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Author Topic: Kiss my grits Microsoft  (Read 1091 times)

John Canfield

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Kiss my grits Microsoft
« on: June 15, 2017, 09:29:08 AM »
The small tower (I built it) in the coach decided to expire a few days ago. Fine, probably the power supply since I didn't see any sign of life on the mobo (no LEDs were lit.) Installed a new power supply and there were some life signs but no boot. I decided to just chuck all of the parts except for the hard drives since I didn't want to start throwing individual parts at repairing it when it could be the mobo itself.

So I bought the latest P270 chipset Asus motherboard with the latest i7 CPU and discovered Micro$oft will not support my Windows 64 bit Pro on the new hardware - so no new updates for W7, they are continuing to force users to W10.

And for extra drama I get a large pop-up box that screams UNSUPPORTED HARDWARE, I just slide it off the screen.

My big issue with W10 is Adobe Creative Suite CS4 doesn't play well with it so I was going keep a couple of boxes running W7. W10 is okay, I have a few PCs running that OS.
--John
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Gord N.

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2017, 11:17:59 AM »

Hi John:
As you may have already concluded, your problem could be with the new 7th generation "Kaby Lake Processor" or even the P270 chipset on the Asus board.Perhaps a return to a Generation 6 I7 Processor and compatible Chipset would work, if you can return the new board and or processor. I just found the info below on a Dell site through Google search.  While nothing DELL applies here, the information on compatibility is pretty generic.
Microsoft is definitely still supporting Win7 Pro X64 OS.  I am using it and and still peppered with all the updates (which I refuse to install without reviewing them...I don't trust Microsoft either!).  Anyway, for what it's worth, see below.
Regards,
Gord

Kaby Lake (Intel 7th Generation Core processors).

Intel's seventh generation Core processors, the Kaby Lake series (I7-7xxx, I5-7xxx CPU description = Kaby Lake), will only have Windows 10 operating system support.

Dell is in alignment with both Intel and Microsoft support policies for Kaby Lake systems, limiting Kaby Lake operating system support to the Windows 10 operating system alone.

There will be no legacy operating system support (Windows 7 or Windows 8.1) for Kaby Lake equipped systems.
Legacy Operating system support using Skylake (Intel 6th Generation Core processors).

For systems with a demonstrated need for legacy Windows, Dell Precision, Latitude and OptiPlex platforms launching in 2017 may be purchased with a Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 downgrade and these systems will be equipped with a Skylake central processing unit (CPU) (I7-6xxx, I5-6xxx CPU description = Skylake).
NOTE: Kaby Lake motherboards also support Skylake CPUs.

Microsoft support policies with updated Windows 7 & 8.1 guidelines.
Supported Windows Versions
Kaby Lake (Intel 7th Generation Core processors)    Windows 10 ONLY
Skylake (Intel 6th Generation Core processors)    Windows 7, 8.1,10

Del Precision, Latitude and OptiPlex models launching in 2017 will have Skylake processor options that allow for Windows 7 and 8.1 support through the end of Intel Skylake support.
NOTE: You can check the processor information of your system in the BIOS (Press the F2 Key at boot) or in either system properties in the control panel or by launching the system information application with the command: MSINFO32 in the run/search box next to the start button.

An alterative to installing Windows 7 on a Kaby Lake system is to Deploy a Windows Virtual Machine in Hyper-V on Windows 10 where you can install Windows 7 on the Virtual Machine. (This will require a Windows 7 product license that is not provided by Dell.)

John Canfield

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2017, 11:39:18 AM »
....An alterative to installing Windows 7 on a Kaby Lake system is to Deploy a Windows Virtual Machine in Hyper-V on Windows 10 where you can install Windows 7 on the Virtual Machine. (This will require a Windows 7 product license that is not provided by Dell.)
Bingo, that's what I will probably do. I don't want to change processors because my previous CPU was an LGA 1151 and this guy is an LGA 1155.

I typically upgrade hardware every five years or so and do quite a bit of research on Tom's Hardware before putting a system together but this time I greatly accelerated the research due to a dead PC. And it bit me in the butt; however I am still PO'd at MS.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
--John
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Gord N.

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2017, 03:53:55 PM »
Yer' Welcome John:
I'd be interested in hearing how you make out with the VM on Windows 10, running your Win7 Pro 64, and does it handle your software okay.

Gord

DWJoyce

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2017, 08:56:51 PM »
That's "Kiss My Grits, Intel".

By the way, it's not Microsoft that's responsible for the hardware compatibility issue, it's Intel. Intel writes all the chipset-level code for systems using their parts and Microsoft provides OS information to Intel for integration purposes. Not saying I agree with this system, I just want to put the blame where it belongs.

