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Author Topic: Sour lemonade  (Read 9122 times)

Modeladay

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Sour lemonade
« on: May 23, 2017, 06:54:38 PM »
If you all have been reading in the newcomer's forum the post "New to me camper" you all know how bad my wife and I took a beating on a used camper. I played every card in the book to shame or intimidate the guy into taking it back and it seemed to work but he has disappeared this time for good. But I was playing poker, bluffing and he called so I have decided to proceed with trying to do the repairs myself. BTW  please forgive me BikerFlex&HappyJen for stealing some of your idea for the posting's title  :D

I'm only doing this because of being encouraged by many of you who have traveled down this same road and not necessarily having the expertise to do so. I know that I don't but sometimes I have surprised myself but it's always been with the knowledge that I have gleaned from people just like you so I'll be asking for a lot of help.I hope I can pull this off as this will be the only way it will get done as there just isn't any more money to invest in an RV (or at least that's what my wife tells me) :)

A start off question is I would like to use treated lumber for the repair, most have advised against because it's an inside living area and the treated wood will cause perforation of the aluminum. If I seal the wood  with good paint or water sealant will this suffice?   


The next post I'll have preliminary photos of what I'm dealing with, these will be what I know and what I think is damaged. I have not disassembled much because I just made this decision and it is raining here. That is also another problem as I will be working outside, I'm looking for a big tarp and straps to secure it when I'm not working on it.

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 07:10:10 PM »
Here are the preliminary photos.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 07:46:03 PM by Modeladay »

Gods Country

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2017, 07:15:51 PM »
The treated lumber won't be an issue.  Everyone that has any sense repairs their trailer with treated lumber, or something similar.
It's not treated like it was back in the day (which is why it doesn't last as long anymore ::))

First you need to tear out everything rotten and damaged. EVERYTHING.
Be prepared to discover more damage then you see at first glance.
Don't be afraid to remove the cabinets, and whatever needs removing.
Everything tends to be screwed together, and quickly leads to more being removed then first anticipated.
That's OK.  I found that its easier to just accept it and keep rolling then fighting the desire to not have to remove something that seems difficult.

Then you need to determine what the cause was.  That is paramount.
Have you been on the roof yet?

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 07:55:33 PM »
The treated lumber won't be an issue.  Everyone that has any sense repairs their trailer with treated lumber, or something similar.
It's not treated like it was back in the day (which is why it doesn't last as long anymore ::))

First you need to tear out everything rotten and damaged. EVERYTHING.
Be prepared to discover more damage then you see at first glance.
Don't be afraid to remove the cabinets, and whatever needs removing.
Everything tends to be screwed together, and quickly leads to more being removed then first anticipated.
That's OK.  I found that its easier to just accept it and keep rolling then fighting the desire to not have to remove something that seems difficult.

Then you need to determine what the cause was.  That is paramount.
Have you been on the roof yet?

I have not been on the roof but have looked at it from a ladder and everywhere I can reach felt  solid. I hesitate getting on the roof because I weigh in at 285, if the roof is solid will it support my weight?. There has been seam repairs including around all of the equipment and vents and it does not presently leak.When I'm done with the repairs I'm going to seal all the seams using eternabond tape.Is this a good product?

Gods Country

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 08:26:09 AM »
I was referring to whether or not you have ever looked at the roof at all.  I would imagine the roof would hold you if it's solid, but you will have to feel that out, literally. ;)

I have yet to use eternabond, but from what I have read people seem very happy with it.

The lap sealant on the roof should be inspected closely, but doesn't necessarily mean it was the source of a leak.  It should be re-applied regularly when cracks are showing.  If everything you come across is old and dry I would think that is a good sign that whatever was the source has been repaired.

I would begin pushing hard against the inside and outside walls wherever you suspect damage feeling for weakness along the way.  Start where the damage is and work out and up from there.  Be sure the damage is localized and not a section of wall from the roof down.  Once you are satisfied begin removing the corners, and lots of screws to investigate further.  The flooring and bottom board needs to be inspected thoroughly.

