EPDM Coatings
rvupgradestore.com Composet Products Custom Yacht Interiors

Author Topic: Class A Handling issues  (Read 2141 times)

rls7201

  • ---
  • Posts: 645
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2017, 08:40:08 AM »
Thanks for the tip on the toe-in. I have seen that discussed in other places and wonder how that would affect the tire wear. Have you noticed any unusual or increased wear on the tires after getting the toe-in adjusted?

Just the opposite, when toe-in is set correctly you will get minimum tire wear.

Richard
Richard  & Michele Shields
& Eg the Bounder Cat
Gladstone, MO
95 Bounder 32H F53
460/528 stroker

Harvard

  • ---
  • Posts: 141
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2017, 11:41:39 AM »
Incorrect Toe In will cause excessive wear. Camber and Pressure will reflect the wear profile. Too little caster will effect the highway speed stability. IMO.

rls7201

  • ---
  • Posts: 645
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2017, 01:50:59 PM »
delete
Richard  & Michele Shields
& Eg the Bounder Cat
Gladstone, MO
95 Bounder 32H F53
460/528 stroker

vmyoung61

  • ---
  • Posts: 141
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2017, 09:05:03 PM »
We have heard good things about the Safe-T-Plus. Planning on installing one on our coach.
Steve and Gina
2017 Thor Palazzo 33.2
2017 Chevy Equinox toad

reniram

  • ---
  • Posts: 51
  • 2013 Winnebago 26HE Vista F53 V10
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2017, 09:17:39 AM »
I am weighing in about 19000 lbs fully loaded pulling a single axle trailer    F53 Chassis... I done the CHF on both the sway bars..Installed Firestone Air bags and run tire pressures at 65lbs ....even the DW enjoys driving the rig now...

reniram---How did you arrive at 65 pounds?  That seems awful low.  What size tires are you running?

Tires are Goodyear 245 70 R19.5   5 ply rating...  Max rec tire pressure is 110psi...I experimented..initially running 85psi..and gradually , using the trial and error method found that  my current 65psi gained me much increased control and a better ride...a win win situation for me...I was concerned at first about tires overheating etc. but my local tire expert  assured me that with my total weight and distance between the rear duals (can't have them even close to touching)..these tires will handle pretty much anything I can throw at them, but he also told me that I should NOT go any lower....However..as the WEIGHT increases..ie  larger rig...  as in more HEAVY...then you should raise the tire pressures accordingly...suggesting NOT to exceed 85psi...  talking about summer heat increasing tire pressures and needing a safety margin..so this is where I am at and as stated very happy with the end result...

WILDEBILL308

  • ---
  • Posts: 2415
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2017, 10:19:26 AM »
Tires are Goodyear 245 70 R19.5   5 ply rating...  Max rec tire pressure is 110psi...I experimented..initially running 85psi..and gradually , using the trial and error method found that  my current 65psi gained me much increased control and a better ride...a win win situation for me...I was concerned at first about tires overheating etc. but my local tire expert  assured me that with my total weight and distance between the rear duals (can't have them even close to touching)..these tires will handle pretty much anything I can throw at them, but he also told me that I should NOT go any lower....However..as the WEIGHT increases..ie  larger rig...  as in more HEAVY...then you should raise the tire pressures accordingly...suggesting NOT to exceed 85psi...  talking about summer heat increasing tire pressures and needing a safety margin..so this is where I am at and as stated very happy with the end result...
The correct way is to weigh your coach and set your tire pressure based on the charts provided buy the tire manufacture. not buy experimenting.
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

reniram

  • ---
  • Posts: 51
  • 2013 Winnebago 26HE Vista F53 V10
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2017, 02:05:56 PM »
So who else would I go to other than my Goodyear tire expert...They have dealt with HD tires for at least the last 50 years I know for sure ..then some young snot nosed college kid comes along and wastes his time making charts and graphs just to impress the boss and the ignorant population..Common sense is thrown out the window  I had to deal with this type of ideals for most of my working life...If we didn't do a little out the box experimentation in our lifetime we still be rubbing two sticks together...End of rant.....My trials were based on the information given...no set hard rules...the end result was arrived at by miles driven and was totally approved with full warranties for my particular application... Tire guidelines papers are just that...It stands to reason if I were involved in the production of tire  or any other manufacturing process I would do my darndest to protect my product...and after severe testing  to destruction I would cut that figure in half just to ensure I wouldn't be sued or whatever..stupid people do stupid things and there are a lot of them out there!

