Blind Spot Detection Questions

Hello All,

I wanted to get an idea for everyone?s thoughts on Blind Spot Detection either coming standard on all RV mirrors straight from the RV manufacturer, or as an option to upgrade mirrors currently on your RV.

Note: When referring to BSD, I mean having an icon in your mirror that flashes if someone is in your blind spot when making a lane change.

Questions are as follows (please reply to any or all):

1. Do you think BSD will benefit RV drivers, increasing their awareness and safety?
2. Do you consider it a useful technology?
3. Do you think BSD should come standard on all RV?s out of the factory?
4. Would you prefer to purchase an RV with BSD or the same model RV with no BSD option?
5. Everything else being somewhat comparable, would you prefer to purchase one RV model with BSD over the other RV model with no BSD?
6. Would you prefer a visual blind spot icon flash only, or a subtle audio cue as well?
7. Does your RV currently have BSD?
8. Would you replace your current RV mirror with one that offered BSD built in?

I am a former OTR driver who believes that if you set your mirrors correctly, you won't have a blind spot, so this technology, while may help some drivers, will do me little good. The way I have my mirrors on my Adventurer set right now, I have no blind spots. With a little knowledge or training, anyone can do the same thing.

Is this a joke? I have been driving RVs most of my life and never felt the need for blind spot detection. If you feel you need it then either you don't have your mirrors set properly as John said or you are driving too recklessly, probably both. You need to slow down and not drive an RV like you drive a car.

John Stephens said:

I am a former OTR driver who believes that if you set your mirrors correctly, you won't have a blind spot, so this technology, while may help some drivers, will do me little good. The way I have my mirrors on my Adventurer set right now, I have no blind spots. With a little knowledge or training, anyone can do the same thing.

Click to expand...

Hi John, would you mind passing on your knowledge as to how to do this? Or, perhaps a link to some site that will help us learn?
Thank you.

Having owned an Lincoln MKZ Hybrid with BSD I am a big fan of this.  Yes I can see vehicles in my 2-part mirror, but it can never be as good as a light that flashes when somebody in in that zone.  Once I see that detector light up I look even more carefully at what is there.  The little convex mirror on my CMax toad is advertised as BSD, but that is a joke.  I like the 2-part plano mirror on RV much better, but there it has more space to work with that doesn't exist on the CMax. Would I pay extra for this?  Sure.

The way I set mine is to move the left mirror until the right hand edge of the mirror is showing just a hint of the left side of the motorhome. The right hand mirror shows just a hint of the right side of the motorhome. Then I use blind spot mirror on each mirror set the same way. This is the ones I use and they work great. Completely adjustable and very bright.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DKT0DO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I don't like the technology and I would never buy a vehicle with it.  Too many times I've been cut off by people merging onto a highway who move right over to the center lane without shoulder checking.  They're still going slower than the flow of traffic, and the BSD system doesn't see you coming in advance, it only detects when you're in the blind spot.  Tech like this makes people complacent, and they end up relying on the system to check for them.  What if it's not working?  Same goes for lane keeping assist, automatic braking, automatic cruise control etc... It just gives people an excuse to distract themselves and think they can pay less attention to what they're doing: DRIVING.

Dorian said:

I don't like the technology and I would never buy a vehicle with it.  Too many times I've been cut off by people merging onto a highway who move right over to the center lane without shoulder checking.  They're still going slower than the flow of traffic, and the BSD system doesn't see you coming in advance, it only detects when you're in the blind spot.  Tech like this makes people complacent, and they end up relying on the system to check for them.  What if it's not working?  Same goes for lane keeping assist, automatic braking, automatic cruise control etc... It just gives people an excuse to distract themselves and think they can pay less attention to what they're doing: DRIVING.

Click to expand...

Let me add that I am also a big fan of active assist cruise control. Having spent years commuting in heavy traffic in the Bay Area that despite my best attention at the traffic ahead when brakes are slammed on ahead of me I could never beat the radar on my vehicle to the brakes.  This technology has saved me from a potential rear end collision more than once--and I set it for the largest possible following distance. Simply stated my reaction time will never be as good as a computer and this is not because I am distracted. 

I also like the systems that detect when I am distracted and advise to rest. It is a bit like having another wife, but it works.

Looking for a blinking light in your mirrors let you focus on the wrong object, set your mirrors and see what is coming.  A light won't tell you if is a motorcycle or a semi. Awareness of traffic can not be substituted by a blinking light.

And replacing RV mirrors? Wow, that is very expensive.

How to set your mirrors? I have set it like in the below video from the RVgeeks and it works for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldekjpYQ7Qw

A solution in search of a problem.

DutchEagle said:

How to set your mirrors? I have set it like in the below video from the RVgeeks and it works for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldekjpYQ7Qw

Click to expand...

