EPDM Coatings
rvupgradestore.com Composet Products Custom Yacht Interiors

Author Topic: ac power  (Read 1095 times)

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
ac power
« on: September 28, 2017, 09:41:24 AM »
We have 2001 Itasca Meridan and have no ac power from gen. or shore power. the inverter  works for plugins and app. Our repair man wants to put in a new inverter.

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 61019
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: ac power
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 10:48:12 AM »
Would need more info to offer meaningful advice. You have circuits that do not pass through the inverter at all, e.g. the air conditioners and the water heater (electric mode). Do those work? Is there any 120v power anywhere in the coach?

A lot of your 120vac power runs through the inverter, so the first thing to check is the power going into the inverter and also the inverters own circuit breaker.  There is typically a 30A breaker that feeds shore/genset power to the inverter/charger. That power gets "passed thru" the inverter to the output side so that the inverter doesn't have to do any inverting when external power is present. It's possible that automatic pass thru has failed, which probably enas a new inverter (repair parts for 15+ year old inverters are probably not available).
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 11:26:45 AM »
our only power comes from the inverter. plugins and microwave and tv

Old Blevins

  • ---
  • Posts: 502
Re: ac power
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 12:04:12 AM »
Since the inverter seems to be the only 120V source that's working, it seems odd that's what the repairman wants to replace. Are you sure he didn't say "converter"?
Jim
------------------------------------
2006 Silverado SRW 1-Ton 4WD Diesel
2006 Arctic Fox 29V
1985 Brawley 2-Horse Straight-Load Trailer

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 61019
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: ac power
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 08:42:24 AM »
Quote
Since the inverter seems to be the only 120V source that's working, it seems odd that's what the repairman wants to replace. Are you sure he didn't say "converter"?

I suspect they are one and the same unit on his Meridian. Hopefully msever will tell us the make & model of the unit they want to replace so we can be sure of that..
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 09:42:43 AM »
the inverter is Heart/Freedom

Alfa38User

  • ---
  • Posts: 5941
Re: ac power
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 10:06:51 AM »
I suggest you verify the ATS (Auto Transfer Switch) used with the generator. It may have failed or has burned contacts in the released position and that would prevent shore power coming through and even reaching the inverter own ATS.


This one?? This product is not longer available so a replacement equivalent will be required.
www.xantrex.com/documents/Discontinued.../Freedom_combie_Owner_manual.pdf
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 10:13:01 AM by Alfa38User »
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
Alfa Gold 38 (2000) 5ver (parked!)

"Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advise!!!"

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 61019
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: ac power
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 11:50:24 AM »
Quote
the inverter is Heart/Freedom
That is indeed a combiner inverter, converter, and charger.  If any portion of its function has failed, you may need to replace all of it. Components are available for new Freedoms, but if it is 2001 vintage I suspect parts are no longer available. Xantrex no longer provides parts & support for the older Heart products.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2017, 12:50:46 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the information. I guess we have to bite the bullet and replace the inverter

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 61019
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: ac power
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2017, 03:32:39 PM »
As I stated earlier, without more info as to exactly what doesn't work on shore power and under what circumstances, there is no way for us to guess whether your repair guy has made a correct diagnosis or not. Does nothing at all work when on shore power? No lighting, no tv, no a/c or fridge?
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Lou Schneider

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 7409
Re: ac power
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2017, 04:38:51 PM »
A combined inverter/charger has it's own internal transfer switch, it sends incoming AC power directly to the outlets while the inverter changes into a charger when outside AC power is present.

Does any 120 volt appliance NOT on the inverter work when the generator or shore power is available?  The air conditioner, the electric side of the hot water heater, etc?  If these work, the generator transfer switch is most likely OK and is sending power to the inverter like it should, and  the inverter's internal transfer switch is messing up and not sending that power through to the inverter outlets.

