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Author Topic: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via  (Read 2773 times)

Sanibelview

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17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« on: May 29, 2017, 02:20:44 PM »
http://bigrigvin.com/wp-content/uploads/RCMN-17V262-9885.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RCLRPT-17V262-3690.PDF
Did a search and didn't find anything posted here, so
Had CW call for recall, and you all know how much we love CW, after doing research and checking other forums the module is very simple to remove yourself. Couple of pins to remove on passenger side kick panel and mine just fell out, unhooked the white electrical connector and haven't noticed any problems except loss of volume and phone controls. I doubt we will be notified of any replacement.

edit by staff - change message icon to topic solved
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 07:50:20 AM by John Canfield »
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John Canfield

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 07:24:04 AM »
Thanks for the info.
--John
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 09:08:02 AM »
http://bigrigvin.com/wp-content/uploads/RCMN-17V262-9885.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RCLRPT-17V262-3690.PDF
Did a search and didn't find anything posted here, so
Had CW call for recall, and you all know how much we love CW, after doing research and checking other forums the module is very simple to remove yourself. Couple of pins to remove on passenger side kick panel and mine just fell out, unhooked the white electrical connector and haven't noticed any problems except loss of volume and phone controls. I doubt we will be notified of any replacement.
Personally, I have a hard time accepting Winnebago's remedy as a long term solution for a number of reasons (more details on the recall itself can be found via the NHTSA website: https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls?nhtsaId=17V262).  :o

Winnebago is adamant that no compensation back to the consumer is necessary because the feature was "standard".   The purchasers of the 5000+ motor homes paid for the integration of the steering wheel controls at the time of purchase: the upgraded steering wheel is a $350 MSRP chassis option from Mercedes Sprinter; the Axxess ASWC-1 module itself runs $50-$100; the optional infortainment center on my Navion 24G was another $1600+ option; miscellaneous cabling/installation; etc.  In New York State, we have had active hands-free legislation in effect for several years -- disabling the steering wheel controls degrades the built-in Bluetooth capabilities.

Unfortunately, it appears that Winnebago has not consulted with Metra/Axxess Integrate (manufacturer of the Axxess ASWC-1 Steering Wheel Control Interface, https://axxessinterfaces.com/) during its investigation of the recall. The unit is improperly installed using a Molex connector (i.e., "white electrical connector") at the end of a 3-5' harness originating from behind of the head unit, running across underneath the glove box, and terminating behind the passenger side kick panel (typically, an ASWC-1 is installed in the immediate vicinity of the head unit). A Molex connector is intended for power connections, NOT data connections to the Mercedes chassis CANbus  -- compare the precision fit of the 12-pin harness that plugs directly into the ASWC-1 vs the Molex connector that connects to the Winnebago-supplied harness. Additionally, Metra recommends that the wires are soldered for the best and most secure connection -- tapping style connectors (or crimped) are not recommended due to a higher chance of a intermittent connection or change in resistance values, causing issues such as Winnebago has encountered.   Metra's independent installers have successfully installed (without any interference issues) countless Axxess ASWC-1 modules on various Mercedes vehicles when they follow the installation instructions. Metra even has some custom plug-and-play interface cables for various Mercedes vehicles, including 2010+ Sprinter chassis.

I plan to consult with a qualified local installer prior to just blindly ripping out parts.
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 06:52:48 PM »
Thanks for your info, very informative.

(I plan to consult with a qualified local installer prior to just blindly ripping out parts.)

I'm positive you were referring to CW, and I'm sure I would take more care in performing the recall than what ever CW flunky they assigned to the project. Since I had several codes that came up over the last trip, I didn't want to take a chance.
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 07:06:06 PM »
Thanks for your info, very informative.

(I plan to consult with a qualified local installer prior to just blindly ripping out parts.)

