Hitch: Fifthwheel vs. Gooseneck to Fix Height Issue?

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CybexRV

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Posts
18
Hi All,

I'm a newbie and looking for expertise and wisdom.  I just bought a new 2017 Dodge Big Horn and a then a used 2012 Shockwave Fifthwheel Toyhauler.  The Fifthwheel hitch came with the deal, but I had to by the rails for the OEM fifth wheel/gooseneck package built into the bed of my shortbed.  I had originally intended to look at putting a gooseneck adapter on the fifth wheel, but since the hitch came with the unit I was hoping to save some expense.  I already had to put out $640 for the rails that work with the OEM package.

Picked the unit and hitch and once on the truck realized the toy hauler is way high in the front and way low in the back.  And thats without having my HD bikes in there.  So from an expense and hastle point of view, does anyone have any input that could help?

Thanks!
 
Both the hitch and the pin box on the 5th wheel are adjustable to help lower the front of the 5th wheel but you want to maintain at least 6" clearance above the bed rails. Others with more knowledge will be along with more (better) advice soon.
 
First you should have about 6" of clearance between the rear of the bed and the bottom the trailer as stated.  More than that you can either raise the Pin box or drop the 5th wheel hitch.    That being said it is more likely that the truck bed is higher than an older model and the trailer is too low.  If that is the case the trailer will look as if it going uphill when on level ground.  If that is the case look to see if the axle is above the springs or below.  If they are above the springs the axle can be positioned below the springs and raising the trailer 2 3/4 inches.  Also look to see how the springs are bolted to the frame.  Some have a several holes that can be used to raise or lower the spring height.  A note of caution, if you don't know how to do this hire a pro..

Wi1dBi11
 
Here are a couple pics of the box and the hitch in bed.  I box appears to be up as far as possible, and the hitch does appear to be adjustable? There are no shackle adjustments, but the axes are on top of the springs.  Don't think that will give me enough though.  Need more than 2 3/4 inches I'm guessing.
 

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CybexRV said:
Picked the unit and hitch and once on the truck realized the toy hauler is way high in the front and way low in the back.  And thats without having my HD bikes in there.  So from an expense and hastle point of view, does anyone have any input that could help?

You need to measure the clearance in order to come up with a plan. I would go as low as 5" but NO less. 6" is preferred as said.
 
OK, I will put the unit on again and get back to you all.  Thank you so much for the replies!
 
First, welcome to the Forum!    Thanks for coming and asking the best way to do it RIGHT!  We will try to help.

As a general warning, DO NOT use a FW to Gooseneck adapter that looks like a post with proper adapters.  It places way too much torque on the pin, and can do serious damage to the frame.  I know this was not in your plan, but general warning.

As Rene said, please hook up and measure FW to bed rail clearance.
It does appear the pin box is adjusted to it's  highest setting.

The best way to see how much "lift" you need is to pull the FW on to a couple of 2X8 or 2X10 and check level.  Add more 2X until it is level, or close.  Measure the height of your "wood pile" and you know how much lift you need.

If you need 5 inches of lift, for example, you could flip the axles  AND add a 2 inch block between the axles, now below the springs, and the springs.  Use longer U bolts.  2" block + 2 ?" from flip = 4 ?".

While you are playing down there, check the spring shackle bolts.  They often come with plastic shim / bushings, which wear out quickly.  Switch to wet bolts (grease able) and save many future headaches.

HAPPY CAMPING!
 
I have attached pictures of the truck and trailer.  At the middle rear of the tail gate it is 7.5 inches, and at the side of the bed is 10.5 inches at the from the bottom edge of the unit.  But as you can see there is one heck of a issue.  The stands are down, but not touching the ground.  So full weight is on the truck.

I can flip the axes, but don't think that will be enough.  So what about converting to a gooseneck?  And what other issues does that create?  Like turning issues with hitting the truck maybe?

Your thoughts ... ?
 

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Grassley,

Thank you, I never thought of using 2x's.  Initially, I did not want to lift it creating an increase in the ramp angle because we will be loading in with touring Harley's, besides having had many gooseneck equipment trailers tend to be more comfortable with them.  As not having the deal with the big cumbersome hitch in my bed was a negative. But doing as you suggest would also allow me to test the ramp out.  I am capable of flipping the axes as I used to work in brake/suspension shop and completely understand what you are suggesting.  And probable the most cost effective solution.

