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Author Topic: Roof Air Again!  (Read 680 times)

Kaputnick

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Roof Air Again!
« on: June 18, 2017, 11:17:32 AM »
    After servicing the basement air it will not keep up on hot days. I have been looking at an additional roof air in the current max air vent which is controlled by a switch next to the door. I have tried to find the switch and wiring for this vent with no luck.
    The questions I have are: will the current wiring support the load of a roof air? (Doubt it based on 12v but hopeful) If not, will it be possible to use the existing wires to pull new wires or are they fastened in the roof?
Thanx!
2006 Itasca Suncruiser 38T
Workhorse Chassis

John Hilley

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2017, 11:48:18 AM »
You might consider a Split Inverter type of Air Conditioner

Pioneer Inverter AC
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DVW6BG0/ref=asc_df_B01DVW6BG05036274/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395009&creativeASIN=B01DVW6BG0&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167149293059&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14142376611030567415&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9020774&hvtargid=pla-307589362235

The compressor unit can be mounted on the back of the motorhome. Cost is comparable to roof air and are a lot more efficient. Two can be run on a single 15 amp circuit. They are also very quiet. These are used extensively in Europe.
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G
1999 Jeep Cherokee Sport
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C
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Rene T

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2017, 11:52:46 AM »
    After servicing the basement air it will not keep up on hot days. I have been looking at an additional roof air in the current max air vent which is controlled by a switch next to the door. I have tried to find the switch and wiring for this vent with no luck.
    The questions I have are: will the current wiring support the load of a roof air? (Doubt it based on 12v but hopeful) If not, will it be possible to use the existing wires to pull new wires or are they fastened in the roof?
Thanx!

Your vent fan will be powered by 12 Volt DC and the Air Conditioner will run off 110 Volt AC
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

afchap

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2017, 12:07:06 PM »
will the current wiring support the load of a roof air? (Doubt it based on 12v but hopeful)
No.
Quote
If not, will it be possible to use the existing wires to pull new wires?
Not likely.

New 120v wiring will have to come from the supply panel.  Some have done it on the surface. It can be finished to look decent.  I believe some have figured out how to punch through the styrofoam to the air ducts to run hidden or partially hidden wiring. It does depend to a large degree on the layout of your rig ... where you are putting the ac unit vs. where power has to come from.
Paul ... (KE5LXU), was fulltimin', now parttimin'...
'03 Winnebago Ultimate Advantage 40e
'05 Honda Odyssey toad
Escapees, FMCA, SMART, WIT
http://www.pjrider.com

IslandGuy

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 09:18:10 PM »
    After servicing the basement air it will not keep up on hot days. I have been looking at an additional roof air in the current max air vent which is controlled by a switch next to the door. I have tried to find the switch and wiring for this vent with no luck.
    The questions I have are: will the current wiring support the load of a roof air? (Doubt it based on 12v but hopeful) If not, will it be possible to use the existing wires to pull new wires or are they fastened in the roof?
Thanx!

What did you have serviced on your basement AC unit?
Jim

2009 WGO Tour 40TD
2012 Honda Fit Sport 5 sp, SMI Stay-In-Play
Saddlebrooke, AZ

"Your beliefs don't make you a better person...your behavior does."

John Canfield

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 07:00:26 AM »
You might consider a Split Inverter type of Air Conditioner
I just had a 27 SEER inverter type split A/C installed in my small radio room/electronics lab. I am astounded how quiet both the inside and outside unit are, it's really quite amazing. However the physical characteristics would make for a difficult install in an RV. Install in a park model - you betcha.

Here's my write-up when I added a roof air to our Horizon. We've had to run the roof air lately beginning about 3 PM and shutting it off about 7 PM.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 07:01:59 AM by John Canfield »
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Our Horizon projects
Our weather

mickey53usa

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 03:50:28 PM »
I am in the group that has this project on the "to do" list. Looking at the Coleman Mach 8 low profile. In my case, I can follow open cavities to the Washer/Dryer plug which is a dedicated 20AMP circuit. Since I do not have a Washer/Dryer and at this point no plans on putting one in, this will work fine. I have about 24 inches from where I plan to install to the "One Place" center that has the channel to run the cabling to the outlet. Probably be next year (2018) before I tackle this one. Read John's write up. Great information -
Michael & Debbie
2009 Winnebago Destination 37G
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited "TOAD"

Mile High

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2017, 08:28:43 PM »
I am in the group that has this project on the "to do" list. Looking at the Coleman Mach 8 low profile. In my case, I can follow open cavities to the Washer/Dryer plug which is a dedicated 20AMP circuit. Since I do not have a Washer/Dryer and at this point no plans on putting one in, this will work fine. I have about 24 inches from where I plan to install to the "One Place" center that has the channel to run the cabling to the outlet. Probably be next year (2018) before I tackle this one. Read John's write up. Great information -
I have 3 Mach 8 ACs and hate them.  Reliable but man are they noisy, especially sitting on a fiberglass roof.   I was much happier with full size AC.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