I'm positive you were referring to CW, and I'm sure I would take more care in performing the recall than what ever CW flunky they assigned to the project. Since I had several codes that came up over the last trip, I didn't want to take a chance.
Actually, I was referring to Winnebago's "solution". When I talked to the Technical Service Manager at Metra/Axxess Integrate after first learning of the recall, they had no prior knowledge of the recall (i.e., Winnebago never contacted or consulted with them). I actually have an appointment with an independent installer (premier high end car audio shop) on Saturday morning to have the module installed properly (i.e., per Metra's instructions).

For the record, I have not experienced any issues to date. The intermittent nature of the issue (i.e., only some customers) as well as replacing the module itself not resolving the problem lends credibility to Metra's assessment of the issues.
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John Canfield

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 07:10:15 PM »
So the Winnebago solution to the issue was removing the offending volume control feature? Good grief, that's disappointing.

Do you have any particular engineering data that demonstrates the insuitability of those particular Molex connectors for high speed data? I've been around Molex connectors for 40+ years, they were used extensively in comm equipment going way back but I have no idea what their engineering limitations are.

About solder vs crimp connection.  Always a fun topic. I've been a proponent of a soldered connection vs crimp but I've had an epiphany. Crimp is preferred where there is movement involved, i.e., a vehicle,  aircraft,  etc.
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 07:24:38 PM »
So the Winnebago solution to the issue was removing the offending volume control feature? Good grief, that's disappointing.

Do you have any particular engineering data that demonstrates the insuitability of those particular Molex connectors for high speed data? I've been around Molex connectors for 40+ years, they were used extensively in comm equipment going way back but I have no idea what their engineering limitations are.

About solder vs crimp connection.  Always a fun topic. I've been a proponent of a soldered connection vs crimp but I've had an epiphany. Crimp is preferred where there is movement involved, i.e., a vehicle,  aircraft,  etc.
I am relying on Metra's experience with respect to the Molex connectors. They state that the Molex connectors are designed for 14-16 gauge wires, and the ASWC-1 uses 20 gauge wiring -- the crimps would tend to be loose on the smaller wires. Also, the pins move within the Molex connector, potentially causing intermittent connections to the CANbus. All of this does not even take into account how Winnebago made the connections behind the head unit. I'll have more info Saturday once they take a look.
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2017, 07:16:45 AM »
Really appreciate your follow up with this issue and looking forward to your results. As a follow up on my View, had service scheduled, and had noted the code problems and informed MB of the recall. They found a faulty wheel speed sensor was the cause of my issues. So it seems that I haven't had any problems with the Axxess steering wheel control unit. Will probably leave it out and see if I miss the phone and volume function. 
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 07:40:55 AM »
Really appreciate your follow up with this issue and looking forward to your results. As a follow up on my View, had service scheduled, and had noted the code problems and informed MB of the recall. They found a faulty wheel speed sensor was the cause of my issues. So it seems that I haven't had any problems with the Axxess steering wheel control unit. Will probably leave it out and see if I miss the phone and volume function.
After buying a $130K MSRP unit new, I expect to get what I pay for, one way or another. Winnebago's answer that I can just use a Bluetooth headset does not hold water. I have steering wheel controls on my car as well, and I am used to using them. Once I officially receive the recall in the mail, I plan to pursue the issue with the appropriate Federal and state agencies.

Metra has been bending over backwards trying to assist once I made them aware of the recall. The Technical Support Manager actually contacted the independent installer on my behalf, and we have had some three-way e-mail exchanges going. I could "see" them banging their heads against the wall when the looked at the pictures of the installation behind the kick panel that I sent. ::) Tomorrow was the earliest appointment that fit my schedule as the installer is about an hour's drive.
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John Canfield