Peggyy

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2017, 10:02:29 AM »
Good luck and know we are rooting you on!  Keep us updated with your progress!
GMC Sierra 2012
2016 Jayco Jay Flight SLX 264BHW Travel Trailer
sweet home Alabama

Triple Slide Jayco

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 10:23:27 AM »
If you all have been reading in the newcomer's forum the post "New to me camper" you all know how bad my wife and I took a beating on a used camper. I played every card in the book to shame or intimidate the guy into taking it back and it seemed to work but he has disappeared this time for good. But I was playing poker, bluffing and he called so I have decided to proceed with trying to do the repairs myself. BTW  please forgive me BikerFlex&HappyJen for stealing some of your idea for the posting's title  :D

I'm only doing this because of being encouraged by many of you who have traveled down this same road and not necessarily having the expertise to do so. I know that I don't but sometimes I have surprised myself but it's always been with the knowledge that I have gleaned from people just like you so I'll be asking for a lot of help.I hope I can pull this off as this will be the only way it will get done as there just isn't any more money to invest in an RV (or at least that's what my wife tells me) :)

A start off question is I would like to use treated lumber for the repair, most have advised against because it's an inside living area and the treated wood will cause perforation of the aluminum. If I seal the wood  with good paint or water sealant will this suffice?   


The next post I'll have preliminary photos of what I'm dealing with, these will be what I know and what I think is damaged. I have not disassembled much because I just made this decision and it is raining here. That is also another problem as I will be working outside, I'm looking for a big tarp and straps to secure it when I'm not working on it.

I just repaired my Jayco I got at auction with wood,aluminum and trim damage.

The slide out and wall next to slide out had this issue.



Take pictures as you go of every step.

First, take the aluminum and trim off, peel back as far as needed. (save everything)- even the screws. The aluminum will be in long lengths, take a metal sawzall blade or a pair of good tin snips and cut the piece upwards to the next piece. I wouldn't take the entire 8 or 10 foot piece out unless you can easily, because you could be taking it out around windows, vents etc, which makes the job harder. By only taking out a small section (you will have overlapping butt joints when the new siding is installed) but you will save money and time and labor.
Measure the rotted wood the best you can for replacement with new wood. I wouldn't put in treated (google it and you decide) It adds possible other issues and more work to paint it now.
Sawzall all rotted wood out.
Try to buy the same thickness of wood they used and get some good construction adhesive and good outdoor screws so you can rebuild the wall frame. Glue and screw everything.
If the floor is rotted, again the sawzall is the best tool to cut it back as far as needed. Replace that wood first and build off of that. If under cabinet in master bed, remove cabinet fix floor and reinstall cabinet later.
Once wall is built and in place, replace inside wall with luan or other thin wall board ,sold at Home depot ,Menards then install new insulation.
At this point you should hopefully be ready for the aluminum install.
I went into General RV and had them order - Direct from the manufacturer the lengths I needed and the color etc. Its was an exact match. The shipping is the killer, which is why you only peel back what you need to replace. If you need ne trim pieces try to order them or look on Ebay etc or online under RV camper parts.
At this point I suggest you have a local siding/ window company install it for you, possibly ask a guy you see around town who has a work truck if he wants to make a few bucks and help you out. He can install it easily. The reason why I suggest he do it, is because there are little things of aluminum he will have to make for you to make this look right, the bottom skirting, underside caps etc. I ran to my buddies a few times for him to make things on the brake for me.
This is a quick version of the project, but it is doable.
I would also have the same guy that does the siding jump on the roof and caulk the hell out of everything with the self leveling caulk they sell at General RV. These guys are great at that stuff. Also buy the non self leveling and have him do your windows and everything around the TT while hes there.
Its your call on the rear issue, IF its a problem on the inside of the TT then you may want to fix it while your hands are in this project, IF it can be left alone and sold at a later date and you pass this knowledge along thats up to you.  At this point the if it ain't broke don't fix it thought comes to mind to save time, stress and money.