Does Microsoft offer a Windows 10 upgrade for your now-useless Windows 7?

8Muddypaws

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2017, 11:05:12 PM »
I've read in several tech forums that you can download the win 10 installer and do a clean install and when it asks for a product key give it the Win7 code.  As long as it's the same 'level'. E.g., Home, or Pro it will work.  I haven't tried it yet.  Traveling too much!

Personally I like win10.  I'm dumping my iPad in favor of a Surface Tablet.  Should be here tomorrow!
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John Canfield

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2017, 08:56:06 AM »
..By the way, it's not Microsoft that's responsible for the hardware compatibility issue, it's Intel. Intel writes all the chipset-level code for systems using their parts and Microsoft provides OS information to Intel for integration purposes. Not saying I agree with this system, I just want to put the blame where it belongs...
Be that as it may, so far Win7 seems to be very happy with my i7 Kaby Lake Processor which leads me to believe that MS is using this as leverage to force user upgrades. The loss is probably some enhanced features built in Kaby Lake but so what.

I've read in several tech forums that you can download the win 10 installer and do a clean install and when it asks for a product key give it the Win7 code.  As long as it's the same 'level'. E.g., Home, or Pro it will work.  I haven't tried it yet.  Traveling too much!
I'll look into this. Thanks.

Quote
Personally I like win10.  I'm dumping my iPad in favor of a Surface Tablet.  Should be here tomorrow!
Like I mentioned earlier I don't have any huge issue with W10 however the user interface isn't the most efficient for non-portable platforms. W8/W10 was Microsoft's desperate attempt to be relevant in the new world of Chromebook, Android, cloud computing, etc.  Historically they have always been behind the technical innovation curve and the corporate strategy is playing catch up.

When I was looking for a new laptop for my wife I played with a Surface tablet some. I like the ability to convert to tablet use or use as a conventional laptop. However it just didn't 'ring my bell' - no one thing I can point to that I didn't like. Hope it meets your expectations.

We tried a high-end HP laptop for her, the first one had hardware issues, took it back to Costco and exchanged for another one. That one failed as well. Back to Costco for a different brand, got her a nice Dell XPS 13. Then I had three, yes three power supplies for it go bad  :P. The 4th one so far has lasted for three months.
--John
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8Muddypaws

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2017, 01:35:42 PM »
After the second PS stopped working I think I'd be suspecting the computer.  Perhaps the battery.

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Gord N.

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2017, 03:47:38 PM »
"That's "Kiss My Grits, Intel".

Well, not really.  Intel just keeps doing what it always has done.  Push the envelope on processor/chipset technology.  As John complained, Microsoft chose to stop supporting Windows 7 on the new "Kaby Lake"  (Generation 7) processors and chipsets.  So, John is techically right that it is Microsoft "at fault" if that is what you think it is.
Yes, Microsoft did provide a Windows 10 upgrade for Windows 7, Win 8,and Win 8.1 back in July 2015 (when Windows 10 was released). It was available FREE to anyone who wanted to upgrade their system to Windows 10.  That program ended in July 2016.  The upgrade is still available on Microsoft's site but it is not free.
Those with the foresight to do so downloaded the upgrade for their operating system and had/has the luxury to go back and forth anytime between the two systems...or in some cases, dual-boot the two systems on the same computer.

And since 49.46% of the World's desktop systems use Windows 7 OS and 5.66% still use Windows XP OS, Microsoft had better keep offering support in some fashion for those users.  By the way, the remaining Windows XP hangers on includes some aspects of the US DOD Command and Control Systems in some capacity, and most of the UK Government Systems use Windows XP as well.  I believe that the UK Gov. has made a deal with Microsoft worth several millions of dollars to continue support of their critical systems.  Don't know if the US Military components hava been able to upgrade yet.

Here is a listing of the Worldwide Market Share for Operating Systems on Desktop Computers.  Source:  NetMarketshare.com
Operating System   Total Market Share
Market Share of Windows 7 Windows 7   49.46%
Market Share of Windows 10 Windows 10   26.78%
Market Share of Windows 8.1 Windows 8.1   6.74%
Market Share of Windows XP Windows XP   5.66%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.12 Mac OS X 10.12   3.59%
Market Share of Linux Linux   1.99%
Market Share of Windows 8 Windows 8   1.59%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.11 Mac OS X 10.11   1.32%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.10 Mac OS X 10.10   0.87%
Market Share of Windows NT Windows NT   0.82%
Market Share of Windows Vista Windows Vista   0.58%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.9 Mac OS X 10.9   0.29%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6   0.10%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.7 Mac OS X 10.7   0.08%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.8 Mac OS X 10.8   0.08%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.5 Mac OS X 10.5   0.01%
Market Share of Windows 2000 Windows 2000   0.01%
Market Share of Windows 98 Windows 98   0.00%
Market Share of Mac OS X 10.4 Mac OS X 10.4   0.00%

John Canfield

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2017, 05:30:07 PM »
After the second PS stopped working I think I'd be suspecting the computer.  Perhaps the battery.
That's exactly what I was thinking but I verified the power bricks had failed, so we took a chance on #4 power supply. I was really tired of restoring her email, bookmarks, etc. So far so good.