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 07:41:40 AM »
I am relying on Metra's experience with respect to the Molex connectors. They state that the Molex connectors are designed for 14-16 gauge wires, and the ASWC-1 uses 20 gauge wiring -- the crimps would tend to be loose on the smaller wires. ..
LOL. Maybe Metra doesn't realize that Molex makes a variety of connectors from tiny ones to larger ones.
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2017, 08:17:47 AM »
LOL. Maybe Metra doesn't realize that Molex makes a variety of connectors from tiny ones to larger ones.
But Winnebago used the larger ones -- Metra made the comment based upon the picture that I sent. The Winnebago harness is heavier gauge wire, but the same crimps are used for the 20 gauge Metra harness, too.
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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 08:49:57 AM »
Ah so, I have a bunch of those Molex style connectors. While not ideal, crimping a 20 gauge wire into a 14-16 gauge connector can work. When I need to do same, I'll fold over the smaller gauge wire two or three times to provide more bulk for the connector. I would have to examine the particular connector to form an opinion about the connector. Be that as it may, I do not see this as a fatal flaw. (My part time job while going to college was wiring aircraft ground radios on an assembly line - all done by hand. And professionally I was a tech for a few years servicing comm equipment. I'm an Extra Class ham, etc., etc. Been around this stuff forever in other words.)
--John
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2017, 09:15:07 AM »
Ah so, I have a bunch of those Molex style connectors. While not ideal, crimping a 20 gauge wire into a 14-16 gauge connector can work. When I need to do same, I'll fold over the smaller gauge wire two or three times to provide more bulk for the connector. I would have to examine the particular connector to form an opinion about the connector. Be that as it may, I do not see this as a fatal flaw. (My part time job while going to college was wiring aircraft ground radios on an assembly line - all done by hand. And professionally I was a tech for a few years servicing comm equipment. I'm an Extra Class ham, etc., etc. Been around this stuff forever in other words.)
The CANbus is a slightly different beast. Some interesting reading (https://www.mbca.org/star-article/september-october-2012/modern-tech-concerning-can-bus):

Quote
A CAN bus replaces the traditional wiring harness composed of a thick bundle of multicolored wiring wrapped in plastic with just two wires. One is the CAN-high wire, the other is the CAN-low wire. The two wires are twisted or braided along their length to limit the amount of electrical noise that can enter the wiring, and both wires are connected to every device on the network. Two wires are used because, in a CAN bus, signals may be redundantly “pulled up” on one wire or “pulled down” on the other. In electronic engineering, this is known as dominant recessive logic for signal transmission. Because of this setup, CAN bus networks are virtually immune from electrical interference caused by external devices that are not part of the network. Interference can still disrupt a CAN network, but such problems are rare.

Winnebago's extension harness is not twisted or braided, possibly causing the interference.  Additionally, the article discusses improperly installed add-on components, bad connections, etc., all of which support Metra's theories.
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2017, 10:19:50 AM »
TheS1R great info and looking forward to your follow up with the installer.
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John Canfield

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2017, 11:58:41 AM »
...Winnebago's extension harness is not twisted or braided, possibly causing the interference.  Additionally, the article discusses improperly installed add-on components, bad connections, etc., all of which support Metra's theories.
I haven't worked with CAN bus but a quick overview of the protocol shows it's low speed (1 Mbit <= 40 meters), I have no idea how sensitive it is to noise immunity but twisted wiring is always a good practice to minimize noise induction.  As far as Winnie's wiring harness being at fault, I would want a mixed signal scope on the line with a CAN bus data analyzer to actually see what's happening instead of arbitrarily pointing fingers (as some vendors like to do, been down that road before.)
--John
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2017, 04:33:41 PM »
Repairs (aka proper installation per instructions) completed.  Technician's (aka shop owner's) comments as documented in the invoice:

     R&R AWSC MODULE. CONNECT AT METRA'S RECOMMENDED LOCATIONS.
     CUSTOMER MADE AWARE OF FULL INSTALLATION AND ISSUES.
     ASWC NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED.
     MOLEX CONNECTORS ARE TOO LARGE FOR 16-22GA WIRE CONNECTIONS.
     CAN DATA CONNECTIONS MADE AT HAZARD SWITCH LOCATION PER
       MERCEDES / METRA RECOMMENDATION.
     MOLEX AND SW CONTROL CONNECTION MADE BY WINNEBAGO HAVE
       BEEN DISCONNECTED AND ISOLATED.