 For shelter go to Ebay or harbor freight and get one of these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Best-Choice-Products-10X10-EZ-Pop-Up-Canopy-Tent-W-Carrying-Case-/361573396403?hash=item542f742fb3:g:Mp4AAOSwagdXSOqQ
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:37:13 PM by Triple Slide Jayco »
2016 Jayco TT Triple slide 33RBTS
2016 Chevy Tahoe

ClickHill

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 03:16:08 PM »
First and foremost don't be afraid.  You have merely touch the surface and I can assure you that you will find some more damage as you remove the outer and inner covering, but again, don't let this bother you just be prepared for the find - Don't be afraid, this is totally fixable and shouldn't be too expensive, pressure treated wood will be fine and I see no need to cover it with any sealant or paint.

This is going to take some time and it will be A LOT easier and much more enjoyable if you have an enclosed space to work, especially to protect the trailer from weather once you have opened it.  I can't give you any recommendations on an enclosed space but working on mine is nice because I pull it into my barn where I have power, water and a rubber floor.  I personally wouldn't take on a project like this if I didn't have the barn, because I know it will be open (to weather) longer than I initially expect it to be (others will likely disagree and maybe I'm just spoiled).

If you approach this properly you will have a lot of fun, learn more than most and be very proud of your accomplishment.  We will be asking you for your advice faster than you can imagine.

Have fun!!!

D & D
2015 Winnebago Itasca Merdian
2013 Chevy Equinox toad

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 03:47:51 PM »
First and foremost don't be afraid.  You have merely touch the surface and I can assure you that you will find some more damage as you remove the outer and inner covering, but again, don't let this bother you just be prepared for the find - Don't be afraid, this is totally fixable and shouldn't be too expensive, pressure treated wood will be fine and I see no need to cover it with any sealant or paint.

This is going to take some time and it will be A LOT easier and much more enjoyable if you have an enclosed space to work, especially to protect the trailer from weather once you have opened it.  I can't give you any recommendations on an enclosed space but working on mine is nice because I pull it into my barn where I have power, water and a rubber floor.  I personally wouldn't take on a project like this if I didn't have the barn, because I know it will be open (to weather) longer than I initially expect it to be (others will likely disagree and maybe I'm just spoiled).

If you approach this properly you will have a lot of fun, learn more than most and be very proud of your accomplishment.  We will be asking you for your advice faster than you can imagine.

Have fun!!!

I hope you are right  I don't have a choice but to do this outside but I'm doing it in as small a section as I can and covering it with a large tarp . I'm going to start on the front and I'm hoping the  damaged wood does not go to the top, I don't want to remove the last section of aluminum on the top because it has been sealed really good. I'm going with PT wood as dry as I can find, connector screws and liquid nails. I will try to size what is there and be ripping the boards. Oh I'm still afraid BTW I have lived in GA for 3 years and it never seems like it rains....now it won't stop
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:52:13 PM by Modeladay »

alan6051964

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 08:42:14 PM »
hats off to ya for taking this on !. when I had to replace the studs in the front of my camper, I started in the damaged front, gutted everything but the top cabinets. this exposed the inner studs, I then ripped out all the damaged boards. I did all this without removing much of the outside. if you do have to remove the siding ?, start at the bottom, work your way up. it can be done by removing a center piece ?, but it's harder to get it stapled back on the studs. this is why you start at the bottom, work your way up. then when it comes time to put it all back on, start at the top, staple, insert next lower panel, staple, and so on. the hardest part I had was the floor joist. because I had to run them under a cabinet wall, then the hard part was getting the plywood on the new joist, under the wall, then rest on the next floor joist. if you have to replace any bottom outside wall studs ?, you will have to cut the membrane away, then tape it back up when your done. word of caution !!!, be very careful about all wires hidden in any wall studs or floor joist !!!!!.
1992 22ft Fleetwood wilderness TT

tombillbob

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 08:51:08 PM »
I'm assuming that most of the leaks are at an edge or corner. That has been my experience. It is usually the corner moldings that let water seep in slowly so damage is done before you realize it. It's all repairable. Once you get into it, it will get easier  as you gain experience with it. What ever you do will a whole lot better than what the manufacture attempted.

Hope it is an interesting project for you, keep us posted.

