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Author Topic: External microphones for video recording  (Read 873 times)

wb6kwt

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2017, 08:22:27 am »
Tom, I recorded right to the camera but my camera has 2 XLR inputs so I could set it to record to both channels, camera mic and mixer, or combine the inputs and record just one of the inputs. I understand your camera probably doesn't support two channels. The op who stated the mixer might not be the best choice is right, I've had that happen to me, you just need to work with the sound guy to make sure he is giving you the whole mix. It shounds like you have a workable plan and I'm sure you will be happy with the results.

Bob
2004 Brave 30'
Retired Navy Chief
Minesweepers, Destroyers
Retired AV guy City of Tracy, California

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2017, 09:38:18 am »
Thanks Bob.
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Larry N.

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2017, 11:02:05 am »
Tom,

I see in another thread that you got video from the concert. When you get a chance, let me know how the audio quality was with that BOYA mic.

Thanks,
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2017, 12:25:21 pm »
Larry, I watched several numbers from the show when we got home yesterday. I have no way of properly measuring 'sound quality', but overall I was happy with the results. I had the mic' set to zero on the +/- gain, and I detected no distortion on playback via my PC with the volume cranked all the way up.

The band came out reasonably clear when playing & singing, instrumental, or a cappella singing. Solo instruments and voice also came out reasonably clear.

I have no doubt that, if I'd sprung for a Rode shotgun mic' (3X the price), the results would have been noticeably better. I might return the BOYA and buy a Rode.
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Larry N.

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2017, 12:38:51 pm »
OK, thanks Tom. I'm looking for a decent but inexpensive mic for my D7100, but close enough to a shotgun that it'll also do fine with my Canon G20. Sounds as if it's worth a shot. I appreciate the feedback.

I've looked at the Rodes and the Sennheisers and some others, but they're more than I want to spend for this, at the moment.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 12:41:19 pm by Larry N. »
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2017, 12:53:13 pm »
Larry, it sounds like you're where I was on the decision. One caveat - despite their 'shotgun' hoopla, the BOYA is not a true shotgun mic'. Although audience noise wasn't a big issue yesterday, I could occasionally hear the videographer rustling something. She really came out loud when she yelled for an encore number  ;D
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Larry N.

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2017, 02:30:08 pm »
Yes, thanks for the alert Tom -- I spotted that in their pattern, super cardiod rather than true shotgun is actually what I'm after and is one of the things that makes me consider this one.

Thanks,
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

8Muddypaws

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2017, 06:50:43 pm »
Can't wait to hear the final results Tom.

I'm recording the music programs Memorial weekend.  Some will be via the built in mics on my ancient Zoom H4 and some will come off the board. 

I'm the sound man unless I'm on stage playing.  One of the systems is a Bose L1.  I can't wait to get my grubby little hands on that!
Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter and music director
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2017, 10:34:07 am »
Now that I've had a chance to view/listen to all the numbers more closely/critically, I think that a mic' change (to the Rode) is in my future for this use. It looks like I need to revert to plan B and replace the audio tracks with an external source.

FWIW here's a link to the playlist on YouTube.

I haven't yet figured out the source of the 'crackling' sounds occasionally heard.

Going forward, we need more practice with the G7/mic' combination at live shows; The stage spotlights sure tax the camera's 'auto' mode. It also became apparent that the G7 is lacking a headphone jack to monitor what's being recorded from the mic'.
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SeilerBird

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2017, 10:59:18 am »
The problem you are going to always have is that you can't play in the band, run the video camera and do the recording. That is the job of three people. You will be able to do all three jobs but you won't get the professional results you are wanting.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2017, 11:09:42 am »
Understood. I wasn't taking the video on Sunday; I was on stage, while Chris was seated in the elevated section of the audience, with the camera on a tripod and the external mic' in the hot shoe. My comment that "we need more practice with the G7/mic' combination at live shows" referred to shows that we both attend as audience members.
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Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2017, 11:52:57 am »
We apparently have decent audio from a separate digital audio recorder that was set up on a tripod in an aisle by a band member; Some MP3 files are on their way for me to see if I can use them to replace the audio track on the videos.

Meanwhile, we're trying to get the promised '2-track' audio file from the sound booth.
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Larry N.

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2017, 01:46:56 pm »
Quote
I haven't yet figured out the source of the 'crackling' sounds occasionally heard.

In "Back in the High Life Again" I heard a couple of spots where it seemed the voices were overdriving the mic, very briefly, though my ears aren't nearly as good as they used to be. I don't know if that's the "crackling" you referred to.

I really enjoyed the performances -- great job by all, though the sound seemed a tad "muddy," if it's not just my ears. I wonder, too, if you have an automatic white balance on that camera? Seems a tad reddish.

Thanks for sharing those videos -- they're fun to listen to.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

SeilerBird

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2017, 01:55:36 pm »
I really enjoyed the performances -- great job by all, though the sound seemed a tad "muddy," if it's not just my ears. I wonder, too, if you have an automatic white balance on that camera? Seems a tad reddish.
It is not your ears, it is muddy. The problem is 60 singers and 60 ukes running into one microphone. It really needs to be at least a four channel recording to be able to tame the mud.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
Life list of birds:
https://goo.gl/photos/xuP9zPD2KP2swN1g8
2016 photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/aXQPbnVpgzNvs4Jq8
My portfolio:
https://goo.gl/photos/Cx4SaYhGfYFShSty7

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2017, 02:43:04 pm »
Quote from: Larry N
In "Back in the High Life Again" I heard a couple of spots where it seemed the voices were overdriving the mic...

