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Author Topic: my Triton V10 im not so happy  (Read 862 times)

Bobpic

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my Triton V10 im not so happy
« on: September 30, 2017, 06:03:31 PM »
Ok here's the deal, I need some info, We currently own a 2014 Thor freedom elite 28H over all it's 30 ft. it's on a Ford E450 chassis with a Triton V10 and Allison transmission with 23,000 miles on it.
 
I'm happy with the motorhome end but there are quality issues for sure dealing with that. My real problem is with the performance of this unit, the smallest hill will have this thing backing shifting and the engine screaming at 4 to 5 rpm's till I get over the hill, also at 5 g's it will not backshift , upshift or fall into overdrive sometimes it just hangs there till I get off the gas or we hit 60 to 65 mph. I have tried all different kinds of driving stiles from inching up hills at 35 mph to playing with the gas peddle to make it shift gears to flat out just letting it scream up the hill. I am very disappointed in the performance of this engine or trans not sure which is the problem.
 
How ever, and this is what I don't get there are 100's of ford V10 class A's out there I know cause they pass me like I'm standing still. what gives are there different V10's with more horsepower?

I ask this only cause we are looking to trade this unit in as it's time for an upgrade, And I have been dead set on a diesel due to the performance of my current V10, How ever the cost of a diesel unit has got us looking at gas again.

Now befor you ask, yes I just took it to the ford dealer when we got back from this trip had a long talk with the service tech as to what was happing. they checked engine and transmission and reported back to me "THAT'S THE WAY IT'S DESIGNED IT WILL DO THAT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WE CAN FIND"
 
So my quest for info is this, I would like to hear from some people with Class A motorhomes with the ford V10 Triton what is you performance like. do you wish at time you had a diesel? Thank you

AStravelers

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 06:43:28 PM »
I believe you have the Ford 5 speed transmission, not an Allison.

The V-10 is a high reving engine.  If you are trying to keep your speed up, such as leaving the cruise control engaged, yep it is going to down shift and go up to 4000+ RPM.  That is the design.  The big GM V8 in some older RV's is designed differently, however GM stopped building RV chassis some years ago. 

I find the downshifting irritating as well.  It makes me "drive" the RV, not just sit back and leave it on cruise control when going over overpasses or up minor hills.  When I approach the hill or overpass I tap the brake peddle dropping out of cruise control and "drive" over the incline. 

The RV's are not cars.  Even diesel pushers downshift on hill or overpasses cars don't.  Since the engine is in the rear and doesn't run high RPM's you just don't notice it as much.

And, Yes, if you leave the cruise control on even after tapping the brake the computer either won't shift back into OD or keeps accelerating until it reaches the speed it was set on earlier.  It happens to me every once in a while when I forget to tap the brake and "drive" over the hill.  It is what a human programed the computer to do.  Just a dumb computer following instructions. 

The Ford 2016 chassis has the 6 speed which I hear works much better.
Al & Sharon
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2009 Chevy Colorado 4X4

http://downtheroadaroundthebend.blogspot.com/

kdbgoat

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2017, 07:07:22 PM »
I dislike the way my tranny works also. One thing I do is start picking up speed before the hill. Doing that will keep me at 3500/3700 rpms unless it's a fairly large hill.
And yes, I can attest the 6 speed tranny works much, much better. As I've said before, Ford has had the 6 speed behind the 6.2 gas engine and the 6.7 diesel in their Super Duty pick-up line since 2011, and I have yet to figure out why it took them so long to get it behind the V-10's.
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dabrooks

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2017, 07:30:30 PM »
I added the 5 Star Tune to our 35 ft Tiffin and it made all the difference in the world in the way it drives. It down shifts smooth from 5th to 4th and pulls most hills 60 to 65 mph at 3600 rpms.
Dave Brooks
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KandT

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2017, 08:11:43 PM »
This issue occasionally comes up on this forum ::)   It is a thirsty high revving engine - Do the "A's" have a tow/haul mode? 

Are you carrying your water tanks filled?  Packing heavy?  The V10's that are passing you - Are they as heavy as you are?  Sometimes the manufacturers get pretty close to the chassis limit before you put your mac and cheese in the pantry.

Empty the black and grey tanks before you pull out?
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KandT

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 08:12:30 PM »
This issue occasionally comes up on this forum ::)   It is a thirsty high revving engine - Do the "A's" have a tow/haul mode? 

Are you carrying your water tanks filled?  Packing heavy?  The V10's that are passing you - Are they as heavy as you are?  Sometimes the manufacturers get pretty close to the chassis limit before you put your mac and cheese in the pantry.