Tom

alan6051964

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 08:55:26 PM »
after looking your damage over ^^^. I would attack this on a front and rear siding removal only. you can replace the corners after pulling off the siding on both front and rear. this way, you wont have the trailer exposed to much weather.
1992 22ft Fleetwood wilderness TT

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 10:41:32 PM »
I'm assuming that most of the leaks are at an edge or corner. That has been my experience. It is usually the corner moldings that let water seep in slowly so damage is done before you realize it. It's all repairable. Once you get into it, it will get easier  as you gain experience with it. What ever you do will a whole lot better than what the manufacture attempted.

Hope it is an interesting project for you, keep us posted.

Tom

Yes it appears that most of the damage is the lower corners, I hope it doesn't extend all the way to the top. I will start deconstruction in the morning, I hope its not worse than what I think. I'm lucky to have all the tools I think I will need, yes interesting but I fear the skill set needed to accomplish the repairs. I guess we will see.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 12:40:40 AM by Lou Schneider »

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 10:45:27 PM »
after looking your damage over ^^^. I would attack this on a front and rear siding removal only. you can replace the corners after pulling off the siding on both front and rear. this way, you wont have the trailer exposed to much weather.

That sir is the plan, after removing the front aluminum I hope I can peel back the side aluminum enough to make room to remove and replace the damaged corners. I bought a heavy duty 16x20 tarp to cover up the opening between working on it.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 12:41:10 AM by Lou Schneider »

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 10:48:01 PM »
hats off to ya for taking this on !. when I had to replace the studs in the front of my camper, I started in the damaged front, gutted everything but the top cabinets. this exposed the inner studs, I then ripped out all the damaged boards. I did all this without removing much of the outside. if you do have to remove the siding ?, start at the bottom, work your way up. it can be done by removing a center piece ?, but it's harder to get it stapled back on the studs. this is why you start at the bottom, work your way up. then when it comes time to put it all back on, start at the top, staple, insert next lower panel, staple, and so on. the hardest part I had was the floor joist. because I had to run them under a cabinet wall, then the hard part was getting the plywood on the new joist, under the wall, then rest on the next floor joist. if you have to replace any bottom outside wall studs ?, you will have to cut the membrane away, then tape it back up when your done. word of caution !!!, be very careful about all wires hidden in any wall studs or floor joist !!!!!.

If I am able to left the side bottom aluminum away from the camper can I get at the staples and take the membrane loose that way without cutting into it?

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2017, 10:52:31 PM »
Good luck and know we are rooting you on!  Keep us updated with your progress!

Thanks but if I disappear you know  I have thrown in towel and lit a match I'm a fair mechanic but I have never claimed to be s carpenter. Carpentry is like being an artist, it is a skill you have and it cannot be taught... at least that's my opinion

kdbgoat

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2017, 05:51:05 AM »
One of the last things that I can claim to be is a carpenter. I do have one special carpentry skill though, I can cut a crooked line on a radial arm saw. ;D Just take your time, think a bit and ask questions. I'm rooting for you also, and I believe you can handle it. If you get flustered on something, just step back, sit down with a good cup of coffee and stare at it for a while. It'll come to you as to how you need to handle it.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2017, 08:46:35 AM »
One of the last things that I can claim to be is a carpenter. I do have one special carpentry skill though, I can cut a crooked line on a radial arm saw. ;D Just take your time, think a bit and ask questions. I'm rooting for you also, and I believe you can handle it. If you get flustered on something, just step back, sit down with a good cup of coffee and stare at it for a while. It'll come to you as to how you need to handle it.

Will do and thanks, the coffee might be a beer though 🙂 I'm up and ready to start, I'll be posting pictures of my progress.

BikerFlex&HappyJen

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  • Our toes belong in the sand...
Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2017, 09:04:30 AM »
Yes, take pictures all along the way. It especially helped us when reassembling everything back together. We reused our outside aluminum pieces so if you do, just be careful when removing them and keep them in order (you could label the inside with a marker). By removing the siding, you will likely have to remove the corner trim pieces. Take several sand which baggies with you and a marker. Label the hardware for each area you are doing to help keep everything organized. And like it's been mentioned....prepare yourself that what you currently know about the damage may possibly get more extensive as you open it up. Don't let it dishearten you! We found once we got it opened up and assessed and all damaged wood out, our determination kicked in! Full force.
Any questions go ahead and post them here. Lots of great folks here with all different experiences who are  ready to help you in any way we can!
We also found YouTube a great source for knowledge. It helped being able to watch and see how it's done.
If you type in 'camper water damage' you can find some videos that may help.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 07:00:40 AM by BikerFlex&HappyJen »
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'99 Dutchmen 5th Wheel
Toyota Tundra 5.7 4WD SR5
Harley Davidson RoadKing