Aye Larry, but that's not the very pronounced crackling in a couple of spots on a few numbers. I really had to guess where to set the gain/attenuation on the mic' and on the camera, and was worried I might overdrive it, or have insufficient volume. Prior to the show, I tried to check on what had been recorded during the sound check/warm up but, without a headphone jack on the camera, there was really no way to listen to it.

Quote
.. the sound seemed a tad "muddy,"

No disagreement, and it's one reason I need to get my hands on the 2-track recording from the sound booth. I'm a little concerned that there was not good communication between the various sound techs, and hope they kept the file; Only one of the guys on the crew at the show was in our prior meeting to go through the show step-by-step, but it felt like we were having to repeat stuff during the sound check.

All in all, I'm not really unhappy with the show or the recordings, although both could have been better. We're an amateur band, many of whom haven't previously played a stringed instrument, few of whom have sung in public before, and this was an experiment with a new camera and ext mic'. Our 'appointed' videographer, who did a credible job in the past, couldn't make it; Chris, who is neither a photographer nor a videographer and was using the camera & mic' for the first time, agreed to step in at the last minute. I wasn't expecting a professional recording result.

We learn from every event, and had a short review at last evening's practice.
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Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2017, 03:03:08 pm »
Quote
I wonder, too, if you have an automatic white balance on that camera?

I do, and it's set to auto.

Quote
Seems a tad reddish.

Might be able to change that in video editing; Haven't attempted to edit any video yet; I merely cropped the recordings into 1-song clips, and removed some superfluous stuff.
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SeilerBird

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2017, 03:21:11 pm »
"reddish"

That is from the color temperature being set wrong. It is set for outdoors and the lights are incandescent. You should be able to adjust the color balance with any editing software.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
Life list of birds:
https://goo.gl/photos/xuP9zPD2KP2swN1g8
2016 photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/aXQPbnVpgzNvs4Jq8
My portfolio:
https://goo.gl/photos/Cx4SaYhGfYFShSty7

Lou Schneider

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2017, 03:38:15 pm »
I think what I'm hearing is the muddiness from a monaural microphone.  Single source recording blends everything together including the room reverbrations.

Next time you're at a rehearsal, go into the audience and plug one ear so you're only listening through the other - you'll hear what a mono microphone picks up.

Does your camera support stereo audio?  If so, I'd suggest giving a binaural microphone a try.   Something like this:

Sony ECM-DS70P Portable Stereo Condenser Microphone

Can you give me a reference to the crackling you're hearing?  If it's condenser microphone without it's own battery, it's getting DC power from the camera.  Jiggling the connector can cause crackling if there's DC on it, like a dirty volume control.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:45:09 pm by Lou Schneider »

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2017, 03:42:46 pm »
Thanks Lou. I wondered if I should buy a stereo mic (the on-board mic's are stereo), but I ended up focusing on the mic's recording pattern.
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Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2017, 03:47:54 pm »
Quote
Can you give me a reference to the crackling you're hearing?

Hang on, I need to find them.
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Lou Schneider

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2017, 03:50:22 pm »
Another technique is to get a pair of the sharpest shotgun microphones you can find and arrange them in a crossed X pattern.

You'll have to buy or make a Y cord to put one microphone on the left channel and the other on the right.

Aim the one on the right towards the left side of the stage and connect it to the left input of the recorder.  Do the same for the other one, aiming it towards the right side of the stage.

By varying the angle between the microphones you can expand or compress the stereo image.

The problem with using a sharp shotgun mic on the camera is the pickup will change if you pan the camera back and forth.

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2017, 05:04:30 pm »
Quote
Another technique is to get a pair of the sharpest shotgun microphones you can find and arrange them in a crossed X pattern.

Neat trick Lou, but it sounds a bit pricey for my limited personal use.
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Larry N.

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2017, 05:18:19 pm »
Quote
The problem with using a sharp shotgun mic on the camera is the pickup will change if you pan the camera back and forth.

Which is why, to me, the super cardioid, rather than a true shotgun mic, is a good choice for this application.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2017, 05:33:29 pm »
Larry/Lou, does this mean that what I need (or should have bought) is a stereo super cardioid mic'?
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Lou Schneider

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2017, 10:54:45 pm »
That would be my recommendation if you can find one.   The Sony I referenced has a "unidirectional stereo pattern" which is kind of saying it's cardioid to some extent.  I couldn't find any further description of it's pickup pattern.

The main thing is to get something stereo, then see if the imaging helps a listener separate the instrument/vocals from the room reflections.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 10:56:42 pm by Lou Schneider »

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2017, 10:58:08 pm »
Thanks Lou. I saw that "unidirectional" description, but didn't know how much to believe it.
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8Muddypaws

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2017, 11:40:22 pm »
Some of the music editing systems have plugins that can 'spatialize' a mono signal.  They do a fair job too.  I've used them, with filtering, delay, and reverb to come up with a pretty good sounding philharmonic.  You might be able to clear up the mud a little bit but sadly the crackling is fatal.

It's most likely the mic getting over pressured, or the mic overdriving the A to D converters in the camera. (Or both!)  Easy enough to tell by looking at the wave form in an editor.
Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter and music director
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad

Tom

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Re: External microphones for video recording
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2017, 12:09:24 am »
Thanks Russ.


FWIW I just received the first half of the MP3 files from the standalone audio recorder. Only listened to a couple of numbers; They appear to be an improvement, but they're not as clean as I expected. Still crossing my fingers for a 'good' file from the sound board techs.
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