Thanks for the stats Gord. Quite interesting.
--John
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Larry N.

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2017, 05:59:35 PM »
What? No Windows ME?  ::) ;D
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Gord N.

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2017, 11:50:37 PM »
What? No Windows ME?  ::) ;D

Ha!  Remember it well, Larry.  Having gone through that era, I keep asking myself "Did that Operating System actually exist?"  Oh well, it served a purpose and gave Microsoft some extra time to actually produce a new and better OS than Windows 98.  Some would also argue that wasn't true either.  8)

I have recently moved and needed to downsize.  A couple of things I ran across and finally threw away were: a copy of Windows 3.1 on 5 1/4 in. disks, a 5 1/4 in. disk drive, a copy of 3.1 on 3 1/2 in.and Win 95 on 'floppies' so called; an original copy of Norton Utilities on 3 1/2 in. and I need not go on and on and.....! :P  Suffice it to say there was much, much more.

Gord


John Canfield

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2017, 07:27:51 AM »
LOL. You should see my PC boneyard. A few old towers, Apple Powerbook, three or four old laptops, Sharp organizer, five or six motherboards, several old CPUs, Ethernet cards, SCSI and IDE cables, and the gem of the group is my Commodore SX64.
--John
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Ernie n Tara

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2017, 08:24:06 AM »
Just cleaning house this week and removing hard drives for security.  Wound up with seven stripped full box systems, two boxes that had not been infected with my data and so got to keep their drives, one heathkit S100 system, two Processor Technology S100 system's, five old laptops, and a Diablo ?1620? printer. And that's just the computer stuff!

Ernie

Still haven't found any of the single board systems ;D
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Larry N.

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2017, 09:28:28 AM »
Quote
You should see my PC boneyard.

Hmmm... Boneyard... That's a good name for it. TRS-80 Model 1 (even the table for it), Unix PC, Amiga 2000, Amiga 4000, Several PCs, starting with Win 95, 3B2, various monitors, not to mention 5 1/4" floppies, 3 1/2" floppies, hard discs, several printers, and more.

That doesn't count the five active ones, ranging from Windows ME to Win 10, nor the tablets.
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Gord N.

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2017, 02:40:36 PM »
LOL. You should see my PC boneyard. A few old towers, Apple Powerbook, three or four old laptops, Sharp organizer, five or six motherboards, several old CPUs, Ethernet cards, SCSI and IDE cables, and the gem of the group is my Commodore SX64.

Think I got you beat John.  First program I ever wrote in BASIC was on a VIC 20.  Made a rudimentary TRAP SHOOTING program...my other expensive hobby.
Gawd, was that sucker ever slow!  Of course running off a tape, why wouldn't it be.  But it worked. Seems like a lot of us are either too darned old or just like to create 'boneyards'.   ;D

Gord

John Canfield

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2017, 04:00:19 PM »
Hmmm... Boneyard... That's a good name for it. TRS-80 Model 1 ..
Yup, I had two versions of the Trash-80.

Gord, I was writing BASIC on the Trash80s - had a bunch of fun but realized I had neither the ambition or skill to be a code monkey. Then I got into Linux, ran the 0.9 kernels on various 286/386 PCs. This was pre-modules and you had to compile your kernel for whatever hardware you had. Compiling the kernel on a 286 would take 8 to 10 hours.

Geek fun.
--John
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Molaker

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2017, 08:05:48 PM »
Think I got you beat John.  First program I ever wrote in BASIC was on a VIC 20.  Made a rudimentary TRAP SHOOTING program...my other expensive hobby.
Gawd, was that sucker ever slow!  Of course running off a tape, why wouldn't it be.  But it worked. Seems like a lot of us are either too darned old or just like to create 'boneyards'.   ;D

Gord
Speaking of "boneyards", I still have a VIC-20.
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Dorian

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2017, 10:22:37 PM »
Have you considered running Linux?  I've always built my own PC's and often at least dual-boot with Windows/Linux.  I have several YouTube videos on how to set up your own custom lightweight distribution if you're interested.  Should run great even on old hardware and boots up using only 160 MB of RAM!  And that's using the latest 16.04 LTS of Ubuntu.