If nothing else works, it's likely the generator / shore power transfer switch is faulty.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 04:55:46 PM by Lou Schneider »

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 09:23:38 AM »
we have no 120v when plugged in and no 120v when generator is running

Alfa38User

  • ---
  • Posts: 5941
Re: ac power
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 09:40:31 AM »
As Lou has said, this sounds more like the ATS associated with the generator/shore power itself as both the outside power (in the switches released mode) and generator power (in the switches operated mode) go through it. This is, at least, the starting point for investigation as it is the one common point in this case.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 09:45:14 AM by Alfa38User »
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
Alfa Gold 38 (2000) 5ver (parked!)

"Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advise!!!"

Gary RV_Wizard

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 61019
  • RVer Emeritus
Re: ac power
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 10:32:59 AM »
Quote
we have no 120v when plugged in and no 120v when generator is running

Forgive me for harping on this, but how thoroughly have you (and the repair guy) checked for ac power throughout the coach?  I know you said "no 120v power", but it is absolutely critical to the diagnosis and people too often don't check all the possible 120v circuits. If the interior lighting works but there is no power to the air conditioners or the water heater in electric heat mode, then the inverter is probably NOT the problem and replacing it is a waste of money and time.
Gary
--------------
Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 01:39:20 PM »
Everything works that is powered by the battery. Nothing works that is powered by the generator or the electric cord. the inverter will run the plugins and microwave,tv

Kevin Means

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 3813
    • Tactical Flying
Re: ac power
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2017, 02:40:58 PM »
There are a couple of things that could prevent A/C power from getting into the coach, and we're trying to help you narrow it down.

Please answer this... When you're plugged into shore-power, or running your generator, are your house-batteries charging? If they are, that tells me that A/C power is getting past the automatic transfer switch (ATS). If your ATS isn't working (I'm just assuming you have one) A/C power from shore-power or the generator won't get into the coach, which would explain why you have no A/C power.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2017, 03:32:56 PM »
the batteries will charge only with the motorhome engine

Kevin Means

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 3813
    • Tactical Flying
Re: ac power
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2017, 04:14:12 PM »
If your house batteries aren't charging while on generator-power or shore-power, and no A/C appliances are working while on generator-power or shore-power, that tells me that A/C power isn't getting into the coach. Have you checked the "Main" circuit breaker? If you haven't, turn it off, then turn it back on - even if it looks like it's on. Circuit breakers can appear to be on, but actually be tripped.

The next thing I'd do is use a VOM to (carefully) test for power coming out of the transfer switch. That component is common to both the generator and shore-power, and it automatically switches between them depending on which one is being used. It gives priority to the generator if you're running your generator while hooked up to shore-power.

Do those things and get back to us.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2017, 08:46:07 AM »
Could the transfer switch on the alternator be bad even though the alternator will still run all appliances and plugins?

Alfa38User

  • ---
  • Posts: 5941
Re: ac power
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2017, 09:05:22 AM »
I suspect you mean the Inverter, not the alternator. I suspect not as is seems more like the 120V feed is not even reaching the inverter transfer switch's 120V  inputs. As mentioned in previous posts  multiple times, look at the ATS associated with the generator first. It is the first in line from the power pedestal and cord.
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
Alfa Gold 38 (2000) 5ver (parked!)

"Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advise!!!"

Kevin Means

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 3813
    • Tactical Flying
Re: ac power
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2017, 11:32:03 AM »
I agree with Alfa38User. At this point, things seem to be pointing to the automatic transfer switch (ATS) as the source of the problem, but I would like to know if you have reset the "Main" circuit breaker as suggested earlier. That may not be the cause of the problem, but I'd like to rule it out.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2017, 04:39:13 PM »
The repairman said he tested everything and we need a new invertor but the invertor works. So I am not sure that is our problem. Being it will cost us $1900 dollars I would like to be sure that is what we need.

