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Author Topic: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C  (Read 828 times)

KandT

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A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« on: July 20, 2017, 11:25:27 PM »
A friend of mine weighed his class C today and was 1000 pounds over on the rear axle.  He was 200 pounds over on the whole unit.  The front axle does have some spare room.  His toad was 1800 pounds under his legal tow weight. 

He was full of gas with all members on board and typical water carried.  Any ideas of how to get weight down? 

I am thinking because of the long rear overhang a pound he takes off the back may take well over a pound off the REAR axle because of the seesaw effect.  Add a pound to the far back and it would take weight off the front axle and add it to the back.  I am thinking he should be able to find a spot to cut 200 pounds and then repack pretty easily to move the weight from the rear axle to the front. 

Anyone had this happen?
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SkateBoard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2017, 12:57:59 AM »
The rear axle is nowhere near as bad as overweight on the front axle. 1,000 is A LOT. I'm not sure if you're required to pull through a scale but that is what's called "OOS". Out of service. That's where you sit until you fix it or get towed away. He's not going to fix that unless he gets rid of the toad or puts it on a trailer with a load leveler.

Sun2Retire

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2017, 03:45:47 AM »
He's not going to fix that unless he gets rid of the toad or puts it on a trailer with a load leveler.


This is not correct. If your friend is towing four down or flat towing, the toad is contributing zero weight to the rear axle. Plus, if the whole unit is overweight, putting the toad on a trailer will just make matters worse, whether or not he uses a weight distributing hitch. Bottom line, he's carrying too much stuff and if he wants to get below legal recommended weights some of the stuff has to go. Moving some weight forward will help rear axle loading as you suggest.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 08:01:01 AM by Sun2Retire »
Scott
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jubileee

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2017, 06:49:26 AM »
Seems to me there is some confusion in tossing around the term "legal weight". Is he over the suggested sticker weight of the chassis  manufacturer, the suggested gross weight of the tire manufacturer, or state and federal weight laws. In my state ( a state that ignores tire ratings) he would have to over 20,000 lbs on the rear axle to be over " legal" weight.



Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2017, 07:33:45 AM »
Non-commercial vehicles are not legally required to stay under their GVWR. The only "legal" ramifications for a private vehicle is that being over the GVWR gives the opposition a ready made argument that the vehicle was being operated in an unsafe manner. Whether that is relevant of not would be up to a jury to decide, not a LEO.
Gary
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SkateBoard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2017, 07:42:09 AM »
I would say more then half the states require anyone over 10,000 to pull into weigh. If you have a single axle with one tire on each side I think it's 12,000 you are allowed. Duel tires gives you 20,000. If your overweight they don't care but over axle you're in trouble.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2017, 07:47:46 AM »
Overweight RVs are quite common. The RV Safety & education Foundation, which conducts RV weigh-ins at major RV rallies every year, has stated that about 50% of the vehicles it weighs every year are overweight on at least one tire position.

Fixing the problem is easy, at least in theory: "Lose weight or move weight".   In this case, both are probably needed, since the gross weight is over as well as the rear axle.  Some weight can be moved forward to take advantage of the avail;able front axle capacity, but some of it will have to go.
Gary
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2017, 07:49:46 AM »
Quote
I would say more then half the states require anyone over 10,000 to pull into weigh.

That certainly has not been my experience and we've traveled all 50 states (but only 49 of them in vehicles over 10k lbs).
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

KandT

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2017, 08:28:54 AM »
Overweight RVs are quite common. The RV Safety & education Foundation, which conducts RV weigh-ins at major RV rallies every year, has stated that about 50% of the vehicles it weighs every year are overweight on at least one tire position.

Fixing the problem is easy, at least in theory: "Lose weight or move weight".   In this case, both are probably needed, since the gross weight is over as well as the rear axle.  Some weight can be moved forward to take advantage of the avail;able front axle capacity, but some of it will have to go.

Thanks Gary.  It sounds like losing some of the weight that is in the farthest back compartment will take weight off of the rear axle AND add weight to the front axle - right? 

The C class really encourages rear axle weight with that huge overhang.  I would guess that is for a better turning radius and handling but really adds to rear axle weight.

Getting rid of the 200 pounds total over really shouldn't be hard.  Losing 24 gallons of water, burning off some gas, and leaving a couple tools and he should be underweight.
2005 Winnebago Vectra
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Larry N.

