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Author Topic: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"  (Read 506 times)

KandT

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Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« on: September 25, 2017, 03:52:00 AM »
Ok, we took money down and are scheduled to do the paperwork this week.  You would think I would take a breath here but I am already excited to get in a "new to me" class A.

Here's what I know I need with the coach: 
    -  2-3 slides ideally one for the bedroom and opposing front slides
    -  2 beds for quickly growing 6 and 11 year old kids that set up and tear down fast
    -  Initially we thought bunk house but my 11 year old doesn't have much time until his legs hit the end of them - at least on the two we looked at
    -  a step up from the base models.  No I don't need or want the "Mercedes" but as an example a low point drain for winterization would be nice.  Furniture that is upgraded from the base where the fabric shows wear quickly, enough CCC for our simple needs.
     - more push than the class "C" V10.  I really like the FRED's but why the Tiffan Allegro Bay didn't catch on is a mystery to me. 
      -  not silent but quiet would be nice.
      - leveling jacks!

Opinions?? I have 45k-65k to spend.  Is an older pusher a money pit?  Looks like I would be at 2005 at the newest.  Why didn't FREDs catch on?  Seems like a perfect fit for me.  I have heard the V10 on the A are really loud but then again they took over the market so Maybe I am getting bad info.


   
   
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 03:54:32 AM by KandT »
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

SeilerBird

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 04:41:43 AM »
Ok, we took money down and are scheduled to do the paperwork this week.  You would think I would take a breath here but I am already excited to get in a "new to me" class A.

Here's what I know I need with the coach: 
    -  2-3 slides ideally one for the bedroom and opposing front slides
    -  2 beds for quickly growing 6 and 11 year old kids that set up and tear down fast
    -  Initially we thought bunk house but my 11 year old doesn't have much time until his legs hit the end of them - at least on the two we looked at
    -  a step up from the base models.  No I don't need or want the "Mercedes" but as an example a low point drain for winterization would be nice.  Furniture that is upgraded from the base where the fabric shows wear quickly, enough CCC for our simple needs.
     - more push than the class "C" V10.  I really like the FRED's but why the Tiffan Allegro Bay didn't catch on is a mystery to me. 
      -  not silent but quiet would be nice.
      - leveling jacks!
No one can really recommend an RV that fits your criteria. If we did then the odds of you actually finding one that is close to you, in great shape, reasonably priced and read to roll is very very slim. I suggest shopping the local market and find one close to what you want and then asking us for opinions on that particular one..

Quote
  Is an older pusher a money pit?
All RVs are money pits, period. There is no way around it. 
Quote
Why didn't FREDs catch on?
Rear engines are so much quieter and have more space, since the space under the bed is wasted. 
Quote
I have heard the V10 on the A are really loud but then again they took over the market so Maybe I am getting bad info.
They are much louder than diesels but just as noisy as any other gasser.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 06:52:05 AM by SeilerBird »
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Charlie 5320

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 06:45:15 AM »
Well I really like my Dolphin, wouldn't be large enough for you, but they do come larger. Fit and finish is really good and seems to be a well made coach. My coach is much quieter than any gas coach I've had before, but you can still hear the fan come on, but I don't call it a roar, like some people. I've  never drove it in the mountains but I've had it in the hills in Mo. and Ark. and it did just fine. Has plenty of power, easy to winterize. With your budget you can find one of the later model, real low mileage coachs. The 35 and 36 ft coachs have a larger sofa, that makes a bed. Believe they came with either the V10 or the 8.1, mine has the 8.1 and the Allison trans. Some of them had full body paint, mine does not, and it had not been waxed too often in it's life. I've got it looking good now, and hoping I can keep it this way. They do have a molded fiberglass roof. 

https://www.rvtrader.com/dealers/Eastside-RV-Liquidators-3016546/listing/2005-National-DolphinLX6355-122106753
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 08:33:14 AM by Charlie 5320 »
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 07:46:29 AM »
Front engines seem louder than rear engines, simply because the engine is right under the cab area. Stand behind a pusher and you will know that right away! Front diesels are no noisier than front gas engines, though. Maybe even a bit less at times, since the rpms stay lower.

Why didn't front diesel catch on? Hard to say, but I'll offer two reasons:
1. Many American buyers still are reticent about diesels, probably a lack of familiarity and a bad taste from the GM diesel fiascos back in the 70's gas crisis. They were performance dogs and unreliable, not to mention smelly.  Diesel was not so widely available at local gas stations back then either.  Hard to get many buyers to give a modern turbo-diesel a chance. Now that more people have, or at least know other s who have, diesels engine in their pick-ups and realize they work well, I think a front diesel coach would get a better reception, but RV makers aren't much on giving an idea a second chance. The Super-C coaches built on diesel truck platforms haven't been wildly successful either.

2. Cost. The FRED front diesel cost more than the equivalent gas chassis and didn't seem to offer any immediate advantages. And to be fair, it really doesn't have a lot of advantage. The only real pluses were a larger 26, 000 lb GVWR, a bit better acceleration from a stop, and probably an extra 100k miles of engine life. The extra engine life isn't a significant factor for low mileage motorhome use.
 