Kevin Means

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 3813
    • Tactical Flying
Re: ac power
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2017, 11:41:53 AM »
The repairman may, or may not be right - I don't know. We're trying to help you troubleshoot to determine what the problem is, but we're getting very little feedback from you when we ask questions, and when we recommend things for you to check. I'd suggest that you read through the entire topic, check the things we've recommended and answer our specific questions. We're here to help.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2017, 12:39:55 PM »
We checked everything we could.Main breaker,surge protecter outlets and fuses. Then we took it to the rv repair place and they checked everything else  but when I asked them to check the ATS on the generator they said our generoter did not have one. Do diesel generators have a ATS(automatic transfer switch?

Lou Schneider

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 7409
Re: ac power
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2017, 02:05:52 PM »
99.9% of RVs with any kind of a generator have a shore power/generator ATS.  The only exception is if you have to manually plug the shore power cord into a generator powered outlet to get generator power into the house ... and the tech should know that.

Unless you have that rare exception, I'd go to another repair place and have them take a look at the problem before shelling out $1900 for a possibly unnecessary repair.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 02:11:46 PM by Lou Schneider »

AStravelers

  • ---
  • Posts: 693
  • Part time travelers, 4-8 months each year.
Re: ac power
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2017, 03:11:00 PM »
We checked everything we could.Main breaker,surge protecter outlets and fuses. Then we took it to the rv repair place and they checked everything else  but when I asked them to check the ATS on the generator they said our generoter did not have one. Do diesel generators have a ATS(automatic transfer switch?
The ATS is not ON the generator normally. It is probably in an electrical compartment somewhere. That may be where the confusion is.
Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Sightseer 29R
2009 Chevy Colorado 4X4

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

AStravelers

  • ---
  • Posts: 693
  • Part time travelers, 4-8 months each year.
Re: ac power
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2017, 03:15:00 PM »
we have no 120v when plugged in and no 120v when generator is running
PLEASE be more specific.  Does the air conditioner work or not, either on shore power or generator.  The air conditioner does not connect to or through the inverter. 
Al & Sharon
2006 Winnebago Sightseer 29R
2009 Chevy Colorado 4X4

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

msever

  • ---
  • Posts: 14
Re: ac power
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2017, 06:28:13 PM »
we have no power when generator is running or when plugged in,so the air conditioner does not work

Lou Schneider

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 7409
Re: ac power
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2017, 08:19:30 PM »
Not to beat a dead horse, but it sure sounds like you have a problem with the generator/shore power transfer switch, NOT the inverter.

If your repairman doesn't recognize this, and still wants to sell you a $1900 inverter, I'd take your RV to another shop and get a second opinion.

Kevin Means

  • Forum Staff
  • ---
  • *
  • Posts: 3813
    • Tactical Flying
Re: ac power
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2017, 09:14:58 PM »
Msever, thanks for those answers. They were helpful. They further confirm what I believe is the problem - your automatic transfer switch (ATS)

An ATS is usually a stand-alone device, and the ones I've seen were installed near where the shore-power cord goes into the RV, but who knows. The ATS detects if A/C power is coming from either the generator or shore-power, and automatically switches to the source that's providing power.

When you asked the tech if the problem could be with the generator's ATS, his answer was technically correct, although somewhat incomplete - your generator doesn't have an ATS - the motorhome has one. I can't help but wonder if his answer was intentionally worded that way to confuse you, but you'll have to determine that.

If A/C power from the generator or shore-power can't get past the ATS, because it has malfunctioned, you would see exactly the symptoms you're having. I am no expert on your inverter, but from what you've said, it seems to be working. It's inverting 12 volts D/C to 120 volts A/C and powering your outlets and appropriate appliances. Maybe the tech has determined that another of its functions isn't operating properly, but I don't know what that would be.

If you don't feel comfortable locating and testing your ATS, my recommendation would be to take the RV to another tech and get another opinion. Or, call a mobile RV tech and have them come to you. If they've been in business for awhile, they should be able to resolve this fairly quickly. An new ATS is a lot cheaper than a new inverter.

Keep us posted.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
RVI Brake 2, Minder TM-66 TPMS, 970 watts of solar
(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

 

Hosted by Over The Network