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2017, 08:37:02 AM »
I would say more then half the states require anyone over 10,000 to pull into weigh. If you have a single axle with one tire on each side I think it's 12,000 you are allowed. Duel tires gives you 20,000. If your overweight they don't care but over axle you're in trouble.

Police have watched me go right past weigh stations in every state I've been in (36,400 GVW now, 50,000 in a previous vehicle). Do you have a couple of example states (out of 26 plus) that DO require it?
Larry and Mary Ann N.
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SkateBoard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2017, 08:41:31 AM »
Police have watched me go right past weigh stations in every state I've been in (36,400 GVW now, 50,000 in a previous vehicle). Do you have a couple of example states (out of 26 plus) that DO require it?

Look it up yourself with Google

TonyDtorch

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 10:41:17 AM »
  If you drive an RV through a roadside weigh station you will have a whole bunch of truckers pissed off at you for wasting time and costing them money.

roadside weigh stations are for commercial vehicles only.

blw2

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 11:16:28 AM »
I used to have to tow a mobile laboratory office, made out of a goose neck trailer...basically a "work-truck" version of a small to mid 5th wheel trailer towed with a 1 ton dually dodge.  I forget the weights now, but I believe the trailer alone was North of 10,000#.  It was a heavy made trailer with some heavy equipment inside.  At the time, FL required a upgraded licence...Class D I think it was...for that weight
and in all my research, even to the point of calling DMV, State Troopers, etc... it seemed that technically I should keep log books and pull into weigh stations...

Not wanting to break any laws when it came to MY license.... I complied to the best of my ability.

Got some strange looks pulling through some of those weigh stations.  Mostly, I'd just get waived through like I was an idiot.


To the OP's original point though.... I struggle with the same thing with my 31ft class C.  My bet is that they are ALL like that...any of the 29ft+ class C's I mean.  The way they are built, there really is not much of a realistic fix.
I do wish that when I replaced my tires after a recent blow-out, that I'd been able to replace with 17.5 inch load range F or G tires and wheels.  Even though that wouldn't correct the rating or problem, it would surely remove what I bet is the weakest link.....
Brad (DW + 3 kids)
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Spring Creek

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2017, 11:38:43 AM »
I've observed in Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Minnesota, and South Dakota; no RV's stopping at weigh stations (at least I have seen none when the weigh stations are open) and no RV's getting pulled over by the DOT down the road.

My unscientific conclusion is they are only concerned with commercial vehicles, which is what the very pissed off South Dakota DOT guy told me last year as he screamed "COMMERCIAL ONLY, MOVE OUT!"

Different subject with regards to, are you overweight or not, but my policy now is; let them pull me over.  We travel light and I'm nowhere close to the limit anyway.

Kurt
2018 Winnebago Minnie Winnie 31K - 2011 Equinox

mel s

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2017, 12:02:02 PM »
I would say more then half the states require anyone over 10,000 to pull into weigh. If you have a single axle with one tire on each side I think it's 12,000 you are allowed. Duel tires gives you 20,000. If your overweight they don't care but over axle you're in trouble.
SkateBoard
Can you please name one?
I have traveled in, (or through), 47 of the 50 states with my 24,000 lb. motor home, (towing a 2,900 lb.Saturn ION), and have never seen a state which requires "anyone over 10,000 to pull into weigh".
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 12:04:53 PM by mel s »

Oldgator73

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2017, 01:34:46 PM »
I just did a search about this subject and found that the AAA has weigh station rules broken down by state.
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ducnut

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2017, 03:00:10 PM »
To my knowledge, the only RV requirement is for those transporting them, because the operators fall under FMV requirements regarding HOS. Otherwise, a privately operated rig is not required to weigh, which is why large coaches many times have "Private Coach-Not for Hire" on their sides. Are you a commercial motor vehicle? If not, roll right on by.

The axle weights stated by another poster are grossly incorrect. There are no 50-state blanket weights, because of various state allowances. There are simply too many variables based on axle configuration/spacing/location, tire width, vehicle weight rating, etc.

ArdraF

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2017, 03:28:22 PM »
Quote
My bet is that they are ALL like that...any of the 29ft+ class C's I mean.  The way they are built, there really is not much of a realistic fix.