I have the original Metra harness with the Winnebago-added Molex connector.  One of the wires was so loose that it came out of the Molex crimp as I examined it!  The shop actually had a new Metra harness that they used when reinstalling the ASWC-1 behind the head unit.

It is no mystery as to why Winnebago customers experienced CANbus errors!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 04:58:06 PM by TheS1R »
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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 07:49:26 AM »
Glad you got it fixed. I'll ask my contact at Winnebago to look over at this situation.
--John
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2017, 11:32:05 AM »
Thanks John, it's a shame, you would hope Winnebago would handle this differently. Altho as history has shown it takes several deaths to get major auto makers to change a small dollar part. Also, I would like clarification on where or how the Axxess unit is connected to the CANbus system. If the module to be removed is connecting via a Winnebago harness with questionable Molex connectors, is just removing the Axxess module and not removing the harness from behind the head unit going to still cause the same problems. If the recall is to also remove the harness, that didn't seem clear to what's been discussed or maybe I'm mistaken.
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2017, 11:50:23 AM »
TheS1R, can you go into detail what your installer accomplished. Was the original Axxess unit used or is what you call the ASWC-1 a new unit. Haven't looked but is getting to the back of the head unit pretty involved. Appreciate your feedback.

After rereading this thread, looks like I need a good audio installer, this is above my pay grade and sure don't want to take a chance and sure wouldn't trust CW.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 12:47:57 PM by Sanibelview »
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 06:53:52 AM »
Thanks John, it's a shame, you would hope Winnebago would handle this differently. Altho as history has shown it takes several deaths to get major auto makers to change a small dollar part. Also, I would like clarification on where or how the Axxess unit is connected to the CANbus system. If the module to be removed is connecting via a Winnebago harness with questionable Molex connectors, is just removing the Axxess module and not removing the harness from behind the head unit going to still cause the same problems. If the recall is to also remove the harness, that didn't seem clear to what's been discussed or maybe I'm mistaken.
The Axxess ASWC-1 as installed by Winnebago is located behind the kick panel on the right passenger side of the cab.  Winnebago runs their own harness from behind the head unit, underneath the glove box, and behind the kick panel -- it is terminated by the questionable Molex connector.  Winnebago then installed the other end of the Molex connector to the Metra-provided generic harness -- the Metra harness plugs directly into the ASWC-1.  According to Winnebago's TSB (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RCRIT-17V262-4132.pdf), the ASWC-1 and Metra harness are removed and disposed of -- the Winnebago harness with 12V power and CANbus connections (not twisted pair) are left in place, terminated with the now unused Molex connector.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 09:57:17 AM by TheS1R »
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 06:59:15 AM »
TheS1R, can you go into detail what your installer accomplished. Was the original Axxess unit used or is what you call the ASWC-1 a new unit. Haven't looked but is getting to the back of the head unit pretty involved. Appreciate your feedback.

After rereading this thread, looks like I need a good audio installer, this is above my pay grade and sure don't want to take a chance and sure wouldn't trust CW.
  • Original ASWC-1 reused (aka "the Axxess radio volume control module" in Winnebago terminology). (reference http://www.metraonline.com/part/ASWC-1)
  • New Metra harness used.
  • All connections to Winnebago harness disconnected and isolated behind head unit (i.e., Molex connector behind kick panel no longer "live").
  • ASWC-1 installed using only the Metra harness behind the head unit to the CANbus access point using soldered connections.
Total job took two hours, but the owner estimates that they could now repeat in an hour.  They were meticulous as far as removing/reinstalling the dash panels in order to pull the head unit to properly install the ASWC-1.

