Undecided: spend on a newer RV or go cheap?

As a Trek owner, I agree lack of a dedicated bedroom is not for everyone, though it works for us, even in our sticks and bricks house my wife and I almost always go to bed at the same time, and we rarely use the bedroom TV.  I watch shows or browse the internet on my notebook computer, and she watches shows, or listens to audio books with headphones,or does puzzles, online games, or combinations of these on her tablet.  It is to the point now where I don't think our bedroom TV in our S&B house has been turned on this year.  The real big issue with the eltro-magic bed in Trek is getting to the bathroom at night, which requires the person in forward sleeping position to crawl over or under to get out of bed.  For us the solution is to keep the bed raised a bit from the fully lowered position leaving just enough room to sit up in bed without hitting our heads on the ceiling, this leaves a comparable amount of space between the floor and the bottom of the bed, and we use a small folding 2 step, step stool to get in and our of bed at the aft side.    I sleep to the front and am 6 ft tall, so to get out in the middle of the night I step down onto the engine doghouse cover, and sort of crawl under using the arm of the sofa and passenger seat for leverage.  I am on the young side for the RV crowd being not yet 50, though I am also not all that flexible for my age as I fell and broke my back in 2010, so the acrobatics of crawling under the bed in the middle of the night makes me feel a bit like being in one of those cat burglar movies jumping over laser beams.

Larry N. said:

And there's typically a lot of basement storage in a class A, with little or no basement in most class C rigs.

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That's highly interesting. Especially with kiteboarding equipment: 2 boards, 3 kites, harness etc. it's not that heavy but it's bulky.

Isaac-1 said:

Another thing you need to look at is cargo capacity, most class B's are built on a chassis with only an 11,000 pound GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating), Class C's typically have GVWR 12,500 (E350 chassis)- 14,500 (E450 chassis) vs Class A's (my small 16 year old 28 ft class A is on a 17,000 GVWR chassis, and the slightly newer version of the same coach was offered on an 18,000 GVWR, and even had a 20,000 GVWR as an option).  As a result with empty water tanks mine has a cargo carrying capacity of nearly 3,000 pounds (or a little over 2,000 with full 80 gallons of fresh water on board), compare this to many sprinter based class B's like the 24 Leisure Travel vans Unity model you mention, which depending on floor plan, options etc. seems to have  cargo carrying capacity of around 700-800 pounds.  Once you consider in the weight of pots, pans, clothes, bedding, BBQ grill, camp chairs, food, (electric bikes) .... you will see that you you really can't carry much stuff in one of these sprinter based class B's.

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That does not seem like a lot indeed. You have me second guessing our class B or C project big time.

ArdraF said:

Towing a car doesn't make that much difference in mileage as long as it's a reasonable size relative to the vehicle doing the towing.  It might add a half-mile per gallon. And having a four-wheel-drive vehicle is a lot more fun than a sedan because you can go to some fun places you wouldn't dream of going in a sedan.  RVing and four-wheeling are made for each other.

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Since we'll be on a budget, we'll probably buy a used car as a toad. 4 WD that can be used as toads are a lot more expensive than a Geo Metro. Could you give me an example of some place that you know that we really should go visit but would not be able to go if we had only a 2 WD? Trying to see if there's something interesting to us in the whole 4WD idea.

Sure...here in Colorado a lot of the really beautiful areas are accessible only with a 4wd vehicle. Sure, you can go to the "touristy" places with the paved roads, etc., BUT if you really want to see Colorado, go offroad. There are hundreds and hundreds of miles of trails, old mines, ghost towns, mountain lakes, and a lot more. In a large percentage, 2wd is totally out of the question. Another place would be Moab, UT. There are places you can go to ina regular car, but again, if you want to really see Moab, you need 4wd.

I will say that in a lot of the places you can visit, whether Colorado, Utah or another area, you may not need to use your 4wd, but you will need the extra ground clearance, stronger tires and stronger suspension, frame, etc.

Note to that not all "4wd" vehicles are really four wheel drive. True 4wd vehicles are built differently then the 4WD/AWD Soccer Mom, grocery getting minivans.

Disclaimer: my wife and I, while we have three 4WD/AWD vehicles, do not use them for offroading. Our vehicles of choice for that venture are our 2 Polaris ATVs.

Also, check out the 4 wheel drive area that is listed further down in this website. You can also find some good videos online of some of the places you can see with a 4wd vehicle. DON'T be scared off by some of the trails and rock crawling, not all of the trails are like that. A lot of places can be accessed easily, but a 4wd vehicle is highly recommended.

Could you give me an example of some place that you know that we really should go visit but would not be able to go if we had only a 2 WD? Trying to see if there's something interesting to us in the whole 4WD idea.

