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Author Topic: The Rialta and NADA  (Read 886 times)

nine7oone

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The Rialta and NADA
« on: October 15, 2017, 06:49:09 PM »
I've been shopping for my first RV for a few months. Actually, it would be more accurate to say I've been investigating and educating myself about RVs before committing to buying one. One thing I know for sure though is that I don't want a nearly forty-foot Class A RV. I know other folks have no problem with them, but  I would be so stressed out driving one I'd need a vacation from my vacation.

Since my knowledge of RVs was nonexistent when I started, I decided to check any RV that interested me with the NADA price guide. It was actually very helpful and enlightening. I found that the NADA price and the asking price were usually in the same ballpark. If anything, a lot of the asking prices were lower than the NADA price.

Then today I ran into an anomaly. I saw a picture of a very attractive, smaller RV and decided to investigate further. The RV was the Winnebago Rialta, and when I did my NADA check I found that the asking price for nearly every Rialta was nearly $10,000 (and often times a lot more)  than the NADA price.

I'm just curious if anyone knows why this is the case because it makes it hard to consider buying one. Thanks, David

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 07:34:34 PM »
Probably just a cult-like thing. Some models attract a following and the market prices reflect the demand.  Unlike the car NADA, the online NAGA Guide is just an estimated depreciation and does not take market demand into account. There is no system of wholesale auctions or price reporting with RVs, so there is no good data about actual prices. However, most Rvs tend to stay within range of the depreciation formula, at least for the first 12-15 years. Eventually, condition dominates age-based depreciation.

Old Airstreams tend to go well above estimated depreciation. So do Winnie Elandons and GMC motohomes. Even the Toyota mini-motorhomes have a following.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 07:36:06 PM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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afchap

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2017, 09:19:28 PM »
Partly the cult thing. But very often owners over-value their used RV due to emotional attachment and/or what they still owe on their loan.
Paul ... (KE5LXU), was fulltimin', now parttimin'...
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2017, 07:46:11 AM »
It is certainly true that asking prices on the private market are often out of line with reality.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
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John Canfield

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2017, 12:32:16 PM »
The Rialta is on a VW chassis and you could have a huge issue finding a VW dealer to work on the chassis bits and pieces. They seem to be very popular but they have some serious shortcomings.
--John
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capt7310

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 01:56:28 PM »
Hello,
I'm new to the site  and just purchased a 2004 Rialta. We drove it back from Las Vegas to Long Island. On the way home the tensioner pulley came apart. We found a service station in VA.  and these guys were awesome they got a OEM part and installed it and we were back on the road the following day.
My point is that it's my understanding that the motor is a Jetta motor and they were able to get the part.

These Rialta's are very hard to find and most are rotted out in the chassis. So we decided to go where there is pretty much zero humidity. We got a great Rialta with low mileage, but yes we paid a lot more for it. We hope it will bring us much enjoyment and fun.
I hope I can help with info and other matters with Rialta's.

TonyDtorch

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 02:13:41 PM »
I think the convenience and size of the Rialta is why it's sells for more than it should.  Great package but the VW running gear is the weakness.

John Canfield

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 04:46:18 PM »
Welcome to the Winnebago family!
--John
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Isaac-1

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 05:45:59 PM »
My take on it is that used RV's tend to sell for exactly what they should sell for and that it is NADA that is wrong.  Sure there are over priced RV's out there, and owners asking more than they are worth, but when you see a specific model where every listing month after month across the entire country is substantially higher than NADA chances are there is a reason.  Also it seems that NADA fails to even do their research on depreciation based pricing, for this I will point to my coach, a 2002 Safari Trek on a P32 Chassis, it seems if one looks at NADA you will see the exact same $15,150 average retail for any 27-30 ft long P32 chassis motorhome built between about 1997-2002, regardless if it were a cheaply built (rubber roof, vinyl graphic, particle board cabinet, plastic shower) Fleetwood Flair with an original MSRP of $62,000 or a well built Safari Trek (Fiberglass or Aluminum roof, full body paint, solid wood cabinets, fiberglass shower, ...) with an MSRP of $114,000 or anything in between.
2002 Safari Trek 2830

John Canfield

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 07:28:10 AM »
Worth or value is established by what a well informed buyer will pay a well informed seller. Establishing a 'book' value of RVs by a simple algorithm will not be realistic unlike used cars and trucks.
--John
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TonyDtorch

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 12:06:56 PM »
  NADA or KBB  does not estimate a vehicle value,  from the actual sales demand value....that's why dealerships love them.


spencerpj

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 12:31:11 PM »
And Time of year has an effect on prices.

