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Author Topic: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!  (Read 855 times)

AlanD

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Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« on: August 08, 2017, 12:51:59 PM »
Hi everyone,
So I started off with a cruiser RV Radiance (bunkhouse TT with 2 slides and an island Kit). It was our first RV ever and, never having a TT before we were really rolling the dice. It worked out well and my wife and family loved it.
We now want to upgrade and we are looking for good quality 5th wheels (most likely a Toy Hauler). I came across the Jayco 355W SEISMIC WAVE  (I like the warranty and have heard good things) and the Grand Design M350. Looking to cap out around the 70-75K price but would love to be in the 60's. Important features for us is Quality (of course) Larger fridge, and a decent size bunk/loft (the Grand Design has a 38"X80" loft.witch is great) in addition to the two that lower from the ceiling in the garage. We have 3 kiddos.  Also, I'm pulling this with a 2014 Ram 2500 deisel. 16,750 lb tow capability. and a 1936lb. payload. (going to put helper airbags). So thats another thing to consider.
....And go.
...And THANKS!!

Gods Country

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2017, 01:02:12 PM »
AFAIK airbags don't increase payload.  They may enable you to max your payload and have more stability and control then you would otherwise.....I will let others hash that out. AFAIC with a 1900# payload and a presumed 20% pin weight you won't be hauling much of a 5W.  Even a 9,000 pound loaded trailer will place about 1,800 pounds in your truck, and you haven't added a hitch, loaded all your stuff and placed 5 passengers in the vehicle.
You need more truck IMO.  At least a 3,000# payload.

donn

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2017, 01:04:59 PM »
I suspect your misreading  your numbers.  The 16,000 you mentioned is probably the trucks GCWR.  If thats so, you need to start by subtracting the trucks loaded, ready to camp weight from that. What is the trucks GVWR?  RAWR? 

SeilerBird

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2017, 01:11:21 PM »
There is no way a 3/4 can tow that 5er. It might be able to pull it, but as far as braking and handling in a cross wind it would be a disaster.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2017, 01:27:30 PM »
OK I need to understand this, Its a bit confusing. I looked at a 5thwheel guide and it said. "Max Towing" 16750lb.  I didn't think that included the truck weight? So I was looking at its Gross Vehicle Weight of 13,500lb. I thought that was in my wheel house. enlighten me please, I don't get it. thanks!

Gods Country

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 01:51:01 PM »
Just to be clear.

GVWR is the max weight your vehicle should weigh when fully loaded.  This includes everything you have placed in and intend to place in the TV from the day it came home, any dealer ad on's that may not be included in the original weight of the TV.

GCWR is the max your TV and trailer should weigh combined.  That includes the above and your fully loaded trailer. Not the phony numbers the dealer will give you.

Again AFAIC your payload is far too low to tow most 5W.





 

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 02:17:43 PM »
Sorry, what is AFAIC?

Gods Country

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 02:31:03 PM »
"As Far As I'm Concerned"  ;)

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 02:33:47 PM »
ok I found this info for my truck...
GCWR: 25,000lb
GAWR: F:6000lb R:6500lb
GVWR: 9900lb
Total base weight: 8261lb
also max load on trailer it says 16,570lb

Not sure what this means but I'm sure you do.:)

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 02:39:17 PM »
So if this is correct I would add trailer weight of 13,500lb plus gvwr of 9900lb I'm at 23,400.  if i add another 1000lbs. of travel gear, I'm at 24,400.  Cutting it too close? and is this the number I should be looking at?

SMR

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 02:40:01 PM »
Welcome to the forum- you are starting at the right place

get the truck weighed, full tank, passengers any gear, add the hitch for the 5th wheel, etc.
base weight won't include any options the truck might have
the experts here will help you with the numbers - don't rely on the camper sales people.
Gonna put the world away for a minute......
Steve
2016 Bighorn 3760 EL
2015 Ford F350
me, DW and our 2 dogs

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 02:52:05 PM »
Copy Thanks

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 02:53:14 PM »
does anyone recommend a 5thwheel hitch installer that could give me some accurate numbers?


