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Author Topic: Inverter comm loss when master off  (Read 393 times)

Mile High

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Inverter comm loss when master off
« on: October 09, 2017, 11:26:02 AM »
I put our MH away in storage, and noticed when all the master switches are off I have a lit screen on the inverter control with a red light and (communication loss) on the display.  I never noticed this before.  Is that normal?  Seems like that may have been what got my batteries last winter.

I have the Magnum 2800 MS2812
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2017, 04:18:01 PM »
By "inverter control", do you mean a remote display panel of some sort? Or the Magnum itself (in/near battery compartment).

Comm Loss typically means just that - one unit is no longer in touch with another. Not surprising if you have all battery power disconnected with the "master switches".
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 12:15:24 AM »
I meant the remote display.  The alarm makes sense, but the fact it stays powered with masters off doesn't.
I just learned the big brother Tour had an inverter shut off in the basement cabinet.  Guess i better see if i can find it if i have one.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 12:19:04 AM by Mile High »
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 09:42:37 AM »
Maybe the remote gets its power from the chassis battery?
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
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John Canfield

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2017, 06:20:45 PM »
I don't remember for sure but I'm thinking the remote panel is powered from the interface cable. I replaced my Xantrex with the Magnum PSW two years ago and I already forgot the details  >:(
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Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2017, 09:25:48 AM »
I have the manuals, guess I better do some studying.  The Chassis and Coach battery switches are both off and the only thing that works is the step, and that interface.  I'll go up this week and see if shutting off the inverter with the power button on the unit itself will shut that off.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

AStravelers

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2017, 06:29:34 PM »
I put our MH away in storage, and noticed when all the master switches are off I have a lit screen on the inverter control with a red light and (communication loss) on the display.  I never noticed this before.  Is that normal?  Seems like that may have been what got my batteries last winter.

I have the Magnum 2800 MS2812
The remote having power shouldn't have killed your batteries. The remote itself should not draw much power. Evidently the remote is wired directly to 12V somewhere, but the master switches disconnect the inverter from the batteries. 

If you charged your house batteries every 4-6 weeks that is good.  If you left them for 4-6 months w/o charging them than is not good. 

If your chassis battery went dead if the engine wasn't started every 2-3 weeks or so to charge the battery, that may be normal. The engine computer may draw some power.
Al & Sharon
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2009 Chevy Colorado 4X4

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Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2017, 02:57:50 PM »
The remote having power shouldn't have killed your batteries. The remote itself should not draw much power. Evidently the remote is wired directly to 12V somewhere, but the master switches disconnect the inverter from the batteries. 

If you charged your house batteries every 4-6 weeks that is good.  If you left them for 4-6 months w/o charging them than is not good. 

If your chassis battery went dead if the engine wasn't started every 2-3 weeks or so to charge the battery, that may be normal. The engine computer may draw some power.

That's exactly what I did last year AStravelers, a costly mistake - By November I didn't want to start anything in the cold so I let it go until Memorial Day.  I'll know better this winter.  My daughter pointed out that they could have already been damaged sitting on the Dealer lot too.  If I had known better I might have asked for them to be replaced.

As far as the comm loss - I guess I just hadn't seen it before with the masters off.  The manual never mentions it, except to say it means I have to reset the panel and the inverter to clear it up.  I'll have to play with it some more this weekend. 

The chassis batteries did fine last year - they are lead acid, the coach is AGM.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2017, 08:46:10 PM »
AGM is lead-acid too, exactly the same chemistry. I suspect you meant AGM for the house vs flooded cell for the chassis battery.
Gary
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

John Canfield

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 06:45:14 AM »
That's exactly what I did last year AStravelers, a costly mistake - By November I didn't want to start anything in the cold so I let it go until Memorial Day.  I'll know better this winter.  ...
You could pull the chassis batteries and store them somewhere heated. If they are discharged they can freeze, not a good thing.
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Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 03:27:31 PM »
AGM is lead-acid too, exactly the same chemistry. I suspect you meant AGM for the house vs flooded cell for the chassis battery.
Yes I suppose technically.  "flooded" is a new term for me, I guess to distinguish it from all the other new varieties out there. 
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 03:31:02 PM »
You could pull the chassis batteries and store them somewhere heated. If they are discharged they can freeze, not a good thing.

That is a lot of work - I tell you.  It took a lot just to replace them.  Not only are they in a not so convenient space between the frame rails under the slide out tray, they weigh almost 150 lbs a piece and there are 6 of them, and a dozen battery cables to sort out.   I like to occasionally use the coach in the winter and the harder it is to do that, the less I will use it.  I would rather just disconnect them if I have to, but even that is not real simple because the cabinet doors don't open wide enough in the garage to allow the slide tray to come out to get to the batteries.  I would have to start it on chassis batteries and pull it out to hook up the coach batteries.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 03:32:49 PM by Mile High »
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

Kevin Means

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 06:49:24 PM »
Brad, do you have the option of leaving the coach plugged in while it's in storage?

