Hitch: Fifthwheel vs. Gooseneck to Fix Height Issue?

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Axle flip will give you about 5 1/2 or 6 inches of lift. As mentioned the easy way is to just pull the rig up on scrap lumber to get it level. From there the rail clearance is set then the FW height is adjusted. Correct track kits will give you 2" of lift. Some rigs have lower shackle holes that might give an inch and some tire sizes may help.  Some even end up cutting everything off and installing a sub frame. When all this is done your stabilizers may not reach or may be maxed out and you can buy longer stabilizers. The first step may also be too high so a new step may be needed or some will build a step box.

Visualize moving the axle from on top of the spring to below the spring. Measure your axle diameter plus the perch that is welded to it plus the thickness of the spring pack PLUS the thickness of the perch again you will come up with the amount of lift. As you will see, the axle doesn't flip over it just moves from on top to underneath and will have a new perch weld opposite the existing perch. While you are doing all of this or just for any suspension system I would highly recommend a wet bolt kit. The side plates are twice as thick as oem and give a very heavy duty set up. The Dexter ez flex equalizer is also another nice option.

I cant tell from your pic but some superglide hitches have two options of feet sizes. The feet are the bracket between the black upper tube and the bottom silver tube. If yours are tall you may be able to drop it an inch or so with a short foot. 
 
Ernie, thank you, I did miss that comment.  A buddy of mine in Alabama just bought a new toy hauler and had a gooseneck welded on to the box.  He also has the same truck with the OEM package in the bed.  It has four points for a FW rail kit and the center point that holds the gooseneck ball.  He loves it, but maybe he doesn't know about what you all shared.  I will call him about it, I thought he said the dealer that sold it to him did it.

Rene, the hitch came with the purchase deal and was told it is a better one because of the way it slides.  It has a Y pattern that helps in tight situations instead of having to pull pins.  When it was in the guys Dodge it was below the bed, but he had a much lower (bolt in) rail kit.  It's the rails that connect to the RAM OEM package that are raising it so much, so maybe I can talk the hitch place into taking them back (probably not) and then look at another rail kit that works with this OEM package?

Grashley, I looked at the Anderson Ultimate hitch, but I already have the receiver for the gooseneck ball in the OEM package.  I took the hitch and rails out and took a picture of the OEM bed package to you can see what I am talking about.  The pins from the FW rail kit are still installed in the bed, but you will see the plastic cover in the center.  That's where the GN ball slides in and what my buddy uses with the GN extension that they welded on to the FW box.  So all of you agree this is NOT the way to go?

QZ, I agree with the 5 1/2" to 6" from looking at it.  There are no additional holes in the shackles to adjust with.  I am still not feeling comfortable with raising the unit because of stability issues.  I liked that the unit sat lower.  Plus it just looks better in my opinion.  But even with lowering the front to the 6" above the bed I still think it is not going to be enough to get level.  Now that raises the question, do I go with axle flip first before sinking more money into the hitch setup?  Also, if flipping the axels to below the springs brings it level, does having the FW hitch slightly above the bed height as it is create any other concerns?  I don't see what those would be, but maybe some of you do?

I have a Harley Club meeting today, but I will get on the 2x test tomorrow and let you know what I come up with.  You folks are awesome for putting up with my dense newbie-ness. ;)
 

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This: "my dense newbie-ness" is not true at all. This stuff can be confusing and overwhelming when you haven't done it before. When you are done you will think it was no big deal. Well, it may be somewhat of a big deal depending on which way you have to go. It doesn't matter which hitch you use the bed rail clearance is the bed rail clearance.  You have a good sliding hitch which you may want to keep so the FW doesn't hit the cab. My FW for example is an old style flat front, 102"  wide on a short bed truck. I have a different model of superglide but it keeps from hitting no matter what crazy place I get myself into. The worst I can say about superglide is that when it is right at the transition point of the roller moving into the left or right track I will feel it.