gravesdiesel

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 02:58:21 PM »
That Grand Design 350M is my dream rig for my next upgrade!  MAN I LOVE that RV!!  It is perfect for all the reasons you mentioned, plus it has a fuel tank for the "toys" (I will fill mine with diesel), three air conditioners, that awesome back patio, the bath and a half, two awnings and an epic shower.  The shower is a requirement for me on whatever I get next because my current KZ Spree 262RKS has the same spacious shower.  I will have no problem pulling it with my 3500 and pull my current one with no load leveler or sway control.  At the farm, I have bumper pull and gooseneck trailers.  Cant beat the way a gooseneck pulls, plus you can back em into tighter spots and have a longer trailer with no more overall rig length.  I drool over this one because it is the exact setup I want but will most likely buy new. https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2015-Grand-Design-MOMENTUM-350M-121705842
2016 KZ Spree 262 RKS
2003 Dodge 3500 4 door flatbed 4x4 diesel, 6 speed
1996 Dodge 3500 extra cab flatbed 4x4 diesel 5 speed
2006 Arctic Cat TRV diesel 4x4 ATV
(2) 1981 Yamaha G1 2 cycle golf carts
Many other diesels on the farm!

Gods Country

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 02:58:52 PM »
So if this is correct I would add trailer weight of 13,500lb plus gvwr of 9900lb I'm at 23,400.  if i add another 1000lbs. of travel gear, I'm at 24,400.  Cutting it too close? and is this the number I should be looking at?

It doesn't matter.  According to your OP your payload is 1,936.  Your pin weight alone will exceed that number.
Even the dry weight will exceed that number by 600-700. In reality your pin weight will be more like 3,000 pounds or more.  Add another 1000 for passengers and gear (conservative IMO) and you have 4000 pounds.  You are about 2000 past your payload.  The trailer doesn't ride for free.

You need more truck or far less trailer.

SeilerBird

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 03:26:00 PM »
Sorry, what is AFAIC?
Have you ever heard of Google? Just type it into the address bar and Google will tell you in three seconds. ;D
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 06:09:10 PM »
What's google

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2017, 06:10:06 PM »
What does the trailer doesn't ride for free mean?

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 06:18:40 PM »
So are there any opinions on jayco or grand design as a manufacturer?

grashley

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 08:11:34 PM »
Welcome to the Forum.  Thanks for coming BEFORE purchase!

The Library has a number of articles that may help.

There are 5 different weights that must be considered when towing.  They are truck GVWR (weight of fully loaded truck with trailer attached), Truck GCWR (weight of fully loaded truck and FW combined), Front and Rear GAWR and Max Tow rating.  In my experience, if the GVWR is within limits, the other weights will usually - but not always - be okay.

By definition, Payload = GVWR - actual wt of empty truck with full fuel tank.

The Max Tow number is the Advertising Dept. dream.  It assumes a BASE MODEL with the drive train that gives the biggest number.  It includes Max Tow as the only option, no cargo and only 2 passengers at 150# each. Nothing more.  Every pound of options (Crew Cab is heavy!) and every pound of passengers over 300# must be subtracted from the max tow.

A much better approach is working from your Max Payload of 1936#  I assume this is from the yellow placard and the most accurate number.  This is the max weight you may add to the truck, including passengers, FW hitch, FW pin wt (20% of GROSS  FW wt) and any other cargo in the truck or bed.

The GVWR of the FW is 13,500#, so it will have a pin wt of 20% of that, or 2700#.  YOU ARE ALREADY 800# OVERWEIGHT!  Now add a 200# hitch and 1000# of passengers and cargo.  You are now a full TON or 2,000# overweight.  You would be overweight with my F350 SRW with that load!

Because the FW places 20% of its load in the truck bed, it is limited in FW towing.  It can, however tow a nice TT.

I hope this is understandable for you.
Preacher Gordon
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS - not yet received
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2017, 08:47:21 PM »
Yes and thank you for your input. Its deceiving at the campgrounds when there are a bunch of 2500 or 250s  pulling a 5th wheels! So I guess I will either buy a 3500 series truck which then begs the question Is a class A motor home a better option. After the 70k truck and 70k toy hauler, I'm in it for a 150k. maybe a class A is a better option. 
I did see the Safety Hitch system. its pretty interesting. have you guys seen this?

longhaul

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 09:50:36 PM »
So if this is correct I would add trailer weight of 13,500lb plus gvwr of 9900lb I'm at 23,400.  if i add another 1000lbs. of travel gear, I'm at 24,400.  Cutting it too close? and is this the number I should be looking at?
   Your 2500 Ram has a tow rating that tells you how much trailer the truck can pull. The truck with the Cummins/drivetrain won't have any problems pulling that much weight. Your fine so far.

