Steve Peeters said:
I like Fords and I want some decent mileage with a dual purpose vehicle so I am thinking F150 again with the 3.5L Turbo Chargers and 3.55 axle ratio and 4WD. Also, what might the tongue weight of the loaded up rig weigh? And will that work too?
Hi Again
Happy to see you're catching on. First thought -- keep plugging away at crunching the numbers until you are very comfortable with what each weight rating means and how they are related. You will be frustrated until it becomes almost intuitive. PLEASE don't rush this process and don't rely on someone else's calculations.
Why do I say this?? Well, because I have just gone through the EXACT same exercise as you and as someone who has never owned a truck or a trailer but decided last Sept. to liquidate and live on the road fulltime. I started out focused on the F150, researched and read everything I could and analyzed its suitability to tow the type trailer I'm 95% sure I'll get. I must have run numbers and checked Ford specs a hundred times. For my situation, this is what I ended up with.
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,104950.0.html
Before you do anything else,
I highly, highly, recommend you not only READ, but spend time understanding the 2017 Ford Towing Guide. It is a great resource, and I think will help you and your wife tremendously. Click on the link below to see a copy of it -
bookmark it or print it so that you can refer to it as you move forward. For the time being, PAGE 18 is your Bible!! Understand the table on page 18, because this shows you how the truck capabilities change with engine, cab style, drive train, etc. You'll need to know every parameter of the truck you want when you talk with a dealer, as they are sometimes (mostly??) clueless about all these important variations.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2017/2017_RV_Trailer_Towing_Guide.pdf
Once again.
Ignore Dry Weights -- they are useless for what you are trying to achieve. Get them out of your head once and for all. Here is what you need to pay attention to based on your most recent example:
Trailer Gross Vehicle Weight Rating = the amount of weight that the axles and tires on the trailer can handle safely. This is set by the manufacturer and cannot be exceeded. It is the combined weight of the physical trailer structure, all fluids, and everything you load into the trailer.
Always assume that for towing purposes and sizing your truck, your trailer is going to be at this maximum weight, which is 7000# for the Nash.
Hitch Weight = the weight of the hitch that connects the vehicles also has to be towed. I think these are 100 to 200#, so not real deal breakers, but to be precise, you have to add this weight to the amount your truck is going to haul.
Truck Vehicle Gross Weight Rating = the maximum amount of weight that the truck's axles and tires are designed to carry. Again, this weight cannot be exceeded. It is the weight of the physical truck, all fluids and fuel, all passengers, and everything else you load into the truck. For a 2017 F150 described below, this is
about 7000#. It is the combination of the REAR axle rating of 3400# and the FRONT axle rating of 3600#.
(hint -- take a sheet of paper and write these numbers on it as we go along-- just reading all the jargon will make your head spin! Better yet, draw a simple truck and trailer, assign weight numbers and visualize how the weight is getting distributed)
Towing Capacity = is the maximum weight the truck is designed to tow, which includes pulling, stopping, controlling in wind, etc. For a 2017 F150, this number is 11,500#
with the following specs:
3.5 eco boost GTGI V6, 4x4, any trans. short bed, crew cab, and a
3.55 axle ratio, with the MAXIMUM TOW PKG, not just the standard tow pkg.
If you change any portion of these specs, your weight and towing capacities change, and you see all of this by using the Table on Page 18 of the 2017 Ford Towing Guide.
Combined Gross Vehicle Weight Rating = the maximum amount that the total loaded weight of your truck, hitch, and loaded weight of the trailer can be. For an 2017 F150 as described above, this is 16,900#.
The maximum your truck can weigh is 7,000# and the maximum your trailer can weight is 7,000# and throw in the hitch at say 200#
That is 14,200#, which is below the 16,900 combined gross vehicle weight rating, so this is doable. It is recommended that for safety and for comfort that the combined weight (actual loaded weights as traveling) of your truck and trailer don't go too much over 80%-85% of the combined weight rating. Your CGVWR = 16,900#.