Empty the black and grey tanks before you pull out?

I would be quite surprised if you have an Allison in that.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 08:35:47 PM »
I thought the E350 /450 chassis had a 2 valve V10,    and the chassis they use on the Class A motorhome (F53) is a 3 valve engine that has more power.

I don't have a huge problem with hills, but it is like driving a truck....not a car.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 08:40:22 PM by TonyDtorch »

thomasamski

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 09:36:45 PM »
The Ford V10s are loud. I tend not to use cruise control up and down hills. I use the steering wheel cruise controls and stay off auto pilot as much as possible.
2011 Fleetwood Southwind pulling a 2010 Chevrolet HHR

AStravelers

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 07:04:07 AM »
I thought the E350 /450 chassis had a 2 valve V10,    and the chassis they use on the Class A motorhome (F53) is a 3 valve engine that has more power.

I don't have a huge problem with hills, but it is like driving a truck....not a car.
You are correct.  The Van Chassis has the 2 valve V10 and the F53 has the 3 valve. 

Some of the difference also comes from the rear axle ratio.  The larger F53, those around 35' or more have a rear axle ratio of around 5.50.  I don't remember the exact number but it is in that range.  Smaller and lighter vehicles have ratio in the 4.10 or little higher.  The higher ratio makes a difference in the power to the rear wheels.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 07:08:09 AM by AStravelers »
Al & Sharon
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SargeW

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2017, 08:24:14 AM »
The size of your tires can also make a difference in the final gear ratio of how the vehicle drives. But considering that the rig is a 2014 it most likely still has the original rubber on it. Gassers just tend to make HP with high RPM's. Diesels will often flat line their torque curve under 2000 RPM. Different animal.
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glen54737

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 08:46:54 AM »
http://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech-articles/gas-engines/ford-6-8l-v-10-engine/
You are correct the e350/450 has a 2 valve and the f53 has the 3 valve.
I wonder why?
It's the only product to get the v-10 and they both are produced on the same line.
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kdbgoat

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 09:15:54 AM »
http://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech-articles/gas-engines/ford-6-8l-v-10-engine/
You are correct the e350/450 has a 2 valve and the f53 has the 3 valve.
I wonder why?
It's the only product to get the v-10 and they both are produced on the same line.

From my understanding, the E series doesn't have enough room in the dog house for the larger valve covers.
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Bobpic

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 09:57:12 AM »
First let me start by saying thank you for the reply's from all

As for cruse control most of the time I only use auto pilot in the flats and some small hilly areas and even then it's a tap of the breaks before hand also I use the downhill ride to build up some speed for the up hill run.

As far as the tranny goes you guys are all right no Allison don't know where I came up with that one had diesel on my mined at the time I guess, not really sure what tranny is in it will have do my home work on that but most likely a 5 speed

Black and gray water always get dump before we pull out but I do put about 2 gals back in the black tank just to slouch around and at most we have 1/3 of fresh water, I don't think we load that heavy its just the two of us and not that much gear, but I'm not sure how close the manufacturers is to chassis limit. how would I find this info?

I have seen adds for the 5 star tune flash programmer and have done some reading on it, I must admit it sounds tempting but the fear of botching my on-board computer freaks the hell out of me not the mention the 500 dollar price tag.

I have read about the 2V vs the 3V and wonder if that's the one big difference between my C and the A's, My C is a E450 super duty with the triton V10 but I don't know which one, how would in find this out? My tires are indeed the  original rubber so no change there

So in summery it's big its loud and there's not much I can do about it, 5 star sound like my next best option to try and tame the tranny or an upgrade unit. in that case I guess my question is sort of the same

Can I expect this same kind of performance out of a class A triton V10???

I know the cabin noise will be some what the same but a little less I have been in a running A and as you are not sitting right next to the engine box it is better

But what about engine or more important transmission performance??

TonyDtorch

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 11:29:56 AM »
The size of your tires can also make a difference in the final gear ratio of how the vehicle drives. But considering that the rig is a 2014 it most likely still has the original rubber on it. Gassers just tend to make HP with high RPM's. Diesels will often flat line their torque curve under 2000 RPM. Different animal.

