Anyone Notice Private Parties Asking More than Dealers

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KandT

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Am I crazy (Yes) but that is beside the point.  Seems to me RV's are tough to gauge but to my surprise I see a lot of private parties holding their prices quite high.  Maybe they are upside down.  In a weird twist sometimes a better "pre hackle" deal seems to be at the dealer.  Maybe they want to draw me in and then switch but heavens to betsy the private parties seem to hold their price to NADA Average which I know (save the comments) isn't gospel but gives us some idea of their price.  I always thought of retail meaning that you bought it from a dealer and you should expect a discount at a private party.

 
Why would a coach be worth more at a dealer? They sure don't  warranty any older coachs. From what I've seen if you find a coach below high retail at a dealer they need a lot of work. I had my coach for sale for a bit this summer and had a couple couples look at it. I was just a bit above low retail with my price. Had one guy that was real interested, and he told me my coach was the best one he had seen for the price. His wife just had knee surgery and thought it had too many steps to enter and exit. The other wanted to make an offer, I told him the price was firm, he said if you change your mind call me. I just took it off the market. Every coach that I've sold brought right at low retail, and they were 20 years old. 
 
I see a lot of rigs priced based on what the owner owes. Problem is many owners purchased with the minimum down, and when they decide to sell they owe way more than the current market value. I can sympathize, but the first rule of RV ownership is that they are lousy investments. Buy it for the fun of the RV experience and lifestyle, but not for the expectation of getting your money out of it.
 
Dealers are more likely to be in tune with the market conditions in their area and their trade-in allowances and selling prices will reflect that. Private owners tend not to be so realistic in their pricing, but are also often more flexible in discounting the longer the unit sits unsold.
 
You are comparing apples to oranges. The price you see listed at the dealer is not the price you will actually pay. Once you have agreed to pay the dealers listed price they start adding in the extras that a private party does not add in. Dealers fees, document fees, extended warranty, exterior shine coat, etc. And then they nick you on a trade in.
 
I noticed it on travel trailers.

I was looking on craigslist for a particular late model one and when I saw the prices on two three and four year old models, it was obvious to me, that I could get a brand new one cheaper than private parties were asking for their used ones.
I just hope newbies and first time buyers don't settle for a used one when they can possibly do better at a dealer on a new one.

Jack L
 
SeilerBird said:
You are comparing apples to oranges. The price you see listed at the dealer is not the price you will actually pay. Once you have agreed to pay the dealers listed price they start adding in the extras that a private party does not add in. Dealers fees, document fees, extended warranty, exterior shine coat, etc. And then they nick you on a trade in.

Good point Seiller.  I always say "This offer means I am going to cut you a check for $x amount.  You can call it anything you want after that but my check is going to be for $x". That seems to have cut us to the chase on car purchases.
 
SargeW said:
I see a lot of rigs priced based on what the owner owes. Problem is many owners purchased with the minimum down, and when they decide to sell they owe way more than the current market value. I can sympathize, but the first rule of RV ownership is that they are lousy investments. Buy it for the fun of the RV experience and lifestyle, but not for the expectation of getting your money out of it.

I think you are right.  People get upside down and quite frankly can't afford to run them so they want to sell for the price they owe.  My problem with that is they got the best years out of the RV and then want a buyer to pick up the payments for their now USED RV.

I say this with a huge love of RV's. - They are one of the worst financial decisions a person can make.  Now the fun my kids and I have make it make sense but the money we spend???  Stupid!! 
 
KandT said:
I say this with a huge love of RV's. - They are one of the worst financial decisions a person can make. 

Yep, I am an RV addict! The bug bit me 40 years ago when I stumbled upon my first 8' truck camper. Fast forward to today and I have owned more new RV's than I care to admit. But I have loved every minute of it (mostly) and the DW and I are enjoying the heck out of retirement. Hey, you can't take it with you, right?
 
Two reasons:
1. The seller owes more than its worth
2. They have no idea of the actual market value

Many owners are staggered when they [finally] realize that the rig they paid so much for has depreciated badly. And that 20 year loan with very affordable payments was maybe not such a good idea afterall.

