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Author Topic: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel  (Read 648 times)

KandT

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Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« on: September 02, 2017, 01:28:17 PM »
Anyone have pros and cons to a front end diesel in a Class A?  Seems like to only con would be noise?? 

I didn't even realize they were made this way until I recently came across one.  It was 34 foot and the owner "Claimed" to get 13 mpg but that may have been downhill with a 40 mph tailwind.''

It had the 300hp/600lbs of torque cummins isb engine. 

It slid under the air brake 26,000 pound rule  -  Seems like a good idea.

What am I missing?
2005 Winnebago Vectra
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Tiffan Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 05:07:17 PM »
They are a good rig I have a friend with one.

 I've never ridden in it, from the outside it sounds like it may be nosier than a gas rig.

What is wrong with air brakes ?  I would rather have them as long as it's not those air disk brakes.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 05:10:41 PM by TonyDtorch »

KandT

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Re: Tiffan Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 05:22:33 PM »
Nothing wrong with air brakes!  Just a new thing for me to learn AND Pennsylvania requires I get a new class to my license.  That's all.  I don't question that air brakes are better I just don't know how they work and wouldn't mind just keeping my current license and insurance.
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

TonyDtorch

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Re: Tiffan Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 06:04:43 PM »
Nothing wrong with air brakes!  Just a new thing for me to learn AND Pennsylvania requires I get a new class to my license.  That's all.  I don't question that air brakes are better I just don't know how they work and wouldn't mind just keeping my current license and insurance.

many states now require a special RV license for 26k and up....but I've never heard of any state ever enforcing it. 

it's bureaucratic fund raising through another new fee....not a new tax.... :D
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 07:44:41 PM by TonyDtorch »

Alfa38User

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 08:35:27 AM »
An air brake endorsement often requires a short course and exam so that you will understand how the air brake systems actually work as opposed to standard hydraulic brakes. A good thing, IMHO....
Stu
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 09:29:49 AM »
The Freightliner FRED (Front End Diesel) MC chassis doesn't have air brakes or air suspension. It uses a leaf spring suspension and hydraulic disc brakes.  It's essentially a typical gas chassis design with a diesel instead of a gas engine. The GVWR is 26,000 lbs, giving it somewhat more weight capacity than the Ford and Workhorse gas chassis available at that time (2006-2007). Ford's were 22,000 back then, and Workhorse had 22,000 and 24,000 lb models.

Here's a synopsis from the Tiffin RV owners website:
http://www.rvtechlibrary.com/chassis/fred.php

Reports from FRED owners stated that cabin noise was no different than a gas engine. Any front engine seems noisier than a rear (pusher) engine, though.
Gary
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KandT

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 07:50:59 AM »
Thanks all - Seems like a reasonable idea to me for us poor folks that can't afford a full pusher.  I am guessing a little easier to work on.  Sure it isn't as nice as a pusher but has the advantages of a diesel over a gas.  The Cummins engine they were using has 600 lbs of torque which isn't big by 2017 standards but respectable for the 2007 version.  I am assuming it has a little more push than the V10 gas at under 500 lbs of torque.

If I go over 26,000 pounds including the tow - Do I need the special license or only with air brakes?
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

Alfa38User

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 07:58:10 AM »
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If I go over 26,000 pounds including the tow - Do I need the special license or only with air brakes?

That will depend on the state that issued your drivers license. They do not all have the same rules. You may need both, neither or only an endorsement for air brakes.
 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 08:00:10 AM by Alfa38User »
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
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Ernie n Tara

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 08:19:54 AM »
Don't count on having more power than the V10. Horsepower is torque times rpm times nnnn,  and hp is hp. The V10 may well perform better, albeit at higher rpm.  I currently have a Cummins ISB and its no more powerful than the V10 I had before (in fact I think it's rated lower as well).