When looking at the first pic of your FW it does seem to be somewhat swept under at the bottom front so maybe it's not too bad as far as hitting the cab. Your hitch is probably sliding 14 inches or so. Is that necessary? You dont know until you try turning it far. It's normal to use a slider with a short bed if the FW doesnt have a good sweep/rounded corers. Move it around and see how close it comes to the cab and then decide if you want to change hitches. Everyone has their own preference but why change a high dollar hitch if it isn't going to do anything different than what you have. Again, the rail clearance is the rail clearance. I have even used my superslide as a non sliding hitch to pull another FW for someone. I fabricated brackets to make the hitch stationary and didn't use a capture plate.

I'm just guessing that you are faced with an axle flip. A couple pic angles dont seem terrible but the first pic does. At that point you will hurt your ramp angle when dealing with your cycles. I would think that you could use the landing gear to tilt the FW back and lessen the angle when loading and unloading. Even if the FW is still hitched up you may be able to raise it enough to load yet not start lifting the back of the truck. You could simulate that when the FW is on 2x and get an idea of what is going on. You wouldnt be tilted a long time but t's all about being level for your propane frig and some are more or less concerned with that. When I was running a propane frig I was always concerned with it but you could always shut it off if you like. 
 
Your truck bed pic wouldn't open at first. I see it now. The four pins are in the puck system. The center pin is for a goose neck and I've never dealt with that. My truck didn't have the oem pucks, I installed them and purchased the picture frame along with superglide. There are four handles that are hard to see that swing 90 degrees to disengage the pins from the keyhole pucks.

 

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I just measured my hitch. From the top of the truck side rails down to the top of the hitch, I get about 2 1/2". Also, I can lower my hitch another 3 1/2" if I needed to but I don't.
 
Cybex

That looks like a standard factory install.  To use the Andersen, simply remove the pucks, install the ball, then the Andersen attaches to the ball.

With the hitch you have and the Andersen, and other FW hitches, the movement of the FW with respect to the truck (lean side to side, front to back moves, etc) all happen at the pin box.  With the gooseneck adapter, this movement occurs 2 feet lower at the gooseneck ball.  If you hit the brakes, with a FW hitch, this force is absorbed right at the pin.  With a gooseneck, there is a 2 foot cheater bar attached to the gooseneck ball and applying torque to the frame as part of this action.  Gooseneck trailers are built to handle this torque.  Most have triangle supports welded to the trailer and hitch.  FW are generally not built to handle this stress, and adaptors do not have the same support for the FW.  Most manufacturers will void the frame warranty if a gooseneck adaptor is used.
 
I just went out I'm the garage and measured...the top of the ball on the Andersen in its lowest setting is at 16-1/2". This would put the 5th wheel plate at about 17-1/2". Just wanted to post this for comparison in case you consider the Andersen.
 
OK, so it is verified by the hitch place that I am 7 inches from level.  So they are going to do the axel flip that they are saying will give me 5-6 inches.  After that we will see where I am at.  I can get the rest with either changing the fifth wheel hitch brackets (1 3/4 inches lower at the hitch according to Pullrite) or go to bigger tires and/or wheels.  Changing the rails are not an option unless I want to eat $200 restocking fee, and then go buy other rails that will only give me about 3/4" lower.  They said it has enough bed clearance to change the fifth wheel hitch brackets, and brackets are $94 all in on Jet.com

Any additional thoughts my friends?
 
Good to hear that, now about those stabilizers and those steps.....:) Welcome to the club.
 
Since I traded trucks I have encounter the similar problem.  The newer truck is approximately 2 1/2" taller than the old one.  1 1/2" at the axle center point and the bed sides are 1" taller.  Already raise the B&W 5th wheel hitch (I give very low points on this hitch) an inch and dropped the pin box on the trailer to get 5 to 6 inches of clearance.  So now the 5'r is running up hill with about 3 1/2 to 4"  difference front to back. 