Larry N.

  • ---
  • Posts: 4474
  • Westminster, CO
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2017, 02:12:25 PM »
Your choice, of course -- I just hope you're not underinflating. Good luck.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL
  de N8GGG

WILDEBILL308

  • ---
  • Posts: 2415
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2017, 10:38:42 PM »
"So who else would I go to other than my Goodyear tire expert...They have dealt with HD tires for at least the last 50 years I know for sure"
So please explain to us how, without knowing what your axel weights are he would think it is ok to run 65psi? You are running 245 70 R19.5 load range "G" right? Did you know that  your experts who have dealt with HD tires for at least the last 50 years say 80 psi is the lowest recommended pressure to run that tire? That at that pressure it can only safely carry 3415 as a duel and 3640 on a single application. WHAT DOES YOUR COACH WEIGH AT ALL WHEEL LOCATIONS? Use the heaviest side to set the tire pressure for that axel. If you can't get all 4 corners weigh each axel and use that weight to set pressure. There is something You need to (seriously) check on if your coach is 19,000 lbs and divided by 4 that = 4750 per corner but we all know they aren't balanced like that. But that is why it is so important to get actual weights. if you had a front tire carrying 4750 that is more than a load range "G " can handle at any pressure, you would need a "H" at near max psi. I didn't add in tong weight from your trailer.
https://www.goodyeartrucktires.com/pdf/resources/publications/2010_loadinflation.pdf
One other thing about that statement about your warranty?
"the end result was arrived at by miles driven and was totally approved with full warranties for my particular application..." 
You might want to read the exclusions in your warranty paperwork. Improper inflation, overloading, high-speed spinup, misapplication, misuse, negligence, racing, chain damage, or improper mounting or demounting. Are not covered. They expect you to be smart enough to keep your tiers properly inflated.
 Just trying to keep you safe.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

reniram

  • ---
  • Posts: 51
  • 2013 Winnebago 26HE Vista F53 V10
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2017, 08:54:11 AM »
Wildbill...do you go to bed each night with a burr under your bed?   Is this all you have...get a life ...or a job or something!!

HappyWanderer

  • ---
  • Posts: 1568
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2017, 09:06:54 AM »
Wildbill...do you go to bed each night with a burr under your bed?   Is this all you have...get a life ...or a job or something!!

Wow. Just wow.

He offered solid advice on keeping you and your family safe from what is probably a foolish decision on your part.

Isn't the Internet wonderful?
I don't have gray hair. I have wisdom highlights.

Charlie 5320

  • ---
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2017, 10:20:38 AM »

reniram
You are running YOUR tires severely under inflated according to Good Years inflation guide. If you want to put your familys  life in jeopardy that's YOUR business, but DON'T get nasty with people that are trying to help. You are NOT helping however, you are just giving YOUR opinion. YOUR tires have a minimum inflation of 80 psi according the Good Year, NOT some flunky installing tires YOU call an expert. Good day.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 10:24:52 AM by Charlie 5320 »
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

hedhunter9

  • ---
  • Posts: 150
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2017, 08:10:42 PM »
Charlie,
   It depends on which tire he has.. Goodyear chart shows 70psi as the lowest for the G670 tires in his size..
Bob
Bob n Sharon
2008 Outlaw 37' Toyhauler
2 Yamaha Majesty's
Northern Indiana

Charlie 5320

  • ---
  • Posts: 1995
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2017, 09:12:02 PM »
Charlie,
   It depends on which tire he has.. Goodyear chart shows 70psi as the lowest for the G670 tires in his size..
Bob
Not according to this chart. 80 psi is the lowest for his size and the heavier tire shows 85 psi the way I read it.
https://www.goodyeartrucktires.com/pdf/resources/publications/2010_loadinflation.pdf

My coach weighs 19800 and I run 85 psi on a 22.5 much heavier tire. I'm certainly going to run a bit more not less than recommended.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 09:17:28 PM by Charlie 5320 »
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

A Traveler

  • ---
  • Posts: 106
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2017, 10:27:27 PM »
Reniram, you are a piece of work to be sure. Wildebill308 gives you some SOLID and ACCURATE advice...and you tell him to stick it? Wow.