Wow!  I've been involved in driving and training Motor Coach operators for nearly 16 years.  I have never seen a clearer explanation of mirror adjustment and use.  I have just retired from that company the last of July (primarily to allow more freedom to travel on MY time schedule), but have passed a link along to the current trainer.  Thanks for sharing. 

to Moderator--I think this valuable resource deserves a sticky.


Edit: fixed quote      -scottydl

In over 50 years of driving I have never had an accident. Here is how my mirrors are set. I don't have any blind spots but I do need to wash it.

Many years ago, a company I worked for had a fleet of folks driving company owned cars.  My group didn't, but we traveled and rented cars so we were put through the same class.
It was some outfit out of Deleware or NJ that traveled in.  Half day of classroom, then half day behind the wheel
They had a car set up as a skid simulator where the instructor could steer the rear wheels
Then we got into our own cars on an elaborate track set-up with lanes of cones.  We practiced high speed maximum effort stopping, maneuvering, etc...
It was really great stuff.... and a fun day at work....but I had grown up driving off road in the mud as a teen, some snow and ice driving, etc.... so most of it was not new for me.

Anyway, The one thing that i really learned new to me was mirror adjustment.

Seilierbirds photos,
if taken as if you were sitting in a normal head position looking forward are very close to what they taught, but not exactly....
If taken with normal head forward position and not leaning, the pics show mirrors adjusted just a bit too far rearward in my estimation.  There probably will be a bit of a blind spot (well, not exactly since he has those convex add-ons...)
That's more of the image that should be seen if you lean or tilt your head just a tiny bit to that side.

If adjusted outward just a bit, so that you can only just almost but not quite see your rear fender then with a normal head position looking forward....and never taking your eyes off the road out front,
you can see a person walk from dead behind the car through the center rearview,
then as they walk around before they leave that center mirror you will pick them up in the side mirror...
and this I think is the key area....as they continue to walk forward...before they leave that side mirror, you'll pick them up in your peripheral vision

In the case of an RV though, I think things are just a bit different, especially like as shown in that video at approx the 8:30 mark....

Brad, after 50 years of driving I have never had an accident or even a close call. I think they are adjusted properly. The photos represent what I see from my seat while driving. Works well for me. The blind spot mirrors show everything.

Ok, so I've watched the video and looked at the pictures. How is any of this different from what I learned in driver training all those years ago? Maybe it's because we learned driver training/education in school and it was more comprehensive than what the private vendors are teaching now? That's the way I've always adjusted my mirrors in any vehicle in any situation because that's how we were taught. Granted, that was over 40 years ago so things may have changed.
And to address the BSD survey. Sorry, but nothing replaces actually turning your head/body to check beside and behind you. I love my backup camera on my truck, but I still look behind me and to the sides because I know it can't cover everything.

Hammster said:

Ok, so I've watched the video and looked at the pictures. How is any of this different from what I learned in driver training all those years ago?

Click to expand...

It isn't. I am getting the feeling that rob must own a company that makes BSD and it looking to promote it. But since he is not getting the reaction he wanted I doubt he will be back here.

Hammster said:

Hi John, would you mind passing on your knowledge as to how to do this? Or, perhaps a link to some site that will help us learn?
Thank you.

Click to expand...

The Youtube video in subsequent posts is a reasonably good learning tool. One thing that I do a bit differently is to set my convex mirrors slightly farther into the body of the coach so the blind spot that is discussed is completely eliminated. As long as the vision received in each mirror overlaps just a little, you'll be okay. What I mean by that is that you should always be able to see a car in one mirror or the other until it reaches the front of your coach where you can see it out the side windows and then the windshield. You should also be able to see the fog line in your right side flat mirror at the bottom and the horizon at the top. This will allow you to see your position in your lane and afford you the time to make corrections if you are over too far on one side or the other.

Make sure when you set your mirrors that you are in your usual driving position with your seat set the way you're going to keep it. The slightest change in seat adjustment or whether you relax and lean back or tense and lean forward is going to change your mirror adjustment. If you readjust your seat back, you'll have to readjust your mirrors.

The most important point that was covered in that video is the use of scanning. An OTR driver is trained to cover each mirror (all four), the speedometer and the vision out the windshield as far in front of you as you can see every 10-12 seconds so you will be seeing the vision afforded out of each mirror at least five times per minute. That's allowing you to site in on each of the six options for two seconds each. If you feel more comfortable having more time to watch out the windshield, do it, but remember that it's going to take at least one second to focus on the different mirrors and and little bit longer to change your vision to your speedometer right in front of you. Although I will change what I want to view with the circumstances around me, my usual pattern while driving will be to site in on the flat left mirror first, then the convex, then the speedometer (because it's on the way to the other mirrors), then the flat right mirror, then the convex, and finally the view in front of me. I will watch out the windshield longer than the mirrors and if I have the cruise control on, I'll skip looking at the speedometer on one or two cycles. When you've driven your coach long enough to have it feel second nature, you'll be able to determine what site you need to pay more attention to and for what amount of time before continuing through your cycle. Nothing should be set in stone; you have to adapt to your present surroundings.

