Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!

Hi everyone,
So I started off with a cruiser RV Radiance (bunkhouse TT with 2 slides and an island Kit). It was our first RV ever and, never having a TT before we were really rolling the dice. It worked out well and my wife and family loved it.
We now want to upgrade and we are looking for good quality 5th wheels (most likely a Toy Hauler). I came across the Jayco 355W SEISMIC WAVE  (I like the warranty and have heard good things) and the Grand Design M350. Looking to cap out around the 70-75K price but would love to be in the 60's. Important features for us is Quality (of course) Larger fridge, and a decent size bunk/loft (the Grand Design has a 38"X80" loft.witch is great) in addition to the two that lower from the ceiling in the garage. We have 3 kiddos.  Also, I'm pulling this with a 2014 Ram 2500 deisel. 16,750 lb tow capability. and a 1936lb. payload. (going to put helper airbags). So thats another thing to consider.
....And go.
...And THANKS!!

AFAIK airbags don't increase payload.  They may enable you to max your payload and have more stability and control then you would otherwise.....I will let others hash that out. AFAIC with a 1900# payload and a presumed 20% pin weight you won't be hauling much of a 5W.  Even a 9,000 pound loaded trailer will place about 1,800 pounds in your truck, and you haven't added a hitch, loaded all your stuff and placed 5 passengers in the vehicle.
You need more truck IMO.  At least a 3,000# payload.

I suspect your misreading  your numbers.  The 16,000 you mentioned is probably the trucks GCWR.  If thats so, you need to start by subtracting the trucks loaded, ready to camp weight from that. What is the trucks GVWR?  RAWR? 

There is no way a 3/4 can tow that 5er. It might be able to pull it, but as far as braking and handling in a cross wind it would be a disaster.

OK I need to understand this, Its a bit confusing. I looked at a 5thwheel guide and it said. "Max Towing" 16750lb.  I didn't think that included the truck weight? So I was looking at its Gross Vehicle Weight of 13,500lb. I thought that was in my wheel house. enlighten me please, I don't get it. thanks!

Just to be clear.

GVWR is the max weight your vehicle should weigh when fully loaded.  This includes everything you have placed in and intend to place in the TV from the day it came home, any dealer ad on's that may not be included in the original weight of the TV.

GCWR is the max your TV and trailer should weigh combined.  That includes the above and your fully loaded trailer. Not the phony numbers the dealer will give you.

Again AFAIC your payload is far too low to tow most 5W.

Sorry, what is AFAIC?

"As Far As I'm Concerned" 

ok I found this info for my truck...
GCWR: 25,000lb
GAWR: F:6000lb R:6500lb
GVWR: 9900lb
Total base weight: 8261lb
also max load on trailer it says 16,570lb

Not sure what this means but I'm sure you do.

So if this is correct I would add trailer weight of 13,500lb plus gvwr of 9900lb I'm at 23,400.  if i add another 1000lbs. of travel gear, I'm at 24,400.  Cutting it too close? and is this the number I should be looking at?

Welcome to the forum- you are starting at the right place

get the truck weighed, full tank, passengers any gear, add the hitch for the 5th wheel, etc.
base weight won't include any options the truck might have
the experts here will help you with the numbers - don't rely on the camper sales people.

Copy Thanks

does anyone recommend a 5thwheel hitch installer that could give me some accurate numbers?

That Grand Design 350M is my dream rig for my next upgrade!  MAN I LOVE that RV!!  It is perfect for all the reasons you mentioned, plus it has a fuel tank for the "toys" (I will fill mine with diesel), three air conditioners, that awesome back patio, the bath and a half, two awnings and an epic shower.  The shower is a requirement for me on whatever I get next because my current KZ Spree 262RKS has the same spacious shower.  I will have no problem pulling it with my 3500 and pull my current one with no load leveler or sway control.  At the farm, I have bumper pull and gooseneck trailers.  Cant beat the way a gooseneck pulls, plus you can back em into tighter spots and have a longer trailer with no more overall rig length.  I drool over this one because it is the exact setup I want but will most likely buy new. https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2015-Grand-Design-MOMENTUM-350M-121705842

AlanD said:

So if this is correct I would add trailer weight of 13,500lb plus gvwr of 9900lb I'm at 23,400.  if i add another 1000lbs. of travel gear, I'm at 24,400.  Cutting it too close? and is this the number I should be looking at?

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter.  According to your OP your payload is 1,936.  Your pin weight alone will exceed that number.
Even the dry weight will exceed that number by 600-700. In reality your pin weight will be more like 3,000 pounds or more.  Add another 1000 for passengers and gear (conservative IMO) and you have 4000 pounds.  You are about 2000 past your payload.  The trailer doesn't ride for free.

You need more truck or far less trailer.

AlanD said:

Sorry, what is AFAIC?

Click to expand...

Have you ever heard of Google? Just type it into the address bar and Google will tell you in three seconds. ;D

What's google

What does the trailer doesn't ride for free mean?

So are there any opinions on jayco or grand design as a manufacturer?

Welcome to the Forum.  Thanks for coming BEFORE purchase!

The Library has a number of articles that may help.

There are 5 different weights that must be considered when towing.  They are truck GVWR (weight of fully loaded truck with trailer attached), Truck GCWR (weight of fully loaded truck and FW combined), Front and Rear GAWR and Max Tow rating.  In my experience, if the GVWR is within limits, the other weights will usually - but not always - be okay.

By definition, Payload = GVWR - actual wt of empty truck with full fuel tank.

The Max Tow number is the Advertising Dept. dream.  It assumes a BASE MODEL with the drive train that gives the biggest number.  It includes Max Tow as the only option, no cargo and only 2 passengers at 150# each. Nothing more.  Every pound of options (Crew Cab is heavy!) and every pound of passengers over 300# must be subtracted from the max tow.

A much better approach is working from your Max Payload of 1936#  I assume this is from the yellow placard and the most accurate number.  This is the max weight you may add to the truck, including passengers, FW hitch, FW pin wt (20% of GROSS  FW wt) and any other cargo in the truck or bed.

The GVWR of the FW is 13,500#, so it will have a pin wt of 20% of that, or 2700#.  YOU ARE ALREADY 800# OVERWEIGHT!  Now add a 200# hitch and 1000# of passengers and cargo.  You are now a full TON or 2,000# overweight.  You would be overweight with my F350 SRW with that load!

Because the FW places 20% of its load in the truck bed, it is limited in FW towing.  It can, however tow a nice TT.

I hope this is understandable for you.