds and a GVWR of 10,000 pounds.  We expect to travel about 100 days per year, so we might pull the trailer only about 30 days of of the year, as we would be camped maybe 2/3 of the 100 days.  It will be my primary vehicle in addition to a tug.  Also, we have a 60# dog, just a bit smaller than a lab. I want the trailer to tow well, but I also want some comfort and decent mileage for general use.  We are going to get 2WD.  Additionally we want Navigation, back up camera, front bumper warning sensors, etc.  I am 69 and quite capable of scraping or bumping, so sensors and rear video are important.  Some questions follow:

Gas or diesel for my situation?

What brands are best?

What cab configuration works well for our dog who will ride in the back seat area?

Is leather seating out of the question with the dog?  Can rear seats be lifted up and the dog ride comfortably on the floor?

We test drove a new Ford F150 Eco Boost yesterday, would that be a good choice?

Your answers will be much appreciated, thanks for reading.

Alfa38User

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Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 10:57:51 AM »
An F150 is way to small for that 10K/30 ft.  trailer. You cannot go by published the capacity specs found in brochures and ads as they are usually based on the minimal configuration for any truck (options etc). The load carrying capacity varies greatly due to options chosen/supplied and must be taken into consideration. The best place to find the load capacity is on the yellow sticker found on the door jamb as it shows the capacity of that SPECIFIC truck as it left the factory. That number must then be 'worked' mathematically to find the true capacity by subtracting anything not included as coming from the factory.
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
Alfa Gold 38 (2000) 5ver (parked!)

"Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advise!!!"

RoyM

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Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 11:20:38 AM »
X2 We made the mistake of going with a marginal tow vehicle, it was not a pleasant experience. Mileage was terrible, it struggled on the hills and windy days were terrible. We now have a 2500 with the diesel which may not be suitable for your needs but we love it.
A four door with a fold down rear seat back should give your furry friend room to stretch out comfortably. I don't like leather, hot in the summer and cold in the winter, but that's just me.
Which brands are best? Don't go there, we are all passionate about our favorites. ;D Ford, GM, and Chrysler build fine trucks, drive them all and pick the one your wife likes.
Ram 2500 diesel
Prowler fifth wheel
Urge to travel

grashley

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  • Western KY for now.
Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 04:59:53 PM »
Very good advise above.  Allow me to be more specific.

Every vehicle built since 2009 has a Yellow banner label on the driver door latch post which specifies the maximum load that vehicle was designed to carry based on its weight as it left the factory.  This is just what it says: Maximum weight of all passengers and cargo shall not exceed XXXX lbs.

A TT with a GVWR of 10,000# will have a hitch weight of 1,000# - 1,100#, which is carried by the truck.  To this, add 80# for a WD hitch, the weight of all passengers, including the dog, and all other cargo carried in the truck - tools, dog food, fire wood, etc.  This total MUST BE less than this yellow label on your tow vehicle.  I will guess your total will be around 2,000#

You also stated a 30 ft TT.  I seriously doubt any ½ ton pickup with a Super Cab or Crew Cab with the options you want will handle either the weight or the 30 ft "sail".  It is simply too light for the job.  You are clearly in ¾ ton territory.

As for brand, Roy stated it correctly.  Drive all three and get the one your wife likes.  All are solid, reliable trucks.

Gas or diesel?  It depends.  If most of your towing is in the mountains, you will probably appreciate the low end torque of the diesel.  Otherwise, gas will do fine.  It is also $8K cheaper!  If your local driving is relatively short trips, it is another vote for gas.  Diesels are great for the long haul, but not for the short trips.

Back Seat:  I have a Super Cab, which has a back seat and back doors that only open when the front door is open.  It is great for what I wanted.  It can carry passengers, but it does not have great leg room.  The seats DO fold up.  I'm sure the dog would be quite happy there.  The crew cab is similar with more leg room and conventional doors.

Trim Level is all about what the front seat occupants want.  When the seats fold up, they will protect the seat back from the dog.  Unless the dog likes to scratch things, I suspect the leather would be easier to clean!  In fact, with some of the safety options you want, you may need a higher trim that comes with leather.

Thanks for asking.  Please ask for any other information you may need.
Preacher Gordon
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS - not yet received
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

Dreamsend

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  • Posts: 151
Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 05:04:22 PM »
Why not consider moving up to a Ford F250 ? -- you really do need more than the F150 for the 8,000# plus your trailer (plus hitch) will weigh once you're on the road.  F250 does not have an eco boost option, but comes as a gas or diesel engine V 8.

I researched the same class Northwood RVs you're considering (and will get one about the same size next year) and initially looked at the F150 (properly equipped) to tow it -- no matter how many times I crunched the weight numbers, the results told me it's just not big/powerful enough to safely and enjoyably haul around that much weight.  Especially in wind and even moderate mountain terrain.

