Wireless Phone/Internet Huh?

We have Cingular wireless, Quest DSL and home phone.  I don't understand this stuff.  I've been reading but it's not making sense.  What I want to do (would like to do it now so I can practice) is get one service that will give me wireless phone and fast secure internet for when we take off full time in a couple of months.  We have a computer (I can make it work pretty good) and I'll be using it.  keeping it.    Making the switch to another wireless service is not a problem right now.  Don't think we want satellite cause of availability? Of course looking for the best with the least cost.  ???

Doug

You can get both cellular voice and data using either a phone with a data kit (cable and software) or voice on a phone and an air card for the computer that will give you nearly unlimited data service.  However, cellular while much better for availability than even a few years ago, isn't available everywhere, including some of the favorite camping places.  Satellite, while a bit more expensive, is available anywhere you can see the southern sky.  There have been numerous discussions here on internet access as well as some information in the library.  Some searching of our message base will turn up lots of messages on this subject.

So If I go with cellular and a kit..does the phone connect to your pc and you can use the unlimited nights and weekend minutes?  And you can send and receive email.  But, availability is less than satellite?  If I go with satellite than do I still need to keep my cell plan and pay for 2 different things?

Well, you are getting two different things.

Cellualr coverage is not 100%  However I do not know how important this is to you.. What I find important is 100% coverage WHERE I NEED IT.  to some extent I can not predict where I will need it and murphy says that when I need it, there won't be any (Sad grin, I'm a dedicated follower of Murphy and that dang law)

Sat coverage is with me all the time, at least with the motor home.

However, You can get a lot of Wi-Fi places, either fee or free, as you travel, Flying-J, Loves, Pilot, TA truck stops allmost all have Wi-Fi (usually FEE type) Panera Bread, Selected Old Country Buffet, Libraries and many eateries, hotels and motels and the like have FREE Wi-Fi.  And there are internet cafes in the strangest places these days

Many parks are starting to offer Wi-Fi, some free, some Fee.  There are a ton of places you can log on now days.

However not everywhere

The one time I really needed communications in my Motor Home, There was no wi-fi around (Save my own) and there was no Cell service, There were no ham repeaters within range of my motor Home's 50 watt transmitter and .... Well, I was about to set up the sat dish when a passing stranger promised to call for help (And did) cause I was one step from making a SKYPE call.


And when it comes to using cellular internet:  I have used it, it does work, However I am less than impressed with the performance.  I find Hughes to be rock solid most of the time (Over 23 hours a day 24 most days) and with T-mobile serivce it's been less then stellar.

WiFi is the Aircard way and Satellite is Hughes?

WiFi is dependent on being in range of an access point, for an Rver usually in a campground.  Aircard is used with cellular, satellite is HughesNet or Starband.

Thank you for being so helpful.  I was reading the Satellite infomation while waiting...Kinda sounds like thats the way I would want to go.  Is it the same as my home pc as far as security or do you need to know anything special about security?

Doug,

If you have decent security software (antivirus) on your system now, you don't need much else. The satellite modem provides a firewall by itself, but many other people install a firewall like Zone Alarm also. There's nothing special you need to know about security when using a satellite connection; no more so than using a telephone line, cellular, or cable connection. 

This has got to be one of the FAQs.  If someone can point to the answers, please do.  I wonder...

WiFi -

o Is WiFi in camp workable *inside* your RV?
o Do people use external antennas to improve their access?
o Do camps have adequate upstream bandwidth to share between all the campers?

Satelite -

o Is the real-world bandwidth hi-speed?
o Do the auto-seeking dishes on the roof work like you'd want?
o Can you use the same dish (esp. auto-seeking) also work for TV?
o What are the makers and dealers in this?

Cellular -

o If Cingular 2.5G (GPRS) and 3G (UMTS) data service suits me at home, how happy will I be with that in how many non-city non-interstate campgrounds?
o Would the Cingular coverage maps online predict data service coverage too?
o What providers have the best options in this, and what is their advantage?

I'm pretty knowledgable about the WiFi and Cellular technologies, but not experienced in camp areas.  I would like to really understand the realities in this and put something together to help others.

WiFi -

o Is WiFi in camp workable *inside* your RV?

Yes, if the campground installed an adequate wireless system.  Sometimes only part of the campground will have usable service.

o Do people use external antennas to improve their access?