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What do you like to do?  There are scenic places that are accessible primarily by 4WD vehicles, but literally millions sight-see every year without going to them. If out of the way places are your thing, then 4WD or AWD is a definite plus, but I don't think you will be shedding tears if you don't have one.  We've had both 4WD and 2WD toads and enjoyed both.  We've also been to places where a typical 4WD car or SUV was not sufficient for the trail - a more serious off-road vehicle was needed if we really wanted to see the back country. It all depends on what you want to do...

Bobetpine said:

Since we'll be on a budget, we'll probably buy a used car as a toad. 4 WD that can be used as toads are a lot more expensive than a Geo Metro. Could you give me an example of some place that you know that we really should go visit but would not be able to go if we had only a 2 WD? Trying to see if there's something interesting to us in the whole 4WD idea.

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If the Geo Metro has a standard transmission, you can put the transmission in neutral and tow it.  If automatic you probably need to buy a tow dolly to put the front wheels on:  https://cartowdolly.com/  Do a internet search for "auto tow dolly" for more choices.  There are used tow dollies for sale sometimes.

As for needing 4x4 rather than the Geo Metro.  A small SUV with 4x4 has more ground clearance to get over rocks and bumps.  You may never need to use the 4x4, it is just nice to have the ground clearance. 

The Geo Metro will be fine on gravel and dirt roads as long as you take your time and don't go into really rough parts of the road.  When the road gets to rough, just stop and turn around and go back the way you came.  Also don't go on dirt roads if rain is expected or the road is wet.  Many times dirt gets very slippery.

Here is a blog entry of a guy who tows a Toyota Prius and takes it on gravel and dirt roads.  He just goes as far as he feels comfortable and turns around.  http://ramcquade.com/?p=8430

The trip he took, in the link above, is on a gravel road publicized in many blogs and other informational sources as "never, never take a small car, you must have a 4x4 high clearance".  BTW we also drove our small pick up on this road in August 2016 and agree totally with his assessment of the road that there is no reason to not take a 2 wheel drive car on this road. 

Here is a link to our blog entry of a day trip on the same road in the link above:  http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/2016/12/mccarthy-kennecott-mine-ruins-and.html

I was camped on the shore of Lake Powell last night.  While exploring the coastline in my toad I came across a patch of sand on my way back to the campsite that required shifting into 4wd to get through.  Sure was glad to have it available!

I am sorry.  I need to make a correction.  Why I said we had a Geo Metro is beyond me - as in where did that come from??  :-[  We had a Geo TRACKER and it was 4WD with a transfer case.  We got it when we had the 30-foot Lazy Daze and it was a great tow car.  It also was great fun off road.  We got it because we wanted to be able to join our friends on some of the trails around Moab.  Getting a 4WD widens your "fun factor" horizons.  We've never done what can be called "serious" four-wheeling but there are numerous dirt roads unsuitable for regular sedans and RVs for that matter.  One time we used it to visit Chaco Canyon after heavy rains.  At one place in the road we joined a few other cars sliding into the ditch.  The others had to be pulled out but we just shifted to 4WD and backed out.  When it's dry the road is decent enough for any car but not when it rains and gets slick.

ArdraF

Gary RV_Wizard said:

What do you like to do?  There are scenic places that are accessible primarily by 4WD vehicles, but literally millions sight-see every year without going to them. If out of the way places are your thing, then 4WD or AWD is a definite plus, but I don't think you will be shedding tears if you don't have one.  We've had both 4WD and 2WD toads and enjoyed both.  We've also been to places where a typical 4WD car or SUV was not sufficient for the trail - a more serious off-road vehicle was needed if we really wanted to see the back country. It all depends on what you want to do...

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We like it when it's really quiet (and this brings up the question of security). We don't do trails for the pleasure of driving in the mud, that's not our thing at all.

For example, we loved camping in our Westfalia in Anza Borrego desert (see attached pic). We found a trail that looked ok for our West and drove about 5 minutes away from the main road. We slept there in complete silence, which we absolutely loved. This is the kind of things we would love to do again. But then I guess i'll have to search topics about boondocking and safety especially for 2 women...

For example, we loved camping in our Westfalia in Anza Borrego desert (see attached pic). We found a trail that looked ok for our West and drove about 5 minutes away from the main road. We slept there in complete silence, which we absolutely loved. This is the kind of things we would love to do again.

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Maybe you want a 4WD RV, not a 4WD towed car.   

That said, we've had 35+ foot motorhomes down many an "unimproved" road. I don't recommend it unless you have aneye for terrain and some knowledge of the ground clearance of your vehicle, but we've been to quite a few isolated sites, including in Canada and Alaska.

Bobetpine said:

We like it when it's really quiet (and this brings up the question of security). We don't do trails for the pleasure of driving in the mud, that's not our thing at all.