So, the result was I went with the F250 and just got the new truck yesterday and posted about it (under Meet the Beast) if you're interested in the specifications I went with to tow a trailer in the same weight category and build you're looking at.  Nice choice of trailer BTW.  Linda
Linda with kitties Sarah & Samson
2017 Ford F250 Lariat aka Gypsy Rose

donn

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Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 05:45:02 PM »
Cost wise a 2500 Ram or ford would be my choice.  Rams seem to have a far better interior, and pricing is much better. While fuel economy may not be as good towing, non towing, especially around town the gasser would be a better choice.  As for configuration?  Crew cab long bed would be my first choice.  Adding a nice cab high canopy would make it a really nice looking truck.  With a good canopy you could also put the dog back there.  Cloth is much cooler, but does not have the bling feature leather does.  Personally I love bucket seats for the hip hugging.  They just make me feel more comfortable going down the road.

Steve Peeters

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 07:10:12 PM »
An F150 is way to small for that 10K/30 ft.  trailer. You cannot go by published the capacity specs found in brochures and ads as they are usually based on the minimal configuration for any truck (options etc). The load carrying capacity varies greatly due to options chosen/supplied and must be taken into consideration. The best place to find the load capacity is on the yellow sticker found on the door jamb as it shows the capacity of that SPECIFIC truck as it left the factory. That number must then be 'worked' mathematically to find the true capacity by subtracting anything not included as coming from the factory.
Thanks for the advice, I am paying close attention. ;)

Steve Peeters

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 07:12:55 PM »
X2 We made the mistake of going with a marginal tow vehicle, it was not a pleasant experience. Mileage was terrible, it struggled on the hills and windy days were terrible. We now have a 2500 with the diesel which may not be suitable for your needs but we love it.
A four door with a fold down rear seat back should give your furry friend room to stretch out comfortably. I don't like leather, hot in the summer and cold in the winter, but that's just me.
Which brands are best? Don't go there, we are all passionate about our favorites. ;D Ford, GM, and Chrysler build fine trucks, drive them all and pick the one your wife likes.  Good points you make.  Wife and I talked and we've set a budget on the truck of $41,000; so we will be looking at used trucks. 
Perhaps 2011's w/0 the DEF stuff. :)

ModEdit: Fixed misplaced Close Quote tag - LS
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 12:25:25 PM by Lou Schneider »

Steve Peeters

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 07:14:26 PM »
Why not consider moving up to a Ford F250 ? -- you really do need more than the F150 for the 8,000# plus your trailer (plus hitch) will weigh once you're on the road.  F250 does not have an eco boost option, but comes as a gas or diesel engine V 8.

I researched the same class Northwood RVs you're considering (and will get one about the same size next year) and initially looked at the F150 (properly equipped) to tow it -- no matter how many times I crunched the weight numbers, the results told me it's just not big/powerful enough to safely and enjoyably haul around that much weight.  Especially in wind and even moderate mountain terrain.

So, the result was I went with the F250 and just got the new truck yesterday and posted about it (under Meet the Beast) if you're interested in the specifications I went with to tow a trailer in the same weight category and build you're looking at.  Nice choice of trailer BTW.  Linda 

Why not, seems to be the consensus here and with the tech at the RV dealer where we bought our new Arctic Fox. :)

ModEdit: Fixed misplaced Close Quote tag - LS
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 12:25:41 PM by Lou Schneider »

Steve Peeters

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 07:25:18 PM »
Very good advise above.  Allow me to be more specific.

Every vehicle built since 2009 has a Yellow banner label on the driver door latch post which specifies the maximum load that vehicle was designed to carry based on its weight as it left the factory.  This is just what it says: Maximum weight of all passengers and cargo shall not exceed XXXX lbs.

A TT with a GVWR of 10,000# will have a hitch weight of 1,000# - 1,100#, which is carried by the truck.  To this, add 80# for a WD hitch, the weight of all passengers, including the dog, and all other cargo carried in the truck - tools, dog food, fire wood, etc.  This total MUST BE less than this yellow label on your tow vehicle.  I will guess your total will be around 2,000#

You also stated a 30 ft TT.  I seriously doubt any ½ ton pickup with a Super Cab or Crew Cab with the options you want will handle either the weight or the 30 ft "sail".  It is simply too light for the job.  You are clearly in ¾ ton territory.

As for brand, Roy stated it correctly.  Drive all three and get the one your wife likes.  All are solid, reliable trucks.