I added a picture of what you find behind the head unit.  :o
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 11:11:24 AM by TheS1R »
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John Canfield

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2017, 04:18:08 PM »
Winnebago has been fielding calls and emails about this concern so I'm confident they will follow up. If I hear anything I'll advise.
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2017, 04:44:33 PM »
I have been in contact with Winnebago over the course of the last several weeks. They are adamant that removal per the TSB is the only (and final) solution, and there will be no compensation to owners for removal of features.
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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2017, 04:58:21 PM »
We'll see.
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2017, 05:27:59 PM »
As with my past dealings with Winnebago, just take care of it yourself, as TheS1R has done, to relieve yourself from the headache of taking it to CW, submit the repair to Winnebago and they end up paying about half. Wonder if they will cover to making it right, instead of just discarding their screw up. (IE, their blatant disregard of MB protocols)
TheS1R, did the audio shop have to order the correct Metra harness or is that something most have in stock. Also does the ASWC-1 retain its programming. Always appreciate all involved in getting to a solution.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 05:45:58 PM by Sanibelview »
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2017, 05:33:52 PM »
I have been in contact with Winnebago over the course of the last several weeks. They are adamant that removal per the TSB is the only (and final) solution, and there will be no compensation to owners for removal of features.
Anyone know a good class action attorney
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2017, 06:30:43 PM »
... TheS1R, did the audio shop have to order the correct Metra harness or is that something most have in stock. Also does the ASWC-1 retain its programming. ...
The had them in stock since one comes by default with each ASWC-1 -- the shop has extras since they often use one of Metra's vehicle-specific custom harnesses in lieu of the generic one.  They only charged me for labor, providing the harness at no charge.  The ASWC-1 definitely retains its programming when it is unplugged ("Non-volatile memory retains the steering wheel control settings even if the battery is disconnected or the ASWC-1 is removed from the vehicle.").

BTW, the shop owner was more than fair with the charges.  They spent well more than the two hours that he billed investigating the "can of worms" behind the dash as well as remedying the situation.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:25:48 PM by TheS1R »
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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2017, 08:43:00 AM »
Anyone know a good class action attorney
Don't go there, please review forum rules.
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2017, 08:52:31 AM »
Sorry, delete if you need to.
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Sanibelview

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2017, 03:47:39 PM »
So after a chain of 6 emails back and forth from or@winnebagoind.com they have basically told me to pound sand, the end. Even after pointing out that Axxess and Mercedes has said Winnebagos harness is the primary cause of the recall. Pisses me off, but i guess you have to fix it yourself or live without it. Not the way a customer should be treated and expect repeat business.

And this is their tag line on the end of their screw you email

Thank you for being a customer!

I apologize if this is violating forum rules, I am just stating my experience in dealing with this recall. Winnebago is doing their own damage to their reputation by the way they are handling this recall.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 04:26:11 PM by Sanibelview »
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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2017, 07:32:41 AM »
...I apologize if this is violating forum rules, I am just stating my experience in dealing with this recall. ...
Presenting the facts of your situation is fine.
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lefcoasdave

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2017, 04:40:44 PM »
Thanks for all the replies on this thread! I read them as I waited to get an answer from a VERY helpful guy on the Winnebago Owners Rep phone line. It's over 80 miles from here to the nearest official Winne facility at Thousand Oaks. He said that until the module is disconnected my rig SHOULD be safe to drive, but if I started getting a lot of error codes to treat them as real and react appropriately. He told me that I could just disconnect the control module myself, but I should send in the recall card. He said he also expected that Winnebago would have a technical fix to replace the volume control, but he didn't know when. Thanks again!

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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2017, 05:48:49 PM »
Thanks for all the replies on this thread! I read them as I waited to get an answer from a VERY helpful guy on the Winnebago Owners Rep phone line. It's over 80 miles from here to the nearest official Winne facility at Thousand Oaks. He said that until the module is disconnected my rig SHOULD be safe to drive, but if I started getting a lot of error codes to treat them as real and react appropriately. He told me that I could just disconnect the control module myself, but I should send in the recall card. He said he also expected that Winnebago would have a technical fix to replace the volume control, but he didn't know when. Thanks again!