I don't think the V10's are loud and I've not seen that complaint here over the years. I've actually seen more noise complaints about the GM V8 in the Workhorse Wxx chassis, which has a pair of large electric cooling fans that cut in when needed (under heavy load). These have often been described as being like a jet engine taking off. Compared to a car engine the V10 may seem loud, but that is probably because the engine is working harder on grades and during acceleration. And again, you are sitting right on it.

I think you can get a nice older pusher for $60k, but it won't be an '05. The complex diesel pusher chassis costs more to maintain than a gas chassis, but it's no more a money pit than any other coach, newer or older. I would not set an arbitrary age limit - condition and capability are the keys, not year and mileage.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 07:53:35 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Mile High

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 11:29:06 AM »
You will have fun!  $65K puts you anywhere from a 1980 Prevost to a factory new 2017 Thor ACE, and as sideways as a GMC Palm Beach or a 2004 Safari Zanzabar!  Just select a price range on rvtrader and enjoy the show.
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

KandT

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 11:39:14 AM »
Thanks for the replies.  I think the must haves are a washers and dryer, solid roof ideally fiberglass and lots of CCC.
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

Bobtop46

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    • Work Camper
Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 01:58:57 PM »
http://www.rvt.com/Coachmen-Aurora-36FWS-2008-Creswell-OR-ID7572185-UX95325

there are a couple others available in other parts of the country.  just google search 36fws and look for the coachman links.
2007 Coachman Aurora 36FWS
2006 Mini Cooper S

RedandSilver

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 04:56:39 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  I think the must haves are a washers and dryer, solid roof ideally fiberglass and lots of CCC.

My 02 has a washer and dryer Combo and a fiberglass roof and has a CCC of 41,000.
It was in good condition and cost less than what you have to spend.
 
Not saying it's the right unit for you - just that there are units out there that have your Must Haves.

I assume you know this - but if you buy a 2006 or older unit you won't have to deal with DEF like 2007 and newer units do.
2002 Rexhall Rose Air  Cummins 8.3  350hp

Ernie n Tara

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2017, 09:17:56 AM »
Thats a 2010 or older chassis to avoid DEF.

Ernie
Ernie 'n Tara

2011 Winn Journey 34y
2012 Jeep Rubicon - Dozer (orange - kinda)
2006 Jeep Wrangler

KandT

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2017, 10:02:00 AM »
Is the DEF a real issue?  Doesn't seem like too much money and I think it lasts pretty long?? 
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

UTTransplant

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  • Salt Lake City area
Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2017, 10:07:34 AM »
We don't have a motorhomes with DEF, but we have a pickup that uses it. It really isn't that expensive, and the amount you use is proportional to how hard the engine is working. Towing in mountains we use more than towing on the flats. Most truck stops sell it at the diesel pumps so it is easy to get. There have been issues with DEF sensors, but those should be worked out in a used coach. Personally, I would not have a diesel that didn't use DEF. I live in an area with lots of air pollution, and I could never justify the increased pollution that a non-DEF diesel provides. That may or may not be a consideration for you, but it is a deal breaker for me.
Pam and Kevin plus Minou and Lily (the cats) plus Lexi (the grand-dog)
2014 Outdoors RV Timber Ridge 240RKS
2015 Ram 2500 Diesel
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Larry N.

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2017, 10:24:55 AM »
Is the DEF a real issue?  Doesn't seem like too much money and I think it lasts pretty long??

It's another liquid to add to another tank, but you don't have to fill it every time you fuel up, either. But the benefits appear to be better fuel mileage and less of the "black smoke" syndrome. But there was, for me, a tax benefit. Because it's an energy efficient, low pollution coach, there was no state sales tax. And either the city or county (I forget which) also waived the sales tax on my coach purchase.

So it's not the problem I feared it might be.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

garyb1st

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2017, 12:34:07 PM »
We have a Vortec engine in our Pace Arrow.  Our previous motorhome was a 1999 Ford V10.  The Vortec is much louder.  When the fan kicks in on a grade, it's hard to have a conversation.  Our 1999 was on an 18,000 lb. Ford F53 chassis.  The Pace Arrow is on a 22,000 lb. Workhorse chassis.  The heavier chassis provides a much nicer ride.  We looked at a FRED Allegro Bay.  Turned on the engine and it was louder than either our old Ford or the newer Chevy engine.  IIRC, the difference between GCWR and GVWR is not significant, maybe 2,000 lbs, and if your toad is heavy, you need to look at that.   
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler

KandT

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 11:24:46 PM »
We have a Vortec engine in our Pace Arrow.  Our previous motorhome was a 1999 Ford V10.  The Vortec is much louder.  When the fan kicks in on a grade, it's hard to have a conversation.  Our 1999 was on an 18,000 lb. Ford F53 chassis.  The Pace Arrow is on a 22,000 lb. Workhorse chassis.  The heavier chassis provides a much nicer ride.  We looked at a FRED Allegro Bay.  Turned on the engine and it was louder than either our old Ford or the newer Chevy engine.  IIRC, the difference between GCWR and GVWR is not significant, maybe 2,000 lbs, and if your toad is heavy, you need to look at that.