It says here it's a law of physics that gasoline engine internal combustion engine devolops a power curve crossing ( or max horsepower and torque) at 5250 rpm.

right where a V10 runs.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/maximum-power-and-maximum-torque.735684/

When I was building race engines we always geared them to peak at the track in high gear at 5500 rpm.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 11:48:59 AM by TonyDtorch »

sc4668

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 12:23:08 PM »
I had a 1999 32 ft class A with the V10 and I had to get used to the higher RPM when going up hills. I also towed a 35 ft race car trailer behind the motorhome with no problems. What I did do was have the computer reprogramed and add headers. The motorhome ran much better but still was running high RPM's as the years passed the engine noise was getting louder. I found the fan clutch was bad and the noise I was hearing was fan noise. Fast forward to today, I now have a 2007 F250 with the V10 and pull a 31 ft 5th wheel. I guess there have been improvements in the engine it still runs high RPM's and was noisy. Found the fan clutch bad and replaced now much quitter. I love the V10 but you just have to get used to its operation differences .  It has great torque and pulling ability, runs smooth but loves to drink gas. If I were buying another truck or motorhome I would want the V10, I can not justify the cost of diesel for the little bit I use maybe 10K a year.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2017, 12:51:47 PM »
Quote
It says here it's a law of physics that gasoline engine internal combustion engine develops a power curve crossing ( or max horsepower and torque) at 5250 rpm.

I think you misinterpreted that a bit, but 5252 is a mathematical crossing point for hp and torque (lb-ft) calculations. By definition, Hp = torque * rpms / 5252, so at 5252 rpms, hp and torque values will be equal.  The 5252 is a derived mathematical constant, not a law of physics.  This article explains it in fairly simplistic terms:
https://sciencing.com/calculate-horsepower-rpm-6224196.html
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 01:01:00 PM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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Bobpic

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2017, 03:51:03 PM »
lol Wow sorry but that's all lost on me, just your every day conmen RV'er here looking for a less noise filled ride and not having worrying that the engine is about to blow lol

but thanks it make for interesting reading and maybe I can learn something

reniram

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2017, 08:47:18 PM »
We have just returned from a trip to Colorado and had a good time..but... there were times when I really disliked the way the transmission behaved.....going to an "A" will not make much if any difference to the  cab noise for you ...I was even very close to putting earplugs in,but that would have annoyed the DW!..I like the Vista..it serves us very well and yes I am thinking about the 5 Star Tune..We are going to Florida again this winter {No hills } to climb so it will be much better so it's a yo yo effect for us...We will just ride and be happy!...

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2017, 08:17:37 AM »
Quote
just your every day conmen RV'er here looking for a less noise filled ride and not having worrying that the engine is about to blow lol

Your V10 ain't gonna blow. It is designed to be a high reving engine - that's the reason for 10 pistons instead of 8 or 6. The 2-valve version of the V10 produces its rated horsepower at around 5000 rpms and the current V10 has a max rpm rating around 5200. Some earlier years were even higher.

Folks accustomed to lower-revving big block V8's often get alarmed at the rpms and associated noise of a V10 (or a V6, for that matter), but its nothing to worry about. Some also get concerned because the newer 5, 6 (and now even 8 or 10) speed transmissions shift a lot, but that's just the tranny doing its job. More gears to choose from means it can optimize the engine power for the situation, but that also means shifting gears as conditions change. It's what trannies do...
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

AStravelers

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2017, 10:12:42 AM »
Tired of the noise from the V-10. 

SLOW down.  If you are running 65-70mph and start up the slightest incline the transmission will downshift and the RPM's will jump.  Even at 58-60mph it doesn't take much of an incline.  Keep in mind at 65-70mph your RPM's are already at around 3000, so just going down one gear will take you to 4000 or higher.

Even at 65-70mph if you will put your foot on the accelerator, tap the brake with your left foot and "drive" over the hill or overpass your speed will likely drop 3-5mph and you can keep the engine from screaming.  On the downhill side, gravity will bring your speed back up to your original speed and you an put the cruise control back on.

Same thing with going up 7% grade, which is pretty darn steep.  Pay attention to what gear the computer selects and drive to keep the RPM's at 3500-4000 and you won't have nearly the noise.  Not that it will be quiet, just not as noisy.
Al & Sharon
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2009 Chevy Colorado 4X4

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sadixon49

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2017, 09:51:03 AM »
I have a new 2017 class C with the V10 and 6 speed tranny. I just completed a trip thru Colorado on I70 up thru the Johnson tunnel. I have had no problem with the V10 and shift points, in fact I leave my tranny in tow/haul all the time. At 65 MPH my engine turns just 2300RPM in 6th, about 3100 RPM in 5th, and near 4000 RPM in 4th. While climbing the hill, I set the cruise at 55 and walked right up the hill with no problems. I guess I'm just an old school hot rodder because I get a kick out of listening to it whine. It really isn't that bad. My rational for leaving it in tow/haul is this; the chassis was designed for local delivery vans, and box trucks. The engineers knew that they would run empty most of the time but would sometimes be hauling or towing heavy loads, hence the tow/haul button, but with an RV, my rig is loaded near the GVWR nearly all the time, I'm always "hauling".
steve
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TonyDtorch

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2017, 11:00:50 AM »
Today's auto drivers think if their inexpensive little Toyota has no problem running all day at 75 mph.... then this brand new very expensive motorhome should be able to do that.