Dave Landis
Palmdale, CA
2015 N24G
WOW! These latest responses hurt my head. Winnebago has been adamant that the ONLY solution was removal. Why would they remove AND DISPOSE OF the ASWC-1 only to reinstall it (or similar module) later?!?
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Mooneypaul

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2017, 04:44:17 PM »
Dave, have you heard anything back form Winnebago?  Seems they gave you some hope they were going to have a fix.
Paul 2016 View G FL

Outland210

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2017, 10:22:20 AM »
Seems I have had all the issues and emails as everyone else. This is not acceptable.
Winnebago only contacted Riverpark, the distributor for the Axxess module,  It is made by
Metra Electronics in Florida.  The NHTSA didn't do much in the way of
investigating this problem. And Metra Electronics had no idea until a few week ago
this was a problem. Not until users like myself called them.  Yes Molex is
not a connector I would use for a sensitive data line.

TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2017, 10:51:30 AM »
Seems I have had all the issues and emails as everyone else. This is not acceptable.
Winnebago only contacted Riverpark, the distributor for the Axxess module,  It is made by
Metra Electronics in Florida.  The NHTSA didn't do much in the way of
investigating this problem. And Metra Electronics had no idea until a few week ago
this was a problem. Not until users like myself called them.  Yes Molex is
not a connector I would use for a sensitive data line.
Unfortunately, this is a common scenario within the RV industry where we have several levels of vendors integrating products into a vehicle for a single purpose. In this case, Winnebago (https://winnebagoind.com/) buys the "audio system" from RiverPark (https://riverparkinc.com) who integrates the head unit from XiteSolutions (http://www.xsna.ca) with the Axxess (https://axxessinterfaces.com/) ASWC-1 from Metra (http://www.metraonline.com/) into a chassis built by Mercedes (https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/home). Winnebago wants everything to be plug-and-play for "easy" installation on the assembly line, and we wind up with issues like this due to improper installation.

Who's on first?!?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 01:39:26 PM by TheS1R »
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John Canfield

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2017, 09:13:36 AM »
Welcome Dave and Outland to The RV Forum.
--John
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`lilacrosie

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2017, 03:05:44 PM »
Im with you on this 100%.  Just spent time with an employee of winnebago on the phone.  He told me that they would NOT reimburse me for having an independent repair shop remove the module.  Camping World (God forbid) told me I could not bring it in until July 5th and it would take 4 6 weeks.  Yeah, that's going to happen.  Winnebago rep responded to me when I questioned why he would be blindly repeating that Winnebago was doing all it could do..."I am Winnebago."  I said, no, you're an employee.  He responded: "I am Winnebago.  I represent them."  They better get a better representative.  This entire thing stinks to high heaven.  Sorry but it does. I would like to see some of you getting really irate.  Maybe we could get something done.  Just accepting this is not going to do a damn thing.

winona

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2017, 10:33:41 PM »
I feel your pain in dealing with Winnebago "Customer Relations" as the man I spoke with re: my taillight issue was anything but "customer relations." 

I had the repairs done at my local rv dealer who had also dealt with the same man and had the same unnecessary dressing down from him.  Disappointing for such a company. 

This Winnebago employee said the water gets into my taillight while my motorhome is motionless in my driveway by being flipped up off the rear wheel, hitting the mud flap, doing a 180, traveling along the lower body edge, making a 90 degree turn then landing in the taillight.  If you're familiar with Seinfeld, that is one magic loogie.
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TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2017, 06:44:25 AM »
So after having the ASWC-1 properly installed (actually removed and properly reinstalled) by a professional audio shop (one recommended by Metra), I sent the suspect harness with the Molex connector on one end and the ASWC-1 connector on the other end to Metra for their assessment. Here is the response that I received:

"With what you experienced by having your dash apart, and by seeing that harness in my hand, it all makes sense and is exactly what I assumed it would be like. That really hurts me that a company that big is only offering to remove the interface. I would have thought that they would offer a much better solution that that. These definitely are not inexpensive vehicles. I really sympathize for owners of these vehicles. I can only make this suggestion for people that own these vehicles. If the interface is not posing a problem, leave it be. But be ready to unplug the ASWC-1 if the problem does arise. And if so, contact a local Installer to have it installed properly. If they are not aware of a local Installer that they trust, contact us and we will refer one. And for those that want to do that to be proactive, just do it for peace of mind. I can tell you this. I have only heard of one other case of this problem before this recall came to be (and am questionable if that is even related). And I didn’t put two and two together until after all this. So either this is a rare situation that this happens. Or customers have never contacted Axxess for a solution. I hope all this information helps people. Oh, if you ever hear of someone having this problem via the forum. Please see if they can provide a video showing the problem as the harness is being wiggled. I would love to have that."