 Now the bad news part..... your 2500 RAM has those small 6500 RAWR numbers. RAWR includes the wheels/tires and rear springs. Your trucks rear axle  can weigh in the 3100-3200 lb range leaving around  3300 lbs for a payload in the bed. Now add 200 lbs for a hitch and 250 lbs for other gear/stuff and a percentage of occupants which leaves your truck with around 2800 lbs for a wet pin weight.
  Thats your biggest safety issue.
   Some 3/4 ton/one ton SRW truck owners have upgraded to 19.5" wheels and tires with air bags or suspension help such as SuperSprings or other aftermarket products out here. Your call there.

 Now you ask why Ram gave the 2500 truck a 16xxx lb tow rating ?? Simply put the tow rating covers all types of trailers...not just a 16k 5th wheel rv trailer that have very heavy hitch weights.
 Example is my 16K triaxle goose neck stock trailer I custom haul cattle with. I can load the trailer with the big animals over the trailers axles and the young liteweight stuff in front of the trailers axles to keep hitch loads lite and within the trucks RAWR.

Either mod the truck or look at 12k-13k GVWR 5th wheel trailers.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2017, 08:24:57 AM »
Phew! You must be really confused by now!

Your truck tow rating is maybe barely adequate for those trailers, but the truck 1936 lb payload is woefully inadequate for any large 5W. A 5W places 20%-25% of its loaded weight on the hitch, which means the truck has to carry at least 20% of the trailer GVWR. That Jayco grosses 16,500 lbs, so the hitch weight is around 3300 lbs. Add in the weight of passengers and the hitch itself and the weight in/on the truck is about 2x the rated payload.

So, more truck or less trailer. Make your choice. There are 3/4 ton trucks with much higher payloads than yours, but for the size of trailer you are looking at, a one ton dually is a much better fit. You will want a payload approaching 4000 lbs.

A Class A toy hauler is a relatively rare beast, so selection on the used market will be limited. I say used because a new Diesel Pusher toyhauler is going to be outside your budget, even throwing the truck cost into the deal. However, a gas model toyhauler runs about $150k, e.g. the Thor Outlaw.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

skeeter_ca

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2017, 04:43:42 PM »
I just bought a 27' 5th wheel(9200lbs). I'm pulling it with my 97 Dodge Ram2500 4x4. I am within about 500lbs of my 16,000lbs max GCWR, maybe even at it. While the truck does pull the trailer fine on level roads, it does need more power for the hills. It handles well even in strong crosswinds i encountered across the plains of New Mexico and Texas. But i would not want to go any heavier without upgrading to a bigger truck, even if it would pull it.

skeeter

AlanD

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2017, 06:11:44 PM »
Guys!!
THANKS A TON for this information! or at least  3/4 ton. (sorry couldn't help it) So, much to my dismay I will follow everyones advice on this. Just one last grab of hope on a question.... One of you guys mentioned Modding the truck. What would that entail? New rear axle? different suspension? Airbags? I'm sure its not that easy as I would assume someone would have mentioned sooner as an option.
and truly, thanks for all the imput.
cheers,
-Alan

xrated

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2017, 07:26:23 PM »
Welcome to the Forum.  Thanks for coming BEFORE purchase!

The Library has a number of articles that may help.

There are 5 different weights that must be considered when towing.  They are truck GVWR (weight of fully loaded truck with trailer attached), Truck GCWR (weight of fully loaded truck and FW combined), Front and Rear GAWR and Max Tow rating.  In my experience, if the GVWR is within limits, the other weights will usually - but not always - be okay.

The Bold and underlined above ^^^^^^ is a mistake!  The GVWR of the truck is the nameplate number on the white sticker on the door pillar.  For example, a Ford F250 3/4Ton truck would typically be 10,000 lbs  That is the truck only ....Gross Vehicle Weight Rating!
2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually King Ranch Diesel
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RVRAC

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2017, 07:38:21 PM »
Please listen to the advise of the folks in this forum, or you will not be happy.  You don't have enough truck with that payload for most good size FW.  The ones you mentioned are among the heavier ones. So, you need a different truck or a small FW. Trying to help you.
2017 Leprechaun 311 FS
Toad: 2016 Jeep Patriot
American Dolly
Home: WI
Snowbird 6 months/yr.