Question, does having the unit higher create side to side stability issues in a higher speed cornering situation like freeways in mountainous areas.  We have a few of them out here in the southwest. ;)
 
You said earlier that the hitch has room for adjustment. Lower it as far as you can and see how you end up. Looking at the picture, it's hard for me to see any adjustment. Do you  have a friend with a fifth wheel hitch? If you do, can you try it on your bed?
 
But as you can see there is one heck of a issue.  The stands are down, but not touching the ground.  So full weight is on the truck.

Hmmmm... You should have a heavy (usually electric) lowering mechanism for lifting the trailer in addition to the light extensions shown as fully extended in the picture of the front end of the trailer. This should be more than adequate for disconnecting the truck.
 
Stu, I think you misunderstood. The OP took the weight off the front legs to show us how much clearance they have between the bottom side of the RV and the truck bed/side rails. He has nom problem disconnecting or reconnecting.
 
The photos are not helpful because the FW is resting on the front legs.  We need a photo with the weight placed on the truck.

On another issue, do you have enough payload for that FW?  2500 RAM have low payload.  Just a thought
 
RVRAC said:
The photos are not helpful because the FW is resting on the front legs.  We need a photo with the weight placed on the truck.

On another issue, do you have enough payload for that FW?  2500 RAM have low payload.  Just a thought


He said the legs were not bearing weight.


CybexRV said:
I have attached pictures of the truck and trailer.  At the middle rear of the tail gate it is 7.5 inches, and at the side of the bed is 10.5 inches at the from the bottom edge of the unit.  But as you can see there is one heck of a issue.  The stands are down, but not touching the ground.  So full weight is on the truck.

I can flip the axes, but don't think that will be enough.  So what about converting to a gooseneck?  And what other issues does that create?  Like turning issues with hitting the truck maybe?

Your thoughts ... ?
 
The OP has way more clearance than the minimum needed over the bed. If the hitch is adjustable, try lowering the hitch. You should also have adjustment on the pin box. You may be able to level the fiver with these two adjustments. If the minimum clearance is reached at any spot, most likely the tailgate in your case, and the fiver is still out of level, do not take the adjustments on the hitch/pinbox any farther. You will have to work on getting the back end of the trailer up by changing up your suspension.

The first two replies here are telling you the same thing.
 
RVRAC said:
The photos are not helpful because the FW is resting on the front legs.  We need a photo with the weight placed on the truck.

The OP said  "The stands are down, but not touching the ground".  So the weight is on the truck.
I'm not familiar with that brand hitch. Can't see if there is any adjustment to lower it. It does look like the pin box cannot be adjusted to gain anymore. It's just about touching the bottom side of the RV.
 
Rene, maybe I miss typed, but no up/down adjustment on the hitch.  The box is as far up as possible.  Sorry I did not address your comment as I missed it. 

Joezeppy, thank you and I will wait to see what others say.  My only option in the bed is to go to a custom gooseneck I think.  I really didn't want to flip the axels, but that might be the way to go.  I going to get some 2x's as suggested by Grashley and so that I can really see what kind of clearance I have in the bed if I went to the gooseneck.  If not enough, then its the axel flip and maybe larger tires I guess.

Can't play with it today, but will be on it this weekend!  Then will get back with what I come up with.

Thank you all!

 
Just to reinforce an earlier comment -You should NOT use a GOOSENECK hitch on a fifth Wheel - you risk breaking the welds in the fiver neck. Many, if not all, fiver manufacturer's void their warranty if you do use one!

Ernie
 
Did you also miss the part where I said to try another hitch. Another brand may be quite a bit lower. It doesn't have to be perfectly level but real close. Or maybe just go to a dealer and take some height measurements and compare them to yours.

Looking at your second picture I see that the hitch is higher than the truck side rails. On mine, the top of the hitch is below the bed rail I'm guessing a couple of inches. Yours is real high.. That's much of your problem. A different hitch would be much better.
 
Thanks for the pics.

You have two basic adjustment points to get the FW to tow level.  These are the two points that support the FW - Pin box and wheels.

You can lower the hitch height using a different hitch that is lower or adjustable.  To obtain this height, the type of hitch does not matter, the height matters.  HOWEVER, do NOT use a pipe style gooseneck hitch.  The leverage applied to the FW is far above design standards.

Take a look at the Andersen Ultimate hitch.  It uses the gooseneck ball to attach to the truck, but in a manner that properly supports the FW pin box.  It is height adjustable.  It can be removed completely in 5 minutes and the aluminum version only weighs 37#.  Set this up to keep the FW 6 inches above the bed rails, measured at the hitch.

Use the 2X8 method to determine how much lift at the axles is still needed.
 
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