As you can see, Metra is more than willing to help.
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John Canfield

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2017, 08:55:56 AM »
I feel your pain in dealing with Winnebago "Customer Relations" as the man I spoke with re: my taillight issue was anything but "customer relations."  ...
Be advised this is NOT a free-for-all bashing Winnebago thread, please stay on-topic.

...Winnebago rep responded to me when I questioned why he would be blindly repeating that Winnebago was doing all it could do..."I am Winnebago."  I said, no, you're an employee.  He responded: "I am Winnebago.  I represent them."  They better get a better representative....
Yes he does. These guys are salaried and not hourly occupational employees and very qualified technically - they are good troops and do a good job assisting owners. If your expectation was the rep was going to start whining and bashing his employer then he is in the wrong job.

If this theme keeps up, I'm going to lock the thread.  If you want the thread to remain unlocked, stick with the technical elements of the topic.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
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winona

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2017, 12:37:42 PM »
Sorry.  I'll stick to topic. 
Winnebago Trend
Dorothy and Bailey, my big loveable lab

Mooneypaul

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2017, 07:56:43 PM »
I took my rig in for service and they told me about the recall which I already knew about.  I declined the recall. When I picked up my coach no button to the radio.  They said under law they had to disconnect it.

I was able to get my module back but no cable.  I am taking it to Metra to get it installed correctly.  Be careful!
Paul 2016 View G FL

TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2017, 09:04:10 PM »
Some more interesting info...

When I talked to Winnebago Owner Relations, the rep referenced a Mercedes Sprinter TSB that addresses the issue. I found the actual TSB, namely LI54.18-N-064032, that he mentioned (copy enclosed). It appears from what I read that Winnebago is interpreting the TSB incorrectly to their benefit.
  • Winnebago is instructing their dealers to remove the Axxess ASWC-1 module and the Axxess harness, but they are leaving the Winnebago harness that is actually connected to the CANbus in place, contrary to Mercedes guidance.
  • Mercedes states that there is an "approved" solution available (i.e., using the optional programmable special module (PSM)), but Winnebago has chosen to ignore this, too. The TSB states that "Several aftermarket radio manufactures are working with MBUSA and have PSM solution for this upfit." Details can be found here: https://www.upfitterportal.com/en-us/tech-info/psm-info.
  • Why did it take Winnebago a year to move forward with the recall after the TSB was issued by Mercedes (TSB dated 10 May 2016)? I would have guessed that MBUSA would have contacted Winnebago at the time as Winnebago was specifically called out in the TSB.
The rep continued to tell me that no functionality was lost as I could still control radio volume via the knob on the head unit, and I could answer/hang up the phone via the head unit touchscreen. I asked if this was the case, why did Winnebago (or their vendors) initially bother integrating with the steering wheel controls? "Radio silence" on the call...

Again, it appears that it is the shoddy CANbus connections (i.e., using Molex connectors for data connections) that are causing the issues, not the Axxess module itself!
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Lesman

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2017, 02:16:25 PM »
There is a group forming to specifically discuss issues like this and, hopefully, negotiate with Winnebago from a position of strength in numbers.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/View-Navion_Recalls/info
Cheers,
Les 2016 View 24M Tacoma

TheS1R

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Re: 17V-262 recall 2014-2017 View-Navion-Via
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2017, 03:24:40 PM »
There is a group forming to specifically discuss issues like this and, hopefully, negotiate with Winnebago from a position of strength in numbers.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/View-Navion_Recalls/info
Cheers,
Les 2016 View 24M Tacoma
Thanks for the heads up! I have requested acceptance into the group -- I am waiting for the moderator to add me.
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