80% of that is 13,520, 85% is 14,365#. so again, you are right in the ballpark of being okay. Only you can determine if your set-up has the safety and comfort margin you can live with.
Payload or Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) = the weight that can be loaded into the trailer or into the truck.
For the trailer, this is the GVWR (7,000#) minus the dry weight 5,230# or about 1,770#. That means that all water, tools, clothing, fuel, gadgets, etc. you load into the trailer cannot exceed that amount. It can always be less, which just gives you more safety margin.
For the truck,, the GVWR is 7,000#. The 2017 F150 as described above weighs roughly 5,000#. That leaves you with 2,000# you can load on the truck. That load includes driver, all passengers, coolers, clothes, stuff, tools,
AND THE TONGUE WEIGHT. The combination of all this cannot exceed ~2,000#, because the axles and the tires aren't designed to carry more than that.
If you are looking at a truck on a dealer lot, you can know EXACTLY what the FRONT and REAR axle weight ratings are and what the payload is by looking at the Federal tire and load sticker on the driver's side door pillar. This number will take into account anything done by the manufacturer. (see caveat below if the dealer or you are going to add weighty aftermarket equipment).
Tongue Weight -- the amount of weight from the trailer and hitch that gets
transferred to the truck and therefore becomes part of the truck's
payload. For safe handling, this number should be at least 10%, and depending on how you distribute the load inside the trailer, could go higher, say to 12 or 15%. Putting load at the front near the hitch helps to stabilize the trailer if something makes it want to start swaying. Higher loads in the rear of the trailer will exacerbate swaying once it begins. The only way you know your EXACT tongue weight is to weigh your actual truck and loaded trailer and calculate the tongue weight, but since isn't possible yet, it's why people say to use your trailer's maximum allowable weight, i.e., the trailer GVWR or in your case, 7000# and assume that 10-12% of the 7000# will become part of your truck's payload. It's minor, but you can see that 10% of the weight of the hitch at 100 to 200# also gets transferred to the truck and is part of the truck's payload also.
So, you have ~2,000# payload with that 2017 F150. Your tongue weight is 10-12% of 7200# (max) or 720# to 840#. That leaves you to safely load between about 1160# and 1280# additional in the truck. Only YOU can know how much of this remaining payload will be needed for you and your wife's weight, the dog, tools, food and whatever else you plan to put in the truck, but it certainly seems like you would have enough capacity with this truck.
Now the
caveat that should not be overlooked, just in case. That "book" payload, or weight capacity of your truck is for the one I specked above with the exception of the MAX TOW PKG. weight. The additional weight of that will likely add a couple hundred pounds to your payload calculation. Make a dealer find out for your what this weight is if you are concerned. And, you would also need to include any other options that add weight to the truck such as a bed liner, off-road skid plates, heavier tires, etc. Ford already takes into account the extra 100# for the 4X4 option when you use their specs, so you don't need to count it twice. To be really precise, estimate the weight of any such factory options (I found that my additions were minor, under 250#) AND any aftermarket equipment you may add. The weight of such items must count towards your actual payload.
So you cannot exceed
The trailer's gross weight rating, (and/or the weight on any pair of axles)
The truck's gross weight rating,
The truck's payload (load capacity)
The truck's towing capacity
The truck's combined vehicles weight rating (truck and trailer)
From the above, a 2017 F150, properly spec-ed, looks like it can handle the intended Nash. And, the eco-boost is a turbo, so less worry in higher elevations, and the torque curve on that engine is TOTALLY AWESOME. I really wanted the ecoboost engine, but just couldn't do it due to how much my intended trailer is likely to weigh. It was close . . but not as good as a 3/4 ton for me.
So, slow down, take a breath or two, and don't rush the process. I understand the frustration, as when I was where you are now, my head just wouldn't let go and I wanted the answers right now! Just keep working with the numbers, you'll get there. You'll end up with an awesome truck that you'll love. Linda
(Glen posted while I was typing and as you can see, he also referenced the Ford Towing Guide for you also)