( Damn American made crap... ;) )

« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 06:12:48 PM by TonyDtorch »

Old Radios

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2017, 04:01:49 PM »
So...have you weighed it yet? Pack it like you normally would and take it to your local truck stop that has scales. Then compare the axle weights with the specs for your chassis. If you are close to the maximum weight for the chassis then expect your engine to work pretty hard on the hills.

And as stated above, slow down. I cruse along at 62-65 but drop to 50-55 on most long hills.  If I'm pulling our car or more often our trailer with the Harleys in it then it usually works pretty hard on long hills pulling an extra 3,000-4,000 pounds. You can't be in a hurry with these things.
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hedhunter9

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2017, 07:31:55 PM »
We have a 08 Outlaw toyhauler.. It is a 37 foot Class A with a 10 foot garage in back.. With 5 motorcycles in back, fully loaded water tanks. Gas, LP etc.. All my wifes clothes,,  It weighs in over 24,000lbs...   The 3 valve V-10 with the 5 speed tranny runs about 2300 rpms at 62mph...  If I hit a incline with cruise on, it will kick out of overdrive, torque lockup or whatever and downshift to 3rd ? and scream at over 4 grand, just to keep it at 62mph... And that is with NO hill to speak of.....
    What I do, is one of 2 things... either increase my speed slightly with the gas pedal as we approach the incline OR..   as I am going up the incline, just before it drops 1 mph, I tap the coast on the cruise control once... Many times all I get then, is it kicks out of torque lockup and the rpms only go to 2600 rpms to keep it at 62 mph..once over the hill/incline, it is right back to 2300 rpms as the torque converter locks up again.

  Now, for real hills like we got going thru the smoky mountains,  I took it off cruise control and only used the throttle..  I tried to build speed early if possible and usually keep the RPM's around 3,000 to 3,400.        It would make it over all the hills at this rpm with no problem..   Now on LONG steep climbs you might lose some speed as it downshifts but a little more throttle to 3,600 or 3,800 rpms usually kept us rolling along pretty good...

  So the rpms are up there, but this thing goes over hills better than our old 32 foot Class A MH that had the Chevy 454 motor and only weighed 14,000 lbs.......     So even with 10,000 more Lbs.. the ford V10 pulls better than that old V8..

  Now when my wife drives and wants to go 70mph +,    The rpms are higher and downshifts more often... Sigh....

Bob
Bob n Sharon
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kdbgoat

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2017, 06:10:03 AM »
How you handle hills is pretty much what I said I do, but you just explained it better.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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Bobpic

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2017, 06:12:48 AM »
Thanks for all the comments guys,

Ok so this is obviously this is my first ever encounter with the triton V10 and I was not expecting the high RPM's that this engine some times runs at, I can't say it doesn't perform it does pull the unit around fairly well. I have and do most of the things that have been suggested as far as driving style, trust me I'm not trying to hang at 70 to 80, 60 to 70 on the flats is about where I hang.

So I guess my real problem is the noise at 2300 rpm's rolling down the highway is fine a fairly peacefully ride but the mountains where we seem to find ourselves a lot of the time  with the engine screaming at 4000 and 5000 rpm's had been freaking me out with thoughts of  "this cant be right where going to damage this engine for sure"

and to be honest I'm not sure I haven't  answer me this

after a bit of this backing shifting upshifting downshifting and the tranny gets a real work out I may or may not be out of the hill. when I hit a place where I can sit back and relax and roll back to 60 or 65 and the rpm's settle in at 2300 to 2400 I get this harmonic hum from the tranny step on the gas will increases the sound and speed and after it hits a little higher speed I will fade but drop back down and it returns and ideas

sadixon49

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Re: my Triton V10 im not so happy
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2017, 06:23:15 AM »
Mine does that too! I've always felt it was tire noise. I like to drive at 65, that's what I set on the cruise, but the noise is really loud at that point. Drive 62 and you don't here it, and at 68 it's not so bad, but at 65 I here a very loud hum. Just always felt siping on the tires hit a particular harmonic at that point.
steve
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E-450 Ford, 6.8 V-10
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