Sometimes.  Most people find that a USB connected WiFi adapter is the best as it can be positioned for the best signal strength.  The directional antennas, like the Hawking adapters, are the best.

o Do camps have adequate upstream bandwidth to share between all the campers?

Sometimes, depends on what the users are doing.  If one user is downloading a large file, it will slow down everyone, unless the router has some form of bandwidth control.  Most campgrounds aren't that sophisticated.

Satelite -

o Is the real-world bandwidth hi-speed?

What do you call hi-speed?  I get 1+Mbps down on my HughesNet system.  Upload speeds run about 15-180kbps.

o Do the auto-seeking dishes on the roof work like you'd want?

Absolutely.  Push one button and you can be online in minutes, as long as the antenna can see the satellite.

o Can you use the same dish (esp. auto-seeking) also work for TV?

Yes, with some restrictions.

o What are the makers and dealers in this?

Automatic antennas for HughesNet are available primarily from Motosat.  They have the most experience in automatic satellite antennas.

Cellular -

o If Cingular 2.5G (GPRS) and 3G (UMTS) data service suits me at home, how happy will I be with that in how many non-city non-interstate campgrounds?

You won't get hi-speed cellular service in many of the places RVers like to go.  If you can get the service, it will perform just like it does at home.

o Would the Cingular coverage maps online predict data service coverage too?

Coverage maps are only approximations.  They have maps for data services as well as for voice service.  They don't necessarily correspond.

o What providers have the best options in this, and what is their advantage?

Good question.  Right now, Verizon Wireless and Sprint have the best coverage for data services.

See this article in our library for more information.

Awesome answers Ned, especially the link at the bottom.  I didn't realize the depth in that library.  I will ask fewer questions henceforth.

o Can you use the same dish (esp. auto-seeking) also work for TV?

Yes, with some restrictions.

Click to expand...

Those restrictions... Things like you can't use them at the same time?  Like for HDTV you have to re-aim to change channels (the 3 satelite problem)?  What do you mean?

Is it possible that the auto-seeking dome that might come on my RV could be pointed for Internet service and used?

o Would the Cingular coverage maps online predict data service coverage too?

Coverage maps are only approximations.  They have maps for data services as well as for voice service.  They don't necessarily correspond.

Click to expand...

It looks like AT&T/Cingular says that the UMTS (3G) data service is only in big cities now, but the EDGE/GPRS (2.5G) service coverage is there whenever you have phone service.  I get this by clicking around on http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/. Is it true that phone service (GSM) from them would imply EDGE/GPRS data service in that location?

The restrictions are the 2 satellites can only be up to about 20 degrees apart.  For DirecTV, the majority of the programming is on the satellite at 101W longitude, so that restricts the internet satellites that can be used at the same time.  If you want HDTV, then you definitely don't want to combine the two antennas as you'll need at least 2 and possibly 3 LNBs for TV, all pointed at different satellites.

The dome TV antenna can not be used for internet.  Internet requires a quite different antenna, not only larger but also skewable, meaning it has to be rotated to properly connect with the satellite.  I would recommend using separate antennas for TV and internet as you have much more flexibility as to service choices.

I haven't kept up with the developing cellular data services but be aware that no cellular service is universally available.  There are lots of places that RVers like to go that have no cell service, not even voice, and even though you may have voice, you may not have the higher speed data service, maybe not any data service.  As you can see from the AT&T map, large areas of the west half of the country have no GSM service, thus no data or voice.

Great answers Ned  Now if you can just figure out why my 8 track isn't showing Jon Gary and Johnnie Mathis performing on my TV all would be well.  Only kidding  I envy you and your knowledge. I stay away from all that stuff, reason  being, Not familiar with any of it.  Still having trouble teaching this keyboard how to spell.

Shayne said:

  Still having trouble teaching this keyboard how to spell.

Click to expand...

Forget trying to teach that keyboard how to spell since they seem to have a mind of their own.

I'm finding that out.  I'm beginning to think I have the dumbest keyboard on earth.

cbgenrich said:

o Do the auto-seeking dishes on the roof work like you'd want?
o What are the makers and dealers in this?

Click to expand...

In addition to MotoSat auto seeking dish mounts, C-COM markets the iNetVu auto mount. They are a world wide company based in Canada and in business about as long as MotoSat. Their mount can be the platform for a number of international Internet satellite company's, including Starband and HughesNet. HERE is their website.