Brad, I think it depends very much on the manufacturer.  We owned two Lazy Daze Class Cs (22' + 30') and both had the usual long overhang, but we never had a weight issue with either one of them and, if you believe Jerry  ::) he says I always over pack.  Well, maybe.  We've always weighed our motorhomes because we used to see some that were saying the carrying capacity was only 600 pounds which is nothing short of ridiculous.  I don't recall the CCC for the Laze Dazes but it was definitely adequate.  The owner of LD was an aeronautical engineer who was very aware of weights and measures in general.  In fact we were surprised when we were measured at ferries.  The 22' was exactly 22' and the 30' was exactly 30'.  Our current 40' really is about 41' 6" and the previous 34' was more too.  That can be a really important measurement if you're parking at home in an enclosed area!

ArdraF
ArdraF
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Larry N.

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 03:47:13 PM »
Look it up yourself with Google

You made the assertion. I won't waste my time for that.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
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beaverfever

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2017, 04:56:57 PM »
many states and canadian Providences have signs out "commercial vehicles only no rvs ". i have never stopped at a weigh station in my rv's only big rigs

Molaker

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2017, 06:10:51 PM »
Thanks Gary.  It sounds like losing some of the weight that is in the farthest back compartment will take weight off of the rear axle AND add weight to the front axle - right? 

The C class really encourages rear axle weight with that huge overhang.  I would guess that is for a better turning radius and handling but really adds to rear axle weight.

Getting rid of the 200 pounds total over really shouldn't be hard.  Losing 24 gallons of water, burning off some gas, and leaving a couple tools and he should be underweight.
There are class C's and then there are class C's.  If we assume your friend's class C has the rear bedroom, it is most common for the fresh water tank to be under the bed.  This places it over and behind the rear axle.  So, running with minimal water on-board would, in-fact, have a big influence on rear axle weight.  And, yes, unloading the rear behind the axle will shift more weight to the front axle, although, I doubt it would be very noticeable.
Tom & Joyce and Ditto the "don't tell her she's a dog" Westie
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ArdraF

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2017, 06:33:06 PM »
Quote
it is most common for the fresh water tank to be under the bed.  This places it over and behind the rear axle.

Our class Cs had the heavy tanks between the axles which also provided better stability.  It's important to know exactly where your friend's tanks are located which helps him know where to load or unload weight.  This isn't something you do once and forget about.  Every time you add something heavy you need to think about offsetting that additional weight so you stay with a relatively even load.

ArdraF
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 06:35:52 PM by ArdraF »
ArdraF
:D :D

KandT

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class Cunatey
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2017, 10:38:10 PM »
Unfortunately, or forumately, his water tanks is clear in the rear behind the bed and only 32'gallons.
2005 Winnebago Vectra
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2009 Accord Toad
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TonyDtorch

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2017, 11:02:06 PM »
 that's 260 lbs of weight you could remove.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 02:36:58 AM by TonyDtorch »

TonyDtorch

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2017, 11:02:44 PM »
Duel tires gives you 20,000. If your overweight they don't care but over axle you're in trouble.

A Newell Class A motorhome,  has a Duel tire drive axle GAW rating of over 28k ....Google it.

the 20k limit is only for commercial vehicles....it was originally referred to as the "Bridge Law".  but now it's all about road tax revenue.   Can't really be much about safety if that Newell motorhome is allowed to drive over the same bridges as the trucks do.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 02:38:19 AM by TonyDtorch »

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2017, 09:31:07 AM »
The federal (National Highway) single axle weight limit for motorhomes was raised to  23k a few years ago. Note I said motorhomes - different vehicle may have different limits.  States also have their own limits, which apply ion roads under the exclusive control (but not on any road designated as a US route or Interstate).

All this is academic, since most Class C's are built on a van cutaway chassis, typically a Ford E450. That chassis has a 14,050 lb GVWR and the rear axle is even less.
Gary
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mel s

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class Cunatey
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2017, 10:11:16 AM »
Unfortunately, or forumately, his water tanks is clear in the rear behind the bed and only 32'gallons.
My my 21' Class C Minne Winne, (as built by Winnebago in 1975), had the water tank, the gas tank, 2 20 lb. LP tanks, a generator, a spare tire, a couch and a closet behind the rear axle.
(It was impossible to load correctly/safely if/when the tanks where full).
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 10:15:31 AM by mel s »

jubileee

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2017, 10:54:17 AM »
The federal (National Highway) single axle weight limit for motorhomes was raised to  23k a few years ago. Note I said motorhomes - different vehicle may have different limits.  States also have their own limits, which apply ion roads under the exclusive control (but not on any road designated as a US route or Interstate).