Gas or diesel?  It depends.  If most of your towing is in the mountains, you will probably appreciate the low end torque of the diesel.  Otherwise, gas will do fine.  It is also $8K cheaper!  If your local driving is relatively short trips, it is another vote for gas.  Diesels are great for the long haul, but not for the short trips.

Back Seat:  I have a Super Cab, which has a back seat and back doors that only open when the front door is open.  It is great for what I wanted.  It can carry passengers, but it does not have great leg room.  The seats DO fold up.  I'm sure the dog would be quite happy there.  The crew cab is similar with more leg room and conventional doors.

Trim Level is all about what the front seat occupants want.  When the seats fold up, they will protect the seat back from the dog.  Unless the dog likes to scratch things, I suspect the leather would be easier to clean!  In fact, with some of the safety options you want, you may need a higher trim that comes with leather.

Thanks for asking.  Please ask for any other information you may need.

 Things have changed a bit as my DW and I talked and the budget changed to $41,000 after tax and license.  We spent more than we planned for the trailer and thought an F150 would work.  Linda mentioned a gas truck the F250 turbo, perhaps that will work.  Why wouldn't a diesel be good for short trips?  When the seats fold up I think that means they go into a position where the upholstery won't be exposed and there would be a flat surface for the dog to sit on that would be about the same height as the seats were, is that correct?  We test drove a Ford yesterday but folding up the seats was not demoed.  My dog just jumped in and got on top of a 40/60 bench seat.  Thanks in advance for your help. 8) 8)

ModEdit: Fixed misplaced Close Quote tag - LS
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 12:27:09 PM by Lou Schneider »

Steve Peeters

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Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 07:28:04 PM »
Cost wise a 2500 Ram or ford would be my choice.  Rams seem to have a far better interior, and pricing is much better. While fuel economy may not be as good towing, non towing, especially around town the gasser would be a better choice.  As for configuration?  Crew cab long bed would be my first choice.  Adding a nice cab high canopy would make it a really nice looking truck.  With a good canopy you could also put the dog back there.  Cloth is much cooler, but does not have the bling feature leather does.  Personally I love bucket seats for the hip hugging.  They just make me feel more comfortable going down the road.

 What is a cab high canopy?  Why is a gasser a better choice for around town? Looking at used now as the budget is $41,000.  Thanks for your help. ;D

ModEdit: Fixed misplaced Close Quote tag -LS
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 12:29:11 PM by Lou Schneider »

donn

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Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 08:53:00 PM »

41K will buy you a nicely loaded brand new Ram 2500 gasser.
Modern diesels with all the emission crud  just dont like a diet of in town driving.
In town a modern diesel will get around 10.  A gasser will get at least that good and probably better.
There are two Ram dealers that will deal on new trucks.  Dennis Dillon out of Boise,ID is giving really good deals now days.
Check out Leer canopies as one idea.

Steve Peeters

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 10:27:12 PM »
41K will buy you a nicely loaded brand new Ram 2500 gasser.
Modern diesels with all the emission crud  just dont like a diet of in town driving.
In town a modern diesel will get around 10.  A gasser will get at least that good and probably better.
There are two Ram dealers that will deal on new trucks.  Dennis Dillon out of Boise,ID is giving really good deals now days.
Check out Leer canopies as one idea.
Thanks for the info.  I am in southern California.  Checking local dealer inventory I'm seeing a minimum price on a new Ram 2500 gasser, without extras at $52,000.  Found I nice looking used one on Auto Trader in Indiana (OMG) with great stuff included for $39,500.  It's a 2016 Laramie Longhorn with 12,772 miles.  It's just too far to go and see!  :) :) :)

Dreamsend

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Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2017, 04:34:04 AM »
Linda mentioned a gas truck the F250 turbo,

I think this is a mis-read, so I need to clarify, as the engine issue can make a significant difference.  The F250 gas engines (I think all years?) are naturally-aspirated, not turbo-charged.  The F250 diesel (and the ecoboost in the F150) is a turbo.  In my new F250 gasser owner's manual, Ford states one must reduce the "gross combined weight [rating] by 2%" for every 1,000 feet elevation change above a baseline of 1,000 feet. Thinner air (less O2 partial pressure) affects the combustion.  In the "towing" section of the manual, they don't specify that this means only for the gas naturally-aspirated engine, and the manual of course addresses ALL F250 models, including the diesel.  So I don't know what's up with that, but it has been my understanding that you don't lose power/capacity with turbo-charged engines at higher elevations.  Others could chime in here to better clarify.

Interestingly, in previous versions of the F series trucks owner's manual that I accessed many months ago via Ford Owner's internet site, they stated a loss of 3-4% towing capacity with each 1,000 ft. change up in elevation. When I run the numbers, one using GCVWR at 2% and the other using just tow capacity at 4% reduction, the weight reduction recommendations are comparable.