But the bottom line in my mind still remains that scanning and use of mirrors is far better than relying on a BSD. If you want to rely on things like that, you're setting yourself up for lazy driving. It is far better to pay more attention to the road than relying on an electronic device to do it for you. It might be a good supplement, but it should never replace your own vision and judgement as your primary tool.

I'll be the contrarian opinion.

While I agree there is no substitute for paying attention.  And, a properly aligned mirror is the best option.  I believe there would be value to accurate blind spot monitoring sensors. 

The system would have to be accurate to cover the length of the coach.  And, would be best as part of a "heads-up" alert system.  Visual is defiantly better than audible (audible is more distracting).  And specifically on the passenger side of the coach where the line of sight to the mirror is longer than it would be in a car.

Sensors are especially beneficial for new or infrequent drivers.  Even the best, most conscientious, trained and cautious drivers could use the help in their first few years.

I believe most of us have been driving, decided to change lanes, checked the mirrors, started to move over, looked back at the traffic ahead only to look back to the mirror to see that someone has raced alongside.  Specifically, when you're in the middle lane, having moved over to allow people to merge from the right, on your way back to the right.  Then the kid in the lowered Civic with a popcorn sounding muffler is suddenly there blowing past...

And, having been in insurance / risk management for 20+ years, I can tell you there is a direct connection between the various sensors in vehicles and a reduce both the frequency & severity of incidents. 

If it helps one time and we, or someone we might have hit, are alive or uninjured I want it!

* And, I agree with SeilerBird about Rob's likely intent.

Seirbird...yeah I get it.  I wasn't trying to say "you are doing it wrong"....just trying to relay what my takeaway from that class was, that I took as worthy of high regard.....

Hey a person can go forever without mirrors at all and still be reasonably safe drivers with clean records.... It's just a tool
My wife basically almost goes without mirrors since she refuses to adjust her mirrors to see anything but the sides of the car....

Hammster said:

Ok, so I've watched the video and looked at the pictures. How is any of this different from what I learned in driver training all those years ago? Maybe it's because we learned driver training/education in school and it was more comprehensive than what the private vendors are teaching now? That's the way I've always adjusted my mirrors in any vehicle in any situation because that's how we were taught. Granted, that was over 40 years ago so things may have changed.
And to address the BSD survey. Sorry, but nothing replaces actually turning your head/body to check beside and behind you. I love my backup camera on my truck, but I still look behind me and to the sides because I know it can't cover everything.

Click to expand...

I don't know... I was what 15 years old back then so maybe I wasn't paying attention.... although I have to say I was pretty studious back then and especially so about driving
but I don't ever recall being taught how to adjust my mirrors properly.  I had always just adjusted so that i could see if a cop was behind me.... had no idea that they were really there to eliminate blind spots.  Hey, one or two of my early cars, I'm pretty sure didn't even have passenger side mirrors!
so that's how it was different from how I was taught...

And the biggest point of all of this in the class was what you say about turning your head.  That is precisely what you should NOT be doing.  The idea is that you NEVER take your eyes off the road in front of you.  Using your mirrors, you can always see EVERYTHING, either in primary vision or in your peripheral vision.  they went into great detail about distances traveled in half a second, etc.... which I can only say was proven to me to be true when i rear ended a jag when I glanced down to my center console for about a second

Again not saying right or wrong, just what they taught and what I have come to believe....

rob13 said:

Hello All,

I wanted to get an idea for everyone?s thoughts on Blind Spot Detection either coming standard on all RV mirrors straight from the RV manufacturer, or as an option to upgrade mirrors currently on your RV.

Note: When referring to BSD, I mean having an icon in your mirror that flashes if someone is in your blind spot when making a lane change.

Questions are as follows (please reply to any or all):

1. Do you think BSD will benefit RV drivers, increasing their awareness and safety?
2. Do you consider it a useful technology?
3. Do you think BSD should come standard on all RV?s out of the factory?
4. Would you prefer to purchase an RV with BSD or the same model RV with no BSD option?
5. Everything else being somewhat comparable, would you prefer to purchase one RV model with BSD over the other RV model with no BSD?
6. Would you prefer a visual blind spot icon flash only, or a subtle audio cue as well?
7. Does your RV currently have BSD?
8. Would you replace your current RV mirror with one that offered BSD built in?

Click to expand...

Please explain the need for this data?  I assume this is some child's project?  My 4th grader knows how to write non-leading questions so it must be for a very young child.

If so, I would be happy to help out.  Otherwise please don't come on with one post and waste everyone's time.??