All this is academic, since most Class C's are built on a van cutaway chassis, typically a Ford E450. That chassis has a 14,050 lb GVWR and the rear axle is even less.

Not to nit pick, but it's 24k and interstate only with access to food, lodging, and repairs. Other U.S. routes still fall into state jurisdiction. Feds just applied the passenger bus exemption to motorhomes 5-6 years ago.

TonyDtorch

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2017, 11:54:19 AM »
Not to nit pick, but it's 24k and interstate only with access to food, lodging, and repairs. Other U.S. routes still fall into state jurisdiction. Feds just applied the passenger bus exemption to motorhomes 5-6 years ago.

yes..a DOT national law.....then could someone explain why they build the Newell motorhome right here in the U.S. with the drive axle that is rated at a 28k lb. GAW ?

for some reason those GVW laws and axle weight laws don't apply to RV's
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 12:05:28 PM by TonyDtorch »

ducnut

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2017, 12:03:56 PM »
yes..a DOT national law.....then could someone explain why they build the Newell motorhome with the drive axle that is rated at a 28k lb. GAW ?

for some reason those GVW laws don't apply to RV's

Same reason you can order your semi-tractor with any number of axle capacities. Just because it's rated at that doesn't mean you can, wherever you feel like.

TonyDtorch

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2017, 12:06:40 PM »
Same reason you can order your semi-tractor with any number of axle capacities. Just because it's rated at that doesn't mean you can, wherever you feel like.

Aw...but you can in a motorhome.  I have a friend with a Newell that's been driving it all across America for the last 5 years.

if it is illegal,  then every Prevost and Newell on the road is a giant rolling lawsuit..

Those engineers at the Newell factory must be total idiots.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 12:16:04 PM by TonyDtorch »

KandT

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2017, 03:16:13 PM »
Thank you for all the replies.  Surprisingly,  ;) we have strayed from the topic at hand and that is how to get the rear axle weight down 1000 pounds or is that not really all that over loaded?  The front axle does have about 700 pounds of unused potential.

I guess my point is if he moves 1 pound from way behind the rear axle to above the cab (class C) he will really make at least a 2 pound difference - right?  Not that he wants to store 500 pounds above his head - but that is the concept???
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

TonyDtorch

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2017, 04:27:17 PM »
if he is over the tire weight rating it really is a safety issue. (especially if you think you have to drive 70 mph on the highway )
   
He could replace the wheels and tires with a larger set and add some overload springs. But like Gary said almost every other RV on the road is overweight on an axle or 2,  and very likely none of those RVers ever even knew it. ( ignorance is bliss ) 

He just needs to keep in mind he is driving a large vehicle that is maxed out.  So get new tires with a TPMS system, slow down, and enjoy it.   Just like all the other overloaded Class C's and other motorhomes on the road.
 ;)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 04:38:01 PM by TonyDtorch »

ducnut

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2017, 06:18:06 PM »
Aw...but you can in a motorhome.  I have a friend with a Newell that's been driving it all across America for the last 5 years.

if it is illegal,  then every Prevost and Newell on the road is a giant rolling lawsuit..

Those engineers at the Newell factory must be total idiots.

^^^ Your statements; not mine.  :-\

I had a Super C owner tell me every aspect of his coach is legally overweight, by DOT standards, even empty. Smartly, he upgraded his tires to a much higher load-rated tire. But, neither of us could understand why a coach manufacturer would ever do that.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2017, 12:34:41 PM »
Quote
then could someone explain why they build the Newell motorhome right here in the U.S. with the drive axle that is rated at a 28k lb. GAW ?


There are also vehicles that are rated to go 100+ mph and you can't legally do that either.  ;D
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2017, 12:55:28 PM »
Quote
Not to nit pick, but it's 24k and interstate only with access to food, lodging, and repairs.

I stand corrected - it is indeed 24k.   :-[
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

TonyDtorch

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Re: A Friend overweight on rear axle of class C
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2017, 02:06:01 PM »

I had a Super C owner tell me every aspect of his coach is legally overweight, by DOT standards, even empty.    Smartly, he upgraded his tires to a much higher load-rated tire.   But, neither of us could understand why a coach manufacturer would ever do that.

like I said...it only matters in the commercial trucking world.  GVW limits are mostly about road tax.

Coach makers do that because not that many Class C's or Newells ever crash, explode and kill people from being over the GVW.   ;)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 06:18:10 PM by TonyDtorch »

 

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