HueyPilotVN

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2017, 02:34:27 AM »
I taught myself to program in IBM Basica on an IBM 5110.  The IBM library that came with the 5110 included a programming manual as well as several other manuals.  That system had a separate housing with two giant floppy disk drives.  We had to break down the patient data base into A thru J and J thru Z.  Very limited storage, I think that the machine had 64K of memory, small monochrome screen and built in keyboard.

Years later when I started a consulting company I bought one of the very first copies of AutoCad version 1.1A.  The single support tech and I had to rewrite some of it to get it to run on a Compaq portable (sewing machine looking machine?.  Up till then it only ran on a Sun Microsystem Mini platform.

I also later had a IBM laptop with two removable hard drives.  One for Dos and one for Unix.

Amazing how the world of computers has changed.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 02:36:11 AM by HueyPilotVN »
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SeilerBird

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2017, 04:06:36 AM »
I taught myself Basic on an Atari 800 in 1980. For the last five years I have been using Chromebooks. I really love Chromebooks. I don't miss Windows at all. ;D I also don't miss virii, malware, defragging, backing up, updating, changing components or any of the other things I used to spend half my live doing. Now I just compute.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 04:10:15 AM by SeilerBird »
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John From Detroit

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2017, 07:56:57 AM »
The Problem with Linux is two fold

ONE: I have yet to successfully intergrate a system using LINUX  I can get it to work "Stand alone" but I've not had luck with a home network save for Internet and printer access.

Second... I have learned how to operate dozens of Windows Programs.. SOME Of which I paid money for and well with Linux.. I have to learn all new stuff.. Now I don't mind learning,,, but Well.

That said.. I like the concept.. I do have a few LINUX distros lying about the RV but alas. I need to find a computer that will run em.. THese new Win-10 boxes are mighty picky what they will run.

Posted using a Chromebook (So as you see I dont't mind learning something new)
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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2017, 08:28:32 AM »
What? No Windows ME?  ::) ;D
Thankfully.  I had that dog for 3 months and it definitely would not hunt.  Nothing but blue screens so I finally returned it to Sears for a full refund never knowing that it was the worst system every put out by MS.  Glad I did not buy it at a computer store as I doubt I would have ever got a 100 percent refund or any refund after 3 months.

Bill
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John Canfield

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2017, 08:37:29 AM »
Have you considered running Linux?  I've always built my own PC's and often at least dual-boot with Windows/Linux.  I have several YouTube videos on how to set up your own custom lightweight distribution if you're interested.  Should run great even on old hardware and boots up using only 160 MB of RAM!  And that's using the latest 16.04 LTS of Ubuntu.
I've been playing with Linux since the 0.9 kernel  :). Back then you had to compile the kernel for various hardware options since this was before modules that would load as needed. A compile would take about 8-12 hours on a 286 box  ::)
--John
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Dorian

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Re: Kiss my grits Microsoft
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2017, 09:11:53 AM »
The Problem with Linux is two fold

ONE: I have yet to successfully intergrate a system using LINUX  I can get it to work "Stand alone" but I've not had luck with a home network save for Internet and printer access.

Second... I have learned how to operate dozens of Windows Programs.. SOME Of which I paid money for and well with Linux.. I have to learn all new stuff.. Now I don't mind learning,,, but Well.

That said.. I like the concept.. I do have a few LINUX distros lying about the RV but alas. I need to find a computer that will run em.. THese new Win-10 boxes are mighty picky what they will run.

Posted using a Chromebook (So as you see I dont't mind learning something new)

If your network server is not always available, you can use a file manager like Nautilus (now called Gnome Files) or PCManFM to connect to a Windows or Linux SMB share.  Just make sure the samba package is installed in order to be able to access network shares.  If you have a permanent server, you can modify your /etc/fstab to automatically mount the share whenever you reboot.  I have a home file server as well and my Linux machines have access to it for file storage and automatic backups.

I've been playing with Linux since the 0.9 kernel  :). Back then you had to compile the kernel for various hardware options since this was before modules that would load as needed. A compile would take about 8-12 hours on a 286 box  ::)

If I remember correctly, my first kernel was 0.99 with Slackware 1.0 in or around 1993-ish when I first started getting into it.  It was great to run something new on my 286 and 386 since before than I mostly played with my 2 old Commodores; a CBM and a PET which I networked together with my own external cards that I made with an etching kit and required running 9 wires from one box to the other LOL  BASIC and Fortran were kings back then.  Now I know too many languages and ended up as master of none, but my focus the last several years has been with Python and some HTML4/5 with AJAX/JQuery/SQL/PHP all thrown in there.  But I'm finding I have less and less time to play with that stuff because I'm too busy with my day job (Network admin/security).

 

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