Price a used TT in the Spring vs the Fall


indiana journey

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 01:33:54 PM »
Didn't Motorhome magazine have an article about a couple that "refurbished" a Rialta a few months ago? Perhaps that has something to do with the asking price.
Indiana Journey

Oldgator73

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 01:37:12 PM »
I just looked at them on RV Trader. They are pretty pricey. But it seems that Class B MH's are pricey anyway.
Retired Air Force
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Bill N

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2018, 07:24:52 AM »
Worth or value is established by what a well informed buyer will pay a well informed seller. Establishing a 'book' value of RVs by a simple algorithm will not be realistic unlike used cars and trucks.

Very true John but please tell that to my country tax assessor who thinks personal property taxes on vehicles  (including RVs) should be based on NADA values.  Really frosts me when my 15 year old coach is taxed more than my 3 year old Chrysler van.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
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John Canfield

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 07:38:54 AM »
^^ LOL ^^ that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Bill (Duner) has a 2004 Chieftain registered in California that was supposed to dramatically drop in assessed value I think he said after ten years for personal property tax reasons. Apparently that didn't happen. Moonbeam needs his money. All of our vehicles are registered in Florida and there is no personal property tax  :D.
--John
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Oldgator73

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2018, 08:12:23 AM »
Missouri has personal property taxes. You cannot register your car until you prove all your personal property taxes are paid. We now live in Dover, DE. We purchased our one acre lot for $52,000. The city assed the lot for tax purposes for $100,000. So States and municipalities can pretty much do whatever they want, tax wise.
Retired Air Force
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garyb1st

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 11:33:09 AM »
We live in California.  The registration on our 2005 Pace Arrow is just over $500.00. 

My guess is the tax would be less if Moonbeam didn't have to charge more to the residents who actually pay their taxes, in order to offset the taxes not paid by residents who illegally register their vehicles in states that do not tax RV's, or tax at a greatly reduced rate.   

Not to start an argument, but for all of you who register your RV's out of state, to save a few bucks, let's be honest, you're not screwing the State, you're screwing your neighbors. 
 
Gary B1st

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John Canfield

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 11:44:19 AM »
....Not to start an argument, but for all of you who register your RV's out of state, to save a few bucks, let's be honest, you're not screwing the State, you're screwing your neighbors.

[OT]
I hear you. However our official state of residence is Florida. Where you own property and/or houses has nothing to do with determining official residence. We spend about half the year at our ranch in Texas and half on the road. However if we were gainfully employed in Texas, then we would have xx days to get a Texas driver's license and register the vehicles in Texas. When we lived and worked in Texas, we paid state taxes.
[/OT]

We better get back on topic  :P
--John
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Bill N

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2018, 08:45:36 AM »
Missouri has personal property taxes. You cannot register your car until you prove all your personal property taxes are paid. We now live in Dover, DE. We purchased our one acre lot for $52,000. The city assed the lot for tax purposes for $100,000. So States and municipalities can pretty much do whatever they want, tax wise.
Also in Missouri, if you let your insurance (liability) be dropped during the winter months while in storage, the company reports it to the state and your plates are voided.  You MUST maintain liability or go through the entire registration process when trying to  get new plates.  Got this direct from the state.  Silly.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 1

Bill N

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2018, 08:51:45 AM »
We live in California.  The registration on our 2005 Pace Arrow is just over $500.00. 

My guess is the tax would be less if Moonbeam didn't have to charge more to the residents who actually pay their taxes, in order to offset the taxes not paid by residents who illegally register their vehicles in states that do not tax RV's, or tax at a greatly reduced rate.   

Not to start an argument, but for all of you who register your RV's out of state, to save a few bucks, let's be honest, you're not screwing the State, you're screwing your neighbors.

Gary I can sympathize but I think you are using the word 'illegally' rather loosely.  Most of those registrations are handled by lawyers and are in total compliance with the laws where registered.  I don't do that myself but have been tempted and the difference between 3 percent and 8.75 percent sales tax can be quite large as well as the annual personal property taxes.

I have lived in California but it was many years ago.  From what I read on the news, California's money problems extend far beyond the registration of RVs.  Moonbeam would just find another cause to put your taxes toward.  Good luck on that.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 1

jagnweiner

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2018, 10:42:24 AM »
In case anyone was wondering, the OP made his one and only post starting this thread last October, was last on the forum two days later, and has had no further activity.   ::)  Fascinating discussion of property taxes though . . .
-Scott
2000 Itasca Horizon 36LD

John Canfield

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Re: The Rialta and NADA
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 02:20:52 PM »
This thread came to life a few days ago. I think we've beat several issues to death and I'm going to lock it.
--John
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