Class A Handling issues

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WinterAdverse said:
I guess I'm a slow learner. I have been looking at the CHF solutions and can't help but think that there is some reason the design engineers wanted the sway bar connections in the outside hole rather than the inside. I keep thinking if I move the connections to the inside hole I would be defeating some design/safety issue. That being said, the CHF on the front looks like it is a nonstarter with my chassis. In order to move the connections I would have to raise the ends of the sway bar and that would move the inside holes further away from the ends of the rods that drop down from the frame. It looks like those rods are just too short to make the connection to the inside holes on the sway bar. The rods are already located forward of the sway bar and are slanted towards the sway bar to make the connection at the outside holes. I think the connection rods would be an inch or two short of the inside holes. On the rear sway bar the CHF could be done but I would have to lower the sway bar ends in order to connect to the inside holes. It looks like that is certainly doable without causing any additional issues. That's where the nagging design issue thought come into play. Perhaps I am over thinking this but I can't help but wonder why the connections are in the outside holes to being with. I can understand why there are 2 holes in the sway bars, which is probably to make the bars fit different chassis.  If anyone has any design insights I would certainly be interested in seeing them. On another issue I'm looking at rear track bars and I see some connect from the frame to the sway bar bracket that is welded to the axle and some are connected from the frame to bolts on the differential housing. I think the latter would put a lot of stress on those bolts. Does anyone have any thoughts on which is the better approach?
As far as the track bar goes - the longer the bar, the better - don't think either location is problem - they have been used on many ford chassis and for many miles/years without issue - as have the swaybar chf changes. No one has ever gotten answer to the question as to "why two holes".  Again, been in use for several years and many miles on many an F53 chassis.
 
Thanks for the comments and insights. Based on the comments the track bar design that connects to the sway bar bracket is the longer of the track bar designs so that sounds like the way to go for the best results. I still have concerns about the CHF but will probably try it on the rear when the weather warms a bit. I can't see that the CHF for the front can be done unless I find some longer rods to connect the frame to the sway bar. Anyone know if those are available from any aftermarket suppliers.  I have entertained the idea of swapping the rear rods and front rods since the rear ones look like they are longer than they need to be. I always think that just because something has always been done doesn't necessarily mean that it is the right thing to do. Thanks again for the comments.
 
WinterAdverse said:
Thanks for the link for the adjustable links. I will look at that. Much appreciated.
Trying to figure out why you need longer links? take both links loose and the sway bar will rotate down. The links control the location of the sway bar. Replace the bushings in the links with polypropylene bushings as they are harder and will give better control.
Bill
 
As stated in a previous post: "The CHF on the front looks like it is a nonstarter with my chassis. In order to move the connections I would have to raise the ends of the sway bar and that would move the inside holes further away from the ends of the rods that drop down from the frame. It looks like those rods are just too short to make the connection to the inside holes on the sway bar. The rods are already located forward of the sway bar and are slanted towards the sway bar to make the connection at the outside holes. I think the connection rods would be an inch or two short of the inside holes." I may try the CHF on the front without the adjustable links just to see if it is possible if I feel adventurous and have time to spare. First I want to measure the links and the approximate length required with the CHF but that will have to wait till the weather is a bit warmer.
 
Well I took advantage of a nice day and performed the CHF on the rear of the Motorhome. It actually wasn't too bad, once I had all the tools I needed close by. It was a good workout for an old man. I was really surprised that the nuts and bolts were metric, 16 & 18mm to be exact. For something made it the US I was expecting and was prepared for the old SAE stuff. That required a trip from the storage unit to home and back. I looked at the front end and did some measuring and realized that the CHF is not possible unless I get some longer link rods. The installed rods measure 11 inches bolt to bolt. As I mentioned before I would need to raise the sway bar to make the CHF and that would move the inside holes away from the link rods, which would have to be pushed toward the back of the chassis to reconnect to the sway bar inside holes. The link rods are already slanted back towards the rear to connect to the sway bar outside holes. My rough estimate is the link rods would have to be 12 to 12 1/2 inches to allow for the reconnect. My thinking is to forget about the CHF on the front and see how the MH handles with the the rear CHF. If it is not what I want then to try a steering stabilizer instead of the CHF. I haven't test drove the MH yet since the rear CHF because we have a cold front coming through with high wind warnings. I hope to get it out in a couple of days.
 
Glad you elected to make adjustments before buying some of the stuff being marketed to us RVers.
Here's one more adjustment to make before you spend a fortune on stuff.
Make sure the toe-in is set to 1/16"-3/32" toe-in. It makes a huge factor in steering wheel response.  Believe it or not, if it feels like something is loose, it may just be toe-in.
Toe in can be measured using two straight pins, stuck in the center of the tread, and a tape measure. Have you ever seen a tape measure out of calibration? GRIN.... Think about all those high end, out of calibration, front end lazer alignment machines and the unqualified personal using them. Grrrrrrrrrr
Stick the pins in the center/front of the tread, measure. Roll RV tires back 180 degrees and measure again. Front measurement should be 1/16"-3/32" less than rear. How simple is that.
If the toe-in is off, then the work begins. The adjustment is on the right tie rod end. Wrench sticking up on top of the sleeve nut, push back for more toe-in. Oh yeah, loosen the clamp first. Wipe sweat out of eyes.
 