JFN

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2017, 07:43:04 PM »
Here are some Class C haulers. http://racingrvs.com/
John & Connie Neal
2006 Dodge 2500 5.9, PacBrake
Smarty Jr Tuned
2006 KZ 29.5' Durango
MaxBrake, Brake Controller
Pressure Pro TPMS
K6JFN

gravesdiesel

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2017, 09:31:47 AM »
You can swap out your rear axle to a DRW type and add the "helper springs" if it does not already have them.  I did this to my 1996 Dodge, which I had ordered new with all the heavy duty options.  If you really like your truck, this may be the way to go.  If not, it definitely has a good trade in value or used market value.  Dodge/Cummins trucks hold their value well.  I am seeking a very similar setup to what you are looking to get, as my ole 2003 has 175,000 miles on it and I use it daily.  I have been considering getting a "fender dually", but really use the heck out of a flatbed.  They are so rugged and handy!  With a truck/fifth wheel setup, you will have the truck for day to day chores and have a vehicle to drive after you set up camp.  With a class A, you have a camper who's engine/powertrain goes unused, except when you go camping.
2016 KZ Spree 262 RKS
2003 Dodge 3500 4 door flatbed 4x4 diesel, 6 speed
1996 Dodge 3500 extra cab flatbed 4x4 diesel 5 speed
2006 Arctic Cat TRV diesel 4x4 ATV
(2) 1981 Yamaha G1 2 cycle golf carts
Many other diesels on the farm!

Sandhill Guy

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2017, 09:37:40 AM »
I did a good bit of research on 5th wheels before I bought mine. I have a 2015 GMC 2500 Duramax with a max pin weight of 2250 lbs. It can tow a 17,000lb. 5th wheel but the pin weight is the limiting factor. I decided to get a 31foot 5th wheel with a gross weight of 10,000lbs. When I weighed it the pin weight was about 1800 lbs. I would not be comfortable going any bigger with this truck. BTW I love my Grand Design Reflection 27RL.
Doug and Barbara
Our girls in fur suits Abbey and Meg


2015 GMC 2500HD Duramax 4x4
2015 Grand Design Reflection 27RL
Sanford, North Carolina

grashley

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2017, 04:25:42 PM »
The Bold and underlined above ^^^^^^ is a mistake!  The GVWR of the truck is the nameplate number on the white sticker on the door pillar.  For example, a Ford F250 3/4Ton truck would typically be 10,000 lbs  That is the truck only ....Gross Vehicle Weight Rating!
You are correct, but only if you include the pin / hitch weight as well, since it is carried by the truck.  My statement was    weight of the TRUCK  with the trailer attached (omitted - trailer NOT on the scale), which is correct, just poorly worded by me.
Preacher Gordon
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS - not yet received
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

grashley

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2017, 04:36:41 PM »
I did a good bit of research on 5th wheels before I bought mine. I have a 2015 GMC 2500 Duramax with a max pin weight of 2250 lbs. It can tow a 17,000lb. 5th wheel but the pin weight is the limiting factor. I decided to get a 31foot 5th wheel with a gross weight of 10,000lbs. When I weighed it the pin weight was about 1800 lbs. I would not be comfortable going any bigger with this truck. BTW I love my Grand Design Reflection 27RL.

There is a big problem here somewhere!  A 17,000# FW will have a MINIMUM pin wt of 15%, or 2550#.  Well above your stated capacity.  It may have been a published fantasy number, but totally wrong in the real world. 

Your decision to go with a 10,000# FW is very smart on your part.  Based on your numbers, that is very doable.
Preacher Gordon
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS - not yet received
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

steveblonde

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2017, 06:55:28 PM »
There is a big problem here somewhere!  A 17,000# FW will have a MINIMUM pin wt of 15%, or 2550#.  Well above your stated capacity.  It may have been a published fantasy number, but totally wrong in the real world. 

Your decision to go with a 10,000# FW is very smart on your part.  Based on your numbers, that is very doable.

Agreed
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2017 Ford Escape my Daily driver - first Ford in 25 yrs
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually (First Ford Truck after 17 GMs) 5200lbs cargo/weight capacity named Kong


" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh?

xrated

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2017, 07:51:06 PM »
You are correct, but only if you include the pin / hitch weight as well, since it is carried by the truck.  My statement was    weight of the TRUCK  with the trailer attached (omitted - trailer NOT on the scale), which is correct, just poorly worded by me.

Truck GVWR has absolutely nothing to do with the trailer in anyway, shape, or form.  The Truck Gross Vehicle, Weight Rating is just that.....the amount of weight, including the truck, that you can legally have on or in the truck. 

If the truck weighed 9200 lbs and had a GVWR of 14,000 lbs, that would leave you  4800 lbs to add to the truck (the payload).  And that could be a pallet of bricks in the bed that weighs 4800 lbs...OR a load of firewood that weighs 2400 lbs AND a pin weight of your 5ver that is 2400 lbs......OR any other combination that you can think of that totals 4800 lbs.