I plan on spending most of my time (I plan on living full-time in the trailer) at elevations of ~4-7,500 generally, with occasional forays up to ~10,000 feet above sea level. 

This is how I interpret that info as an estimate of possible expectations.  If Ford is correct, that could potentially mean a loss of up to ~20% of the CGVWR ability at the highest elevations I expect generally -- with the naturally-aspirated gas engine.  IF, my F250 as equipped, is rated at 22,000# combined, then that drops to 17,600# combined when at the highest elevations. With a truck weight of about 7,300 lbs, which remains constant, that leaves a towing capability of about 10,300# in round numbers, which is significantly lower than the rated 15,000# towing capability.  The truck would be at its tow limit since the trailer and hitch will be right around 10,000#.

That's another reason I went for what might seem like too much excess capacity in the truck.  It's not really excess for the environments I'll be in.  I don't have any experience with how this will play out in "real" life (i.e. not having towed or driven a truck at higher elevations), so I"ll find out I guess. 

I think it's been mentioned before on this forum that the other BIG truck manufacturers don't provide this warning, so I guess there is debate about it. I did find some internet articles discussing this issue with regard to other manufacturers who if I remember rightly, sorta weasel-worded their way around it. I think elevation consideration is one of the major reasons for choosing diesel turbo-charged engines (or any other turbo-charged) and with good reason.  Again, others could post more direct info about this as I'm certainly no kinda expert on engine operation and performance.

If choosing a naturally-aspirated engine, however, don't forget to consider the impacts of elevation on the truck's performance and abilities if you plan on towing time above the baseline of 1,000 feet.  Linda

 
Linda with kitties Sarah & Samson
2017 Ford F250 Lariat aka Gypsy Rose

kdbgoat

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Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2017, 06:42:48 AM »
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

Steve Peeters

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Re: Truck to tow a 30' Arctic Fox TT
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2017, 08:34:21 AM »
I think this is a mis-read, so I need to clarify, as the engine issue can make a significant difference.  The F250 gas engines (I think all years?) are naturally-aspirated, not turbo-charged.  The F250 diesel (and the ecoboost in the F150) is a turbo.  In my new F250 gasser owner's manual, Ford states one must reduce the "gross combined weight [rating] by 2%" for every 1,000 feet elevation change above a baseline of 1,000 feet. Thinner air (less O2 partial pressure) affects the combustion.  In the "towing" section of the manual, they don't specify that this means only for the gas naturally-aspirated engine, and the manual of course addresses ALL F250 models, including the diesel.  So I don't know what's up with that, but it has been my understanding that you don't lose power/capacity with turbo-charged engines at higher elevations.  Others could chime in here to better clarify.

Interestingly, in previous versions of the F series trucks owner's manual that I accessed many months ago via Ford Owner's internet site, they stated a loss of 3-4% towing capacity with each 1,000 ft. change up in elevation. When I run the numbers, one using GCVWR at 2% and the other using just tow capacity at 4% reduction, the weight reduction recommendations are comparable.

I plan on spending most of my time (I plan on living full-time in the trailer) at elevations of ~4-7,500 generally, with occasional forays up to ~10,000 feet above sea level. 

This is how I interpret that info as an estimate of possible expectations.  If Ford is correct, that could potentially mean a loss of up to ~20% of the CGVWR ability at the highest elevations I expect generally -- with the naturally-aspirated gas engine.  IF, my F250 as equipped, is rated at 22,000# combined, then that drops to 17,600# combined when at the highest elevations. With a truck weight of about 7,300 lbs, which remains constant, that leaves a towing capability of about 10,300# in round numbers, which is significantly lower than the rated 15,000# towing capability.  The truck would be at its tow limit since the trailer and hitch will be right around 10,000#.

That's another reason I went for what might seem like too much excess capacity in the truck.  It's not really excess for the environments I'll be in.  I don't have any experience with how this will play out in "real" life (i.e. not having towed or driven a truck at higher elevations), so I"ll find out I guess. 

I think it's been mentioned before on this forum that the other BIG truck manufacturers don't provide this warning, so I guess there is debate about it. I did find some internet articles discussing this issue with regard to other manufacturers who if I remember rightly, sorta weasel-worded their way around it. I think elevation consideration is one of the major reasons for choosing diesel turbo-charged engines (or any other turbo-charged) and with good reason.  Again, others could post more direct info about this as I'm certainly no kinda expert on engine operation and performance.

If choosing a naturally-aspirated engine, however, don't forget to consider the impacts of elevation on the truck's performance and abilities if you plan on towing time above the baseline of 1,000 feet.  Linda

 
  Thanks, Linda, when buying a truck there is so much to learn!

 

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