I dont doubt the engine is louder at idle but did you take it for a drive?  The diesels seem to develop their rated torque under 2000 RPM's and I think Cat's might be around 1500.  A lot lower than my v10 was when it was at 4500RPM's. 

I don't know because I can't find one close enough to check out.  I hate to fly half way across the country to find out I should turn around and buy the gas unit!! :-\
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

SeilerBird

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2017, 05:23:52 AM »
I dont doubt the engine is louder at idle but did you take it for a drive?  The diesels seem to develop their rated torque under 2000 RPM's and I think Cat's might be around 1500.  A lot lower than my v10 was when it was at 4500RPM's. 

I don't know because I can't find one close enough to check out.  I hate to fly half way across the country to find out I should turn around and buy the gas unit!! :-\
You are making a mountain out of a molehill. You only spend 5% of your time driving an RV and only a very small percentage of that time is spent going uphill listening to a loud motor. It just isn't that big a deal and certainly nothing to base the purchase of an RV on.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
Life list of birds:
https://goo.gl/photos/xuP9zPD2KP2swN1g8
2016 photos:
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KandT

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2017, 05:32:36 AM »
You are making a mountain out of a molehill. You only spend 5% of your time driving an RV and only a very small percentage of that time is spent going uphill listening to a loud motor. It just isn't that big a deal and certainly nothing to base the purchase of an RV on.
I love ya Seiler and your direct style but it is my mole hill to make into a mountain!😜😜
Also, since my wife and I have full time jobs we don't spend only 5% of our RV time driving.  Our two week Midwest tour was three days out listening to a V10 rev it up on the hills and three days back doing the same thing. Being out there made the trip worth it though!
2005 Winnebago Vectra
American Car Dolly
2009 Accord Toad
It's not a problem.  It's a project!

SeilerBird

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  • Everything I state is my opinion.
Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2017, 05:37:43 AM »
I love ya Seiler and your direct style but it is my mole hill to make into a mountain!😜😜
Also, since my wife and I have full time jobs we don't spend only 5% of our RV time driving.  Our two week Midwest tour was three days out listening to a V10 rev it up on the hills and three days back doing the same thing. Being out there made the trip worth it though!
Well then you have answered your own question, you need a diesel.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
Life list of birds:
https://goo.gl/photos/xuP9zPD2KP2swN1g8
2016 photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/aXQPbnVpgzNvs4Jq8
My portfolio:
https://goo.gl/photos/Cx4SaYhGfYFShSty7

garyb1st

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2017, 09:52:51 AM »
I dont doubt the engine is louder at idle but did you take it for a drive?  The diesels seem to develop their rated torque under 2000 RPM's and I think Cat's might be around 1500.  A lot lower than my v10 was when it was at 4500RPM's. 

I don't know because I can't find one close enough to check out.  I hate to fly half way across the country to find out I should turn around and buy the gas unit!! :-\

We didn't test drive the Allegro Diesel.  It was so loud when the owner started the engine, I had no desire to purchase it.  Don't know if it would get quieter after a while.  But it's a smaller diesel and I have to believe they're noisier than the big block diesels.  Our old Ford F250 diesel for example would become quite loud when climbing a grade.  It was a 6 liter engine that produced about 550 lbs of torque.  When the fan turned on it was even worse. 
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler

Charlie 5320

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2017, 10:39:25 AM »
On my coach I hear the whine of the Allison trans over the engine until it gets in 4th or 5th gear. My coach must have some sound deading  material because it isn't near as loud as my old 7.4 engines. I've never had an instance where I couldn't hear the person sitting in the passenger seat. My fan rarely runs over a couple minutes at a time on a long grade, but I haven't had it in the mountains yet either. 
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

Mile High

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2017, 11:03:10 AM »
You are making a mountain out of a molehill. You only spend 5% of your time driving an RV and only a very small percentage of that time is spent going uphill listening to a loud motor. It just isn't that big a deal and certainly nothing to base the purchase of an RV on.
Not for everybody - seriously as vacationers we probably spend 50-50 between driving and camping if we are cruising across country.  However I agree that the noise is not a deal breaker.  It has taken more time for us to get used to driving with no engine noise than it did for us to get used to that screaming 454 on our old class A.  We didn't think anything different.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 11:06:04 AM by Mile High »
Brad and Dory
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E (new to us 2016)
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
FMCA 457993 / WIT W170238
Denver, CO

malexander

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Re: Just Sold Class C - taking advice on an "A"
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2017, 08:28:10 PM »
I love my diesel pusher, it's quiet.
I think you should be able to find what you're looking for, for your budget.
Mine is an '07, I got it for 78K two years ago, it had 13,500 miles on it. I spent 6K on it when I got it home. I bought new tires, had all the engine, transmission, & generator fluids & filters changed, and front end aligned. I wanted to start out with a "known animal" lol.
Marshall Alexander
2007 Fleetwood Bounder 38N DP, 2008 GL 1800 Goldwing, 2007 VTX 1300, Cessna 150 & 172, Rans S19 Venterra

 

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