And maybe a third reason: Buyers on the private market often like to bargain, or at least are inclined to make a lower offer no matter what the asking price. Sellers may intentionally leave room in their asking price for that. It's the Turkish Bazaar syndrome - the seller asks for more and the buyer offers less and they eventually meet somewhere in the middle. Of course, dealers do much the same, asking for the price they would like to get, not necessarily the lowest they can accept.
 
I've sold several on my own, and I found NADA will quickly artificially inflate your price beyond market.  In addition to what is owed to the bank, I wonder if some rely too much on NADA rather than check the market out there.
 
Yes - I bought and sold mine below NADA low retail.  It did not take long to sell and I cut right to the chase with the price.  Of course if you paid too much it becomes a lot to swallow that the market will only pay you less than NADA low retail.  My strategy was to go with a cashiers check when I bought and when I sold I starting at an attractive price.  When they wanted to bargain I was very polite and told them I respected that they asked because I always ask but as I am sure they knew it was already priced aggressively.  They agreed and we had a cashiers check in hand a few days later.  Oh and total loss - $1000.  Now I did put $805 worth of tires on it and lots of little items but we used it two full seasons and put 8000 miles on it.  Oh and I learned a ton.  Of course I put lots of gas in it and three oil changes.  But all in all I thought that was pretty dang good!  Tons and tons of fun!!!
 
Charlie 5320 said:
Why would a coach be worth more at a dealer?

It?s not that they are worth more - it?s that when you buy from a private party you are  not adding the expense of the dealer so both parties should share some in the benefit.  The seller should get more than if he sold it to a dealer (not the phony ?trade? numbers) and the buyer should pay less.
 
Im going thriugh this big time!!! Jayco redhawk $60k brand new with all the fees.

Used: 1-3 years lowest i have seen is 65k...wtf

They say these units depreciate a ton day 1.

I want to buy gently used but can't find a used seller that exists in my area.
 
I think some sellers believe the dealer is screwing them when they give a big depreciation price. They are too bottoms up on their loan to take a real price, so they think they will do better selling on their own. However the units really do depreciate from day one. A unit is only worth what a willing buyer will pay for it.
 
Many people do not know how to apply the NADA options.  For example, charging extra for slides on a motorhome that comes with slides.  I've seen them include everything except the kitchen sink when calculating values.  Dealers also play this game.  When I asked one dealer why, he told me it allows the bank to finance a greater portion of the selling price. 
 
My problem with NADA, at least the free online variety is that it is nearly useless on older coaches.  Lets take the one I own and its cousins as an example, with no options added, MSRP as reported by NADA and Average Retail NADA sales price

2002 Safari Trek 2830 on a P32 chassis  List Price $101,668 current NADA $15,150

Lets go back same model 5 years older which would have the 7.4L vs 8.1L and lower levels of interior amenities (no solid counter tops, no ducted air conditioner, ...)

1997 Safari Trek 2830 on P32 Chassis List Price $76,650 current NADA $15,150

Ok lets try an entry level coach on the same chassis

First a Fleetwood Flair

1997 Fleetwood Flair M29V on P32 List Price $59,546 current NADA $15,150

How about a Tiffin
1996 Tiffin Allegro M-28 on P32 List Price $52,813 current NADA $15,150

Does anyone see a trend here, if it is on a P32 from at least 1996 - 2002 NADA says it is worth $15,150 regardless of being a bare bones entry level or luxury coach with inverter, levelling jacks, solid wood cabinets, ...
 
To be fair coaches, tractors, boats etc. drop to a certain point and then level off.  A lot of the extras break or become a liability anyways and they can?t account for every hubcap upgrade etc.
 
True, but in my opinion coaches built with higher quality materials tend to age better, in the above example we include coaches on the low end with vinyl graphics, EPDM rubber roofs, plastic shower pans, and particle board cabinets being valued at the same level as one with full body paint, an Aluminum roof, fiberglass shower, real wood cabinets, and Corian counter tops.  This leaves out those items that may increase maintenance like dual pane windows, leveling jacks, inverters, convection ovens, ... which the entry level models don't have.
 
Yep the nada is only a rough guess - think of two ten year old coaches.  One has been stored in Maryland garage.  The other was stored outside in North Dakota.  There is no ?how stores? section.
 

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