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2017, 12:48:07 PM »
So far, yuk!  What is the outside material called and where can I get it. Looks like a very thin plywood

Helmerb

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2017, 01:02:47 PM »
Probably 1/4" Luan (Loo-wan) plywood.  You can get it at any lumber yard.  Lowes and Home Depot sell full sheets or smaller pieces.
Bill and Cindy
2006 Monaco Monarch

kdbgoat

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2017, 01:13:44 PM »
Looking at that pic, it looks like the studs survived.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

Gods Country

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2017, 02:17:25 PM »
Looking at that pic, it looks like the studs survived.

They certainly do appear to be good.  That would be good news.


Unfortunately you may have to replace it with more luan depending on what needs to get matched up.

Modeladay

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  • Posts: 149
Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2017, 08:37:22 PM »
The wood on the bad corner is gone from top to bottom, I started replacing everything on the bad corner and I got the hardest piece done. The other side is in good shape but I have to reproduce this part. I pulled the center one to use it as a template.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 08:40:05 PM by Modeladay »

Modeladay

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2017, 08:45:57 PM »
They certainly do appear to be good.  That would be good news.


Unfortunately you may have to replace it with more luan depending on what needs to get matched up.

Luan appears to be there just to hold the insulation in place. I'm going to use Styrofoam insulation that I will
 glue in place. Would I really need the luan?

Gods Country

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2017, 09:19:17 PM »
The luan is likely holding the form and adding integrity to the front by tying everything together.  I would replace it with something stronger, but if  the thickness is increased it will push the siding forward enough that the corners and edges won't match...possibly.  Hard to say without seeing it.  You need something.  One thing is certain the trailer mfg's won't spend 10 cents on something if it were not necessary.

alan6051964

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2017, 10:48:46 PM »
If I am able to left the side bottom aluminum away from the camper can I get at the staples and take the membrane loose that way without cutting into it?
if you have to replace a bottom wall stud that sits on top of the membrane ?, you may have to cut it ?, they put the membrane on first, then set the walls and floor joist on top of that. you can try to replace the wall studs without cutting the membrane ?, but you will need to remove the siding from the outside in order to get to it, or the inside if it's damaged ?. either way, it can be done. the biggest problem you will face ?, is if you have any large lumber that has bolts going through it, and it is attached to the frame , and is bad ?, then you will either have to work from the floor inside ( best if your replacing the floor decking ), or, you cut the membrane from under the camper to get to this lumber. this is what I faced on a few spots on the front of my camper. I had some lumber that had bolts through them, and they bolted through the membrane, so, in order to replace them, I had to cut the membrane out, get the damaged lumber out, replace it, new bolts, taped the membrane back up with black gorilla tape, seems to be holding great so far. this all will depend on where, how yours is damaged ?, then you can decide if you have to cut the membrane ?.
1992 22ft Fleetwood wilderness TT

alan6051964

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2017, 10:55:11 PM »
So far, yuk!  What is the outside material called and where can I get it. Looks like a very thin plywood
luan, home depot, or lowes, about 20 something dollars a sheet, roughly about 3/16's thick ?, just ask for 1/4 luan, they will point you to it :-).
1992 22ft Fleetwood wilderness TT

alan6051964

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Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2017, 10:58:21 PM »
just want to add, your doing a great job so far !. I looked at the front you tore apart, well done !. its not as bad as you thought huh ?. it does take a lot of your time..that's for sure !. keep at it, lots of great folks here to lend a few words of advice :-).
1992 22ft Fleetwood wilderness TT

Modeladay

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  • Posts: 149
Re: Sour lemonade
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2017, 12:02:13 AM »
just want to add, your doing a great job so far !. I looked at the front you tore apart, well done !. its not as bad as you thought huh ?. it does take a lot of your time..that's for sure !. keep at it, lots of great folks here to lend a few words of advice :-).

Yes and no

 

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