I have a Lippert frame and Lippert axles located below the springs.  Lipper has a "bolt on"(tongue in cheek because, possibly, some drilling may be needed) kit called "Correct Track" which will raise the rig about 2".  Cost for tandem axle is around $375.00.  It is suggest that new bushings be installed at this time so add $75.00 more.    Because of where my springs are fastened in the hangers I should be able to lift my 5'r about 2 3/4" to 3 "  I have yet to find a source for  spacer blocks for between the springs and axle w/ the u-bolt kit. 

Also look at and ball parked price 16" rims and 235/85R16 which would raise the rig  about 1 1/2" over the current 235/85R15.  Approximately $250.00 a tire and wheel. Even if I could sell the old tire & wheels for $100 each these meats would look stupid and out of place being that they would be only 2" apart at mid axle.  On top of that, if I wanted new bolts/bushings for the suspension that would run a $150.00 or so.   

I'm still have to check a couple of things out with Lippert but I am pretty sure I'm going with their kit.  I'll keep you informed, and if I remember "how to" some pictures also. 


Wi1dBi11
 
Hi all,

I had a heck of a time finding my way back to this post string.  Anyway, I have done the axel flip and bought new brackets for the fifth wheel hitch lower it about 2 inches.  The picture is before the installation of the brackets and now I'm pretty close to level.  I currently have ST225/75R15 tires that need to be replaced.  They have dry rot damage and was wondering if there is a larger tire that would fit on the 15" rims?  I'm only about 1-2 inches from being completely level.  Also, what brand is best at a reasonable cost?
 

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To stay with 15" rims,  larger tires come from wider tires i.e. ST225 --> 235 or 245 tires  and / or from higher profile  i.e. /75R15 -->/80R15.  Make sure there is room for either, including suspension travel.  Make sure ANY tire has the load rating to handle your camper. 

The 225/75 15 tire is 28.87 inch diameter.  A 245/75 15 is  29.46 inch diameter.  A 245/80 15 is 30.43 inch diameter. 

I can calculate 16" diameters if you choose to go that way.  Remember only ? of that diameter is below the axles and will raise the camper only ? of the increase.
 
Thank you Grashley, that is great info going forward.  You all are an awesome group or folks! 

We are headed out this coming week for the maiden voyage, so I had new tires put on today.  I went with the 225/75R15's, but the tire shop recommended 10 ply (instead of 8) since I am loading 2-3 touring motorcycles in it, and with a L speed rating (75 mph) since the highways out have a 75 mph speed limit.  Not that I will run at that speed, but I figure at max pressure they will not run as hot with them being over rated. 

I was trying to get completely level, but I think I am close enough to not have issues with running the propane frig while traveling.  Guess I will find out.  If not I will look at moving to the 245/80R15 you mentioned and/or go to 16" rims.  Where I am now the stabilizers are good and the steps aren't too high, so hopefully all will be good.

Another question, if you look at the picture I posted earlier the spot light mounts and the door window framing is yellowing.  Question is, is there anything I can do to get them white again other than replacing or painting the plastic?  Was hoping there was a treatment or chemical that would do it?  It sticks out to me since everything else looks fine.
 
CybexRV,
Don't know the answer to your question but thought I should suggest that you start a new post so that you get a much larger audience. I think you'll have a better chance of getting your question answered.
Bob
 
Don't know of any product that will change the yellowing plastic, likely due to UV rays over time.  I would paint them with paint special designed for plastic.

Also as far as running the fridge while moving.  Run the fridge at home to cool everything down before you leave, down to about 34 degrees.  I'll freeze a dozen or more 16.9 oz.water bottles, before hand, and place them through out the fridge and freezer.  When they thaw you can drink the water.  That will keep the fridge cold for 6 to 8 hour of travel.  Don't open the fridge if not necessary.  Use a small cooler for drinks and food and snacks while traveling. Think about it. a refrigerator is insulated as good if not better then a cooler.  Running the fridge while it's not level creates unnecessary heat in the cooling unit. 

Wi1dBi11
 
Those 10 ply will serve you well.  As you said, keep the speed down.  You have a safety factor based on lower than rated speed AND less than max load.  Wise move!

As for the yellow, UV will discolor the plastic over time.  The only fix is to paint or replace.
 

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