So if you used up all of your payload (4800 lbs) on that load of brick, theoretically, you couldn't even add a passenger that weighs 150 lbs without being over the payload capacity.  I realize that is a silly example, but the point is, the truck is only going to allow (legally) a certain amount of payload weight and it can be any combination of added weight, such as I've described above.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 07:54:14 PM by xrated »
2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually King Ranch Diesel
2017 Keystone Fuzion Impact 303
Track Bike  2008 GSX-R750
"If it ain't Fast......It ain't Fun

lone_star_dsl

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2017, 03:55:11 PM »
First off, your truck has the same frame, power train, and brakes that a 3500 dually has. You have the same axles that a 3500 single wheel has. The only thing that makes your truck a 2500 is the suspension.

You can supplement the suspension but your limiting factor is the weight on the tires. If you have enough capacity in the tires, you can certainly pull the trailer.

Having pulled large trailers with SRW trucks many times, you will be low on stability, especially in crosswinds. If you ever blow one of the drive tires on your truck, and still manage to keep the rig upright, be ready to buy yourself a new seat because you will certainly soil it.
2007 KZ Sportsman 36SE3 Toy Hauler
2016 Ram 3500, CTD, Aisin, Dually
Monument, CO

gravesdiesel

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2017, 12:24:21 PM »
lone star dsl is correct.  you can also get load range G tires for these trucks, which will help with carrying capacity, along with the 3500 springs.
2016 KZ Spree 262 RKS
2003 Dodge 3500 4 door flatbed 4x4 diesel, 6 speed
1996 Dodge 3500 extra cab flatbed 4x4 diesel 5 speed
2006 Arctic Cat TRV diesel 4x4 ATV
(2) 1981 Yamaha G1 2 cycle golf carts
Many other diesels on the farm!

bronco78

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2017, 03:13:22 PM »
Just read through this thread. Interesting information. We have a 27 ft TT but are wanting to upgrade to a 5th wheel in the spring.
I purchased a 2017 F350 SRW Power Stroke a few months ago. My GVWR is 11,500. My payload is 3,435. If I'm reading all this correctly I want to stay in the 12,000 lb or less 5th wheel category to be safely within my limits of the truck for pin weight.. Is this Correct?

Gods Country

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2017, 03:32:10 PM »
Just read through this thread. Interesting information. We have a 27 ft TT but are wanting to upgrade to a 5th wheel in the spring.
I purchased a 2017 F350 SRW Power Stroke a few months ago. My GVWR is 11,500. My payload is 3,435. If I'm reading all this correctly I want to stay in the 12,000 lb or less 5th wheel category to be safely within my limits of the truck for pin weight.. Is this Correct?

12 k loaded not dry.  That still only leaves 1,000 pounds for passengers and cargo and a hitch.  While doable I personally like more wiggle room and not maxing out my payload.  Granted the larger and heavier the truck the less of an issue that may be, if at all.

bronco78

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2017, 10:40:08 AM »
12 k loaded not dry.  That still only leaves 1,000 pounds for passengers and cargo and a hitch.  While doable I personally like more wiggle room and not maxing out my payload.  Granted the larger and heavier the truck the less of an issue that may be, if at all.

With the storage these newer 5th wheels have I don't see me having much cargo on the truck except the hitch. My wife and I and the dog and a cooler in the crew cab.
When shopping for a 5er should one always use 20% for the pin Weight? 

Gods Country

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2017, 11:07:22 AM »
20% is middle of the road average.  Could be more if you opt to load at lot into the trailer. Could be less if your are a minimalist. 

Without knowing your final weights ( and nobody does with a new purchase) 20% of a max loaded loaded trailer weight, and hopefully staying within 80-85% of your other towing and weight specs gives you breathing room for mis-calculations and other under estimated weight, and should give you a reasonably confident overview.

Strangely a lot of people seem to assume minimal weight and maximum capabilities.

bronco78

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Re: Choices to make on a 5th wheel...HELP!?!?!
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2017, 02:30:00 PM »
I went to my truck and got my scale tickets from weighing it. I took it straight to a scale from the dealer with a full tank of fuel and me in it and it weighed 8,060 lbs.
I had Line-x sprayed in and a retractable tonneau cover put on. Took it back and it weighed 8,320 lbs. Weighed the rear axle at that time and it was 3,540.  My door sticker says rear axle weight ratio is 7,230 lbs. Subtract 3,540 from that and it leaves 3,690 which is more than the payload rating

 

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