John Hilley

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2017, 09:32:19 PM »
Here are pictures of an install of a mini split on a fifth wheel trailer

http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/glenn_west1/library/ here are some pictures of the install

They are getting popular on bus conversions
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G
1999 Jeep Cherokee Sport
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C
  Handicap Lift & Hospital Bed

Rene T

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 09:57:14 PM »
Here are pictures of an install of a mini split on a fifth wheel trailer

http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/glenn_west1/library/ here are some pictures of the install

They are getting popular on bus conversions

Unable to open that link. Photo bucket says the requested page does not exist.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

John Hilley

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2017, 08:12:00 AM »
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G
1999 Jeep Cherokee Sport
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C
  Handicap Lift & Hospital Bed

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017, 08:41:05 AM »
I see lots of complaints about the noisiness of the new Mach 8. Hard to believe that RVP/Coleman introduced a new top-end model that is actually worse than its predecessors. Maybe the motivation for the new model was a manufacturing cost reduction rather than improved performance?

Air conditioners in general have continuously improved in efficiency, with reduced noise and power consumption, yet RV roof a/c units seem to stay mired in mediocrity for the past 15+ years. Neither the a/c vendors nor the RV makers are motivated to invest in an improved product except perhaps to reduce their costs.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 08:50:59 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

John Canfield

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 06:23:11 PM »
Excellent point Gary. I never would have believed an AC like my split unit could be so quiet (and such high efficiency) so the technology is there.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Our Horizon projects
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IslandGuy

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2017, 07:38:22 PM »
After having my basement AC pulled out and repaired I would think that anyone that has basement AC should probably have it pulled out and gone through...most have been in place for a minimum of ~7 years and just cleaning it would more than likely result in better performance...if you can do it yourself you will save $$....JMHO (just my humble opinion) :)
Jim

2009 WGO Tour 40TD
2012 Honda Fit Sport 5 sp, SMI Stay-In-Play
Saddlebrooke, AZ

"Your beliefs don't make you a better person...your behavior does."

John Hilley

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 11:20:50 PM »
I'm sure it wouldn't take much to design a split unit with a compressor and condenser to mount on the back of an RV. When I was in Italy a couple weeks ago, I saw thousands of split units on the apartment buildings.
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G
1999 Jeep Cherokee Sport
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C
  Handicap Lift & Hospital Bed

John Canfield

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2017, 07:45:19 AM »
They are so prevalent in Europe (and other countries) in many cases because the buildings are old and retrofitting for ducted HVAC would be expensive and/or impossible. Having said that, if I was building a new house, multiple split units would absolutely on the table. If you had a split unit fail, you would still have others to pick up the slack unlike a single point of failure with one large traditional unit.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Our Horizon projects
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mickey53usa

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2017, 04:55:48 PM »
When we designed & built our new office, we had split systems installed - 22 interior "cassettes" running off of three outdoor units. They are quiet and each office has its own thermostat - no more "its too cold, I am to hot." Looked at putting one in my house last year when we replaced the HVAC - the cost to retrofit from central to split was just more than the budget could stand.
Michael & Debbie
2009 Winnebago Destination 37G
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited "TOAD"

Mile High

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2017, 07:48:49 PM »
I see lots of complaints about the noisiness of the new Mach 8. Hard to believe that RVP/Coleman introduced a new top-end model that is actually worse than its predecessors. Maybe the motivation for the new model was a manufacturing cost reduction rather than improved performance?

Air conditioners in general have continuously improved in efficiency, with reduced noise and power consumption, yet RV roof a/c units seem to stay mired in mediocrity for the past 15+ years. Neither the a/c vendors nor the RV makers are motivated to invest in an improved product except perhaps to reduce their costs.
I agree!
I'm not giving up yet.  As I read this, my front AC is running and it's relatively quiet.  The other two "rumble".  I don't know how else to describe it, but I think the compressor vibrates and the fiberglass roof exacerbates it.  Maybe the chassis is loose up there.  I've already checked to make sure the tubing isn't hitting anything.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

John Canfield

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Re: Roof Air Again!
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2017, 07:35:02 AM »
I just replaced the 13.5 K BTU Coleman Mach roof air I added about five years ago with a Dometic Penguin II (13.5K BTU but a 15K is available) and it's a bit quieter than the CM. There is/was no rumbling with both, just the sound of air movement.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Our Horizon projects
Our weather

 

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