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
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SCVJeff

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2017, 03:03:42 AM »
Chassis and Coach cutoff switches don't kill the big inverters as they require far too much power to be looping them around the coach through switches, they are cabled directly to the battery. The house cutoff contactor kills only the coach. You didn't mention what remote and/or additional widgets you have on the Magnum, but the ME-RC and ARC panels are powered via the remote cable from the inverter. Unless you have the remote off module installed on the Magnum buss, the inverter will stay on regardless of having the coach powered or not. I have an optional buss widget that shuts off the inverter when I kill the coach batteries, but the inverter only goes into standby and cannot be powered On. Any of these big inverters can kill the batteries over time. I have a manual master house battery shutdown for emergency shutdown, but this isn't the norm.
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Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2017, 07:47:04 PM »
Brad, do you have the option of leaving the coach plugged in while it's in storage?

Kev

Kev, I don't think I do.  The owner didn't provide outlets in the garages so I assume that was to prevent us from plugging in, but I have thought about the garage door outlet at the ceiling.  The only problem is if I pop the breaker I may shut down the whole row of garage doors and I'll be ejected for sure :) 

Do you get this on your Tour if you kill the two battery switches?



Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2017, 08:11:48 PM »
Chassis and Coach cutoff switches don't kill the big inverters as they require far too much power to be looping them around the coach through switches, they are cabled directly to the battery. The house cutoff contactor kills only the coach. You didn't mention what remote and/or additional widgets you have on the Magnum, but the ME-RC and ARC panels are powered via the remote cable from the inverter. Unless you have the remote off module installed on the Magnum buss, the inverter will stay on regardless of having the coach powered or not. I have an optional buss widget that shuts off the inverter when I kill the coach batteries, but the inverter only goes into standby and cannot be powered On. Any of these big inverters can kill the batteries over time. I have a manual master house battery shutdown for emergency shutdown, but this isn't the norm.
Jeff, I'm looking at the Winnebago drawings and it looks like you are right, the inverter connects direct to the coach batteries, and then the batteries themselves are cabled back to the rear where the cut off solenoids are located.   The battery switches would isolate the batteries from the coach, but not the inverter. 

I don't see a number on my remote but it is pictured above.  The remote lets me shut off the inverter as the green light on the inverter goes off, but as soon as I kick off the master switch to the coach, I get the fault.  Would that be normal?  I have to confess I didn't notice it before.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

Arch Hoagland

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Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2017, 09:46:33 PM »
Problem solved......

https://www.amazon.com/WirthCo-20108-Battery-Doctor-Batteries/dp/B002OWFLC4
Except I don't really have posts.  I could rig up a disconnect I suppose - just a real bear to get to.  I bet I could put it on the inverter itself, which would be easy to get to, as long as it didn't cause harm to the inverter.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 09:48:34 PM by Mile High »
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

John Hilley

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2017, 10:01:22 PM »
You could use a marine battery switch

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/marinco--pro-installer-400a-on-off-battery-switch--15798911?recordNum=28

It could be installed near the inverter
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Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2017, 10:33:49 PM »
You could use a marine battery switch

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/marinco--pro-installer-400a-on-off-battery-switch--15798911?recordNum=28

It could be installed near the inverter
That would probably be easier to install and get to!  Seems odd that I would have to do that though.  Oh well, the new land of inverters that I'm not used to.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

Kevin Means

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2017, 01:00:03 AM »

Kev, I don't think I do.  The owner didn't provide outlets in the garages so I assume that was to prevent us from plugging in, but I have thought about the garage door outlet at the ceiling.  The only problem is if I pop the breaker I may shut down the whole row of garage doors and I'll be ejected for sure :) 

Do you get this on your Tour if you kill the two battery switches?
There's nothing wrong with your system. I have the same inverter and remote, and yes... if I turn the Coach-Battery disconnect switch off, I get a "Lost Comm" error message and a red LED. It doesn't make any difference if the inverter is on or off when the disconnect switch is turned off - I get the same error message. (It goes away when you reconnect power.)

I do not get any inverter error messages when I turn the Chassis-Battery disconnect switch off, nor would I expect to, since the inverter isn't wired to the chassis batteries.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

Mile High

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Re: Inverter comm loss when master off
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2017, 03:27:40 PM »
There's nothing wrong with your system. I have the same inverter and remote, and yes... if I turn the Coach-Battery disconnect switch off, I get a "Lost Comm" error message and a red LED. It doesn't make any difference if the inverter is on or off when the disconnect switch is turned off - I get the same error message. (It goes away when you reconnect power.)

I do not get any inverter error messages when I turn the Chassis-Battery disconnect switch off, nor would I expect to, since the inverter isn't wired to the chassis batteries.

Kev
Ah, good to know Kevin, thanks! That was my original concern on this post.  Mine also returns to normal readings when I turn back on the disconnect. 

Now that I know nothing is broke, I can figure out a way to fix it whether it needs it or not :)  I still may try a disconnect to drop off that inverter, in case we get so covered in snow I can't get to the RV for a few months.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

 

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