Ernie
Ernie 'n Tara

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ChasA

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 11:34:58 AM »
The Fred chassis by Freightliner has hydraulic brakes.
Apex, NC
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 11:38:03 AM »
The diesel produces its power at lower rpms, so may feel a bit more responsive, especially from standing starts. But otherwise, Hp is Hp, as Ernie says. Assuming you are willing to run either engine at its max Hp rpms, the only thing that matters is the weight-to-HP ratio.

As for the driving license, It's as Stu says. Some states require an air brake endorsement, some have an over-26,000 lb requirement, some have both and some have neither. There may also be enhanced licensing requirements for overall (combined) length and combined weight when you tow something.  If you identify the state where the license is issued, we could probably be more specific.

Quote
Sure it isn't as nice as a pusher but has the advantages of a diesel over a gas

I'm not sure what you mean by that. It has the engine advantage of diesel vs gas, but none of the other DP chassis advantages. There really isn't a lot of advantage in the engine alone. It's basically just the low end torque that produces decent horsepower at moderate rpms, and slightly better fuel economy as the loaded weight goes up. Probably a 250k mile engine life, plus maybe a a little fire safety advantage because of the lower volatility of diesel fuel vs gasoline. Most of the Diesel Pusher coach advantage comes from the other aspects of the DP chassis & body.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 11:48:01 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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KandT

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 11:40:12 AM »
Thanks Gary - Pennsylvania
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 11:57:13 AM »
PA requires a non-commercial Class B license if the GVWR or GCWR exceeds 26k lbs (that's the 26,001 dividing line you read about). Otherwise the regular (car) class of license applies to private motorhome owners/drivers.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Charlie 5320

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 11:01:50 PM »
PA requires a non-commercial Class B license if the GVWR or GCWR exceeds 26k lbs (that's the 26,001 dividing line you read about). Otherwise the regular (car) class of license applies to private motorhome owners/drivers.
That's the way IL. is too. I thought I had a non cdl class B as I had one many years ago. Don't know when it was dropped. 16,000 is the limit on a class D license even for a RV. Ya have to read the rules of the road book carefully. All it says is RVs are exempt from a CDL IF used privately.   Probably could have got by with a class C but I needed to retest anyways so I went with the class B non cdl. Took the written and driving test today. The cost was $5.00, but I just renewed my license last year. My coach is on a 22,000 chassis and I'm planning on pulling a car on a trailer so it may be over 26,000 so I opted for the class B.
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KandT

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 11:51:15 PM »
Any change to insurance rates depending on your driver's license class?

I am wondering if the legal ability to drive a larger vehicle equals higher rates??
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2017, 07:35:17 AM »
Quote
Any change to insurance rates depending on your driver's license class?

Generally not. In most cases, it is the vehicle that is insured, not the specific driver, and in fact it covers it even if the driver has no license at all.   A professional driver may have personal liability insurance in addition to the vehicle's insurance, that's that's a separate question.

I've read about Canadian insurance policies that stipulate the driver must be properly licensed for the vehicle, but have not seen that language in any US-issued policy and most states require that the vehicle liability insurance be in effect even if there is no driver or an unlicensed driver. I suppose that collision and comp could have other requirements, though.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:38:47 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
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muskoka guy

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 08:28:22 AM »
In Canada, the insurance rates are based on the principal driver. This is generally the owner, but another person may be listed as the principal driver. Anyone who presides in the same residence, generally are listed as secondary drivers. My ex got a bunch of speeding tickets, and my insurance company sent me a letter stating she was no longer allowed to drive my vehicles unless we paid a higher premium based on her driving record. Needless to say, she only drove her own vehicle after that.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Tiffin Class A Front End Diesel
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 09:06:15 AM »
Yes, and that is the case in US insurance as well. Driving track record, credit rating, legal history, age etc can and usually are all factored into the rate. There may be a discount for driver safety training too, so in that sense a professionally licensed driver (CDL) might qualify.

It's fairly common for the insurer to ask about primary & secondary drivers, the proportion that each drives, and get their license info to validate driving record (tickets, previous accidents, etc). That's generally not license class related, though.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:09:36 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

 

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