Thanks for the tip on the toe-in. I have seen that discussed in other places and wonder how that would affect the tire wear. Have you noticed any unusual or increased wear on the tires after getting the toe-in adjusted?
 
I am weighing in about 19000 lbs fully loaded pulling a single axle trailer    F53 Chassis... I done the CHF on both the sway bars..Installed Firestone Air bags and run tire pressures at 65lbs ....even the DW enjoys driving the rig now...

reniram---How did you arrive at 65 pounds?  That seems awful low.  What size tires are you running?
 
WinterAdverse said:
Thanks for the tip on the toe-in. I have seen that discussed in other places and wonder how that would affect the tire wear. Have you noticed any unusual or increased wear on the tires after getting the toe-in adjusted?

Just the opposite, when toe-in is set correctly you will get minimum tire wear.

Richard
 
Incorrect Toe In will cause excessive wear. Camber and Pressure will reflect the wear profile. Too little caster will effect the highway speed stability. IMO.
 
We have heard good things about the Safe-T-Plus. Planning on installing one on our coach.
 
wackymac said:
I am weighing in about 19000 lbs fully loaded pulling a single axle trailer    F53 Chassis... I done the CHF on both the sway bars..Installed Firestone Air bags and run tire pressures at 65lbs ....even the DW enjoys driving the rig now...

reniram---How did you arrive at 65 pounds?  That seems awful low.  What size tires are you running?

Tires are Goodyear 245 70 R19.5  5 ply rating...  Max rec tire pressure is 110psi...I experimented..initially running 85psi..and gradually , using the trial and error method found that  my current 65psi gained me much increased control and a better ride...a win win situation for me...I was concerned at first about tires overheating etc. but my local tire expert  assured me that with my total weight and distance between the rear duals (can't have them even close to touching)..these tires will handle pretty much anything I can throw at them, but he also told me that I should NOT go any lower....However..as the WEIGHT increases..ie  larger rig...  as in more HEAVY...then you should raise the tire pressures accordingly...suggesting NOT to exceed 85psi...  talking about summer heat increasing tire pressures and needing a safety margin..so this is where I am at and as stated very happy with the end result...
 
reniram said:
Tires are Goodyear 245 70 R19.5  5 ply rating...  Max rec tire pressure is 110psi...I experimented..initially running 85psi..and gradually , using the trial and error method found that  my current 65psi gained me much increased control and a better ride...a win win situation for me...I was concerned at first about tires overheating etc. but my local tire expert  assured me that with my total weight and distance between the rear duals (can't have them even close to touching)..these tires will handle pretty much anything I can throw at them, but he also told me that I should NOT go any lower....However..as the WEIGHT increases..ie  larger rig...  as in more HEAVY...then you should raise the tire pressures accordingly...suggesting NOT to exceed 85psi...  talking about summer heat increasing tire pressures and needing a safety margin..so this is where I am at and as stated very happy with the end result...
The correct way is to weigh your coach and set your tire pressure based on the charts provided buy the tire manufacture. not buy experimenting.
 
So who else would I go to other than my Goodyear tire expert...They have dealt with HD tires for at least the last 50 years I know for sure ..then some young snot nosed college kid comes along and wastes his time making charts and graphs just to impress the boss and the ignorant population..Common sense is thrown out the window  I had to deal with this type of ideals for most of my working life...If we didn't do a little out the box experimentation in our lifetime we still be rubbing two sticks together...End of rant.....My trials were based on the information given...no set hard rules...the end result was arrived at by miles driven and was totally approved with full warranties for my particular application... Tire guidelines papers are just that...It stands to reason if I were involved in the production of tire  or any other manufacturing process I would do my darndest to protect my product...and after severe testing  to destruction I would cut that figure in half just to ensure I wouldn't be sued or whatever..stupid people do stupid things and there are a lot of them out there!
 
"So who else would I go to other than my Goodyear tire expert...They have dealt with HD tires for at least the last 50 years I know for sure"
So please explain to us how, without knowing what your axel weights are he would think it is ok to run 65psi? You are running 245 70 R19.5 load range "G" right? Did you know that  your experts who have dealt with HD tires for at least the last 50 years say 80 psi is the lowest recommended pressure to run that tire? That at that pressure it can only safely carry 3415 as a duel and 3640 on a single application. WHAT DOES YOUR COACH WEIGH AT ALL WHEEL LOCATIONS? Use the heaviest side to set the tire pressure for that axel. If you can't get all 4 corners weigh each axel and use that weight to set pressure. There is something You need to (seriously) check on if your coach is 19,000 lbs and divided by 4 that = 4750 per corner but we all know they aren't balanced like that. But that is why it is so important to get actual weights. if you had a front tire carrying 4750 that is more than a load range "G " can handle at any pressure, you would need a "H" at near max psi. I didn't add in tong weight from your trailer.
https://www.goodyeartrucktires.com/pdf/resources/publications/2010_loadinflation.pdf
One other thing about that statement about your warranty?
"the end result was arrived at by miles driven and was totally approved with full warranties for my particular application..." 
You might want to read the exclusions in your warranty paperwork. Improper inflation, overloading, high-speed spinup, misapplication, misuse, negligence, racing, chain damage, or improper mounting or demounting. Are not covered. They expect you to be smart enough to keep your tiers properly inflated.
Just trying to keep you safe.
Bill
 
Wildbill...do you go to bed each night with a burr under your bed?  Is this all you have...get a life ...or a job or something!!
 
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