For example, we loved camping in our Westfalia in Anza Borrego desert (see attached pic). We found a trail that looked ok for our West and drove about 5 minutes away from the main road. We slept there in complete silence, which we absolutely loved. This is the kind of things we would love to do again. But then I guess i'll have to search topics about boondocking and safety especially for 2 women...

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About Security:

My wife and I boondock a lot.  We frequently stay in remote places with no one around, as well as road side rest areas and Walmarts sometimes.  While we are not two women, if we feel uncomfortable in a place we don't stay, we move on. 

As far a security there are many single women who boondock and feel safe and comfortable doing it.

Below are links to blogs from women (there are lots more out there) each of whom boondock or have boondocked by themselves at times.  Read back though their blog archives for details on their travel styles.

This lady boondocked through Nova Scotia and Newfoundland through the summer. She also does a lot of boondocking in the west.  Within the last two years she took a solo trip down Baja California utilizing the Mexican buses and staying in hotels in the towns and cities.  http://taketothehighway.com/

This lady no longer travels in an RV, but go back through her blog archives for details:  https://winnieviews.blogspot.com/

This lady boondocks or dry camps in remote campgrounds almost all the time:  http://rvsueandcrew.net/

Here is an article about solo women RV'ers with links to more info:  http://wheelingit.us/2014/09/26/rving-travelling-as-a-single-lady/

Gary RV_Wizard said:

Maybe you want a 4WD RV, not a 4WD towed car.   

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Yeah you're probably right, something as the Winnebago Revel.
But we are ALSO princesses which means we need lots of cargo space!

AStravelers said:

About Security:

Below are links to blogs from women (there are lots more out there) each of whom boondock or have boondocked by themselves at times.

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Thanks for the links!

Here are a couple of photos from our summer in Alaska (some years back) that may encourage you. That's a 36 ft gas Class A and a 38 ft diesel pusher you see, each having made it down dirt tracks to camp beside hidden lakes.

Gary RV_Wizard said:

Here are a couple of photos from our summer in Alaska (some years back) that may encourage you. That's a 36 ft gas Class A and a 38 ft diesel pusher you see, each having made it down dirt tracks to camp beside hidden lakes.

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Glad to see that boondocking lakeside is feasible even with a 30F rig.

Is that pretty much the case in every state? (lake, ocean, whatever, as long as there is water we are happy).

Is that pretty much the case in every state? (lake, ocean, whatever, as long as there is water we are happy).

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No, the notion of free camping at secluded lakesides is largely a myth perpetuated by the RVIA. You have to seek out really rustic areas, and most of them in the eastern and central US will be on private land. Western US has more public land, but even then camping is often restricted. Too many abuses by ill-mannered people have led to curtailed access and designated camping areas (though the site may be "unimproved").

That said, there are places you can go and I'm sure folks here can suggest some if you ask about specific areas.

I agree with Gary finding those places can be difficult, attached is a couple of photos of my Safari Trek 28 ft class A beside a bayou in north eastern Louisiana about 30 miles from Natchez, Mississippi (Duck Dynasty part of the state, not Swamp people part), to get to this spot required driving about, 3/4 mile down a paved local road dodging lots of overhanging limbs,  then 1/4 mile down a dirt trail on top of a flood control levy and then maybe 1/8th of a mile on a dirt path down the edge of a cotton field, there was not another person around for about 1/3 mile.  This particular spot was also the site of a civil war battle of sorts, as a Union ironclad gunboat anchored perhaps in the very patch of water seen here to exchange canon fire with the confederate fort on the bluff overlooking the Ouachita river about a mile away, over the years a number cannon balls from that battle have been discovered in the cotton field while plowing, as the union gun boat picked this point to be just out of range of the confederate guns.  Oh and yes it is private land that has been in my family for nearly a century. 

Ike

AStravelers said:

Gas mileage hasn't changed much on RV's in 20-40 years with the exception that the Mercedes, when then came available do get much better mileage than the Ford V-10.  Expect 7-8.5 mpg on Fords.  Mercedes probably in the low to mid teens. 
By the way, gas mileage is not a really big problem unless you are planning on driving 10,000 miles or more a year.

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I just did the math today. Let's say that a gallon of gas is 3$ (or that's the price it will be by the time I retire). Let's say 6000 miles for our first winter and 7 MPG. It means 857 gallons or 2571 USD worth of gas.
Wow.

So it would be about half that price for a 24F Mercedes based class C since you said that they're in the low to mid teens.

Having some real estate in your MH costs big bucks!

I don't recall if anyone mentioned it, but diesel usually costs more than gas.  There for a while this summer they were pretty close but I noticed this week that the gap has widened again.

ArdraF