Another alternative is Winegard. Winegard has developed an auto mount called DirectStar. That mount can be a platform for both HughesNet and  iDirect Internet satellite service providers.

My auto seeking dish (iNetVu by C-COM as a Starband platform) has been raised probably 25 times since having it installed in February of this year. So far it has been very fast and reliable in that it finds the correct bird in less than a minute and a half and passes cross pol (a critical final test) within the following 8 minutes. So about 9.5 minutes from button push to surfing. Final tests of alignment have been keener than any I ever got with a manual setup during the 5 years or so I raised manually pointed dishes.

You may want to check out the links I have provided for more detail on each. Pricing on all auto seeking dishes that I know about are still borderline ludicrous compared to manually pointed tripod and roof mounts. However, used systems are now becoming available -- and as proven at our Quartzsite Rally in January, can be installed by clever RVers vs. paying the dealer pricing for installation. That assumes the buyer already has an account in place with a service provider and a commissioned modem for that service.

I find that Verizon & Sprint cellular coverage, including good data service, is now available most places I go, east or west. There has been a huge improvement in digital coverage the last few years and both Verizon & Sprint have upgraded all their own cells towers to ultra high speed EVDO and even EVDO Rev A for data. Independent network partners are also offering data services now, so I usually get decent data access on the Extended Network too (requires a $60/month Data Access Plan, though).

Cingular, though improving, continues to be far behind Verizon & Spring in both digital voice and data services and GSM/Edge is a distant second to the mid range CDMA IXRTT service (Verizon & Sprint). GSM UMTS is comparable to CDMA EVDO data, but UMTS is available only in a few major cities at this time.

RV Roamer said:

I find that Verizon & Sprint cellular coverage, including good data service, is now available most places I go, east or west.

Click to expand...

Do you have both, Gary? Terry listed a number of places along their trek Northward that Verizon was not available -- plus I found coverage thin between Las Vegas and Reno earlier this year. Of course, who stays or even wants on line between Las Vegas and Reno.   I spent the night in Tonopah and as there were no buildings or trees in my way -- got several hours of on line time that evening via Sat. Actually, there are not too many tree or buildings "anywhere" between LV and Reno.

I agree about Cingular coverage. Was with them for a number of years but dropped them for VZW. I could not get a phone call a few miles from the freeway in NCal beyond Roseville or in the LA area around Valencia. I also had trouble in AZ, NM, and especially Texas while installing SW outside of Houston. They kept throwing free phones a me -- and each time extending my contract. Finally, it cost me $150 to rid my life of their poor coverage. Am getting far better coverage now with VZW -- and do not recommend Cingular to anyone that travels as does an RVer. I hope it has gotten better for those wanting a new iPhone smart phone. From all I read, VZW and Sprint rule right now.

I am a Cingular user.  That could change, but I'm just trying to figure out what works, where, how well, for how much, and so on.  This conversation is helping alot and I thank you all.

I'm not an RV'er yet, and understanding this issue is important to the decision to become one.

In my experience UTMS is more than adequate, and EDGE/GPRS is adequate.  Of course nothing like my Comcast cable modem, but adequate.

I use an 8525 Windows Mobile PDA and Bluetooth over to the laptop for "dial-up".  I pay $40/month for the unlimited data plan component there, with modest up front costs (maybe $200 more than a normal phone).

I figure when I start out, stick with this and use WiFi if it is available and works better.

It really helps to know that there's a solid solution (sans trees) via satelite if I need to go that way.  The real-world costs on that?

Anyone have experience with VoIP (like Vonage) over the satelite link?

An automatic dish, if purchased new will cost about $5,500 installed.  The only service that is available on the DataStorm F1 that I quoted the price on is the HughesNet service and it costs about $80 per month. 

As far as VOiP over satellite is concerned, it definitely works, but you need to use very specific companies.  Some companies like Vonage use a lot of bandwidth (Around 80Kbps).  In some cases, they can use more bandwidth than you have available on your upload side.  Even if you have enough to support it, you are limited to only using your service for phone.  You cannot multi-task.  Other services only use between 25 and 30 Kbps and this allows you to use your bandwidth for mulitple applications. 

If you will let us know what your application is going to be, we can give you some suggestions.

Jamie Billingsley
Satellite Internet Solutions