When you roll your coach into the ditch because one of your 65 psi tires blows, I won't feel sorry for you. And I'll just keep on driving...  (:(

WinterAdverse

  • ---
  • Posts: 20
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2017, 07:04:16 PM »
Back to the handling and the CHF. I took the MH out today for about a 50 mile test drive. This is the 1st time out since I did the CHF on the rear and I was impressed with the difference it made. I was able to cruise along the interstate at 65 mph without any trouble. I need to mention that there was no wind and very little traffic this afternoon. I was passed by only two semis and I noticed a little push from them but nothing like before the CHF. I did notice the MH tended to wander some, like it wasn't sure which rut to ride in. Based on today I'm thinking I will next do a steering stabilizer to try to reduce the rutting. Still haven't done the CHF on the font and am not sure I need it.  Also want to see how a steering stabilizer performs before I go ahead with the rear track bar. Just a followup in case anyone was wondering.
2017 Thor Hurricane 31S
Towing 2013 Honda CRV
Home - Western SD

phil-t

  • ---
  • Posts: 65
  • Here For The Duration
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2017, 06:55:48 AM »
Well, we are 300 miles into a 1k mile round trip to the Maine coast and back home this week.
I have deployed the CHF, front and rear, and added a DIY rear track-bar.
Most of the day was on State and US 2-lane roads. Winds were across the road at 20-25mph with gusts to 50! I was apprehensive about even leaving the front yard yesterday afternoon.
The coach was managegable, not a ton of fun but managegable, able to keep it in my lane.
Happy with the handling, was my first experience in the wind with this beast. Big semis had next to no affect while being passed on I89 and meeting on the 2-lane roads.

One thing I do notice is the air turbulance when a semi pulls in front of me after passing. Don't think there is much to do about that - maybe a steering stabilizer?

On my todo list for this winter, while waiting for some decent weather and heading west for 3 months in May, are a couple things: Going to add a DIY steering stabilizer and extend the the front swaybar links (3"), change out all the swaybar and link bushings, new house batteries and solar system; and maybe some other maintenace items like engine belt(s) and hoses.
Solar for boondocking. We enjoy that way more than the busy campground life. Don't seem to have any problem finding a waste dump site and water when needed.
We are "Happy Campers".
2010 Winnebago Vista 32K on an '09 F53 22K Ford V-10 gas chassis.
2014 Cadillac SRX in tow.
CHF, DIY rear TrackBar

WILDEBILL308

  • ---
  • Posts: 2415
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2017, 10:42:04 AM »
"Going to add a DIY steering stabilizer and extend the the front swaybar links (3"), change out all the sway bar and link bushings"
Phil, changing the bushings will help(use the polyurethane bushings) they are stiffer. Hearer is one source although I bought a set at the local parts store.
 http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/?utm_source=bingads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=EnergySearch&utm_campaign=EnergySearch
I don't understand what "extend the the front swaybar links (3")" is going to do to improve handling, help me out here.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

phil-t

  • ---
  • Posts: 65
  • Here For The Duration
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2017, 02:11:40 PM »
Bill, with the links in the CHF (inner) holes of the swaybar, I feel the geometry of the bar and links is too straight. Don't think it will help the handling but will make me feel better. :)
2010 Winnebago Vista 32K on an '09 F53 22K Ford V-10 gas chassis.
2014 Cadillac SRX in tow.
CHF, DIY rear TrackBar

WILDEBILL308

  • ---
  • Posts: 2415
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2017, 10:27:33 AM »
Bill, with the links in the CHF (inner) holes of the swaybar, I feel the geometry of the bar and links is too straight. Don't think it will help the handling but will make me feel better. :)

Just so we are on the same page. All the links do is connect the end of the sway bar, torsion bar to the coach. I would think the straighter the better. All the "work" is done in the larger diameter of the bar where it resist the torsional movement.
This is why moving to the inner holes improves handling you are shortening the leaver. Thatis also why stiffer bushings work as they deflect less under load.
I feel the more angle the more chance for the links to bend/deflect and reduce the performance of the setup.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

phil-t

  • ---
  • Posts: 65
  • Here For The Duration
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2017, 02:33:19 PM »
Just so we are on the same page. All the links do is connect the end of the sway bar, torsion bar to the coach. I would think the straighter the better. All the "work" is done in the larger diameter of the bar where it resist the torsional movement.
This is why moving to the inner holes improves handling you are shortening the leaver. Thatis also why stiffer bushings work as they deflect less under load.
I feel the more angle the more chance for the links to bend/deflect and reduce the performance of the setup.
Bill

Yes. But when the links are moved to the inner holes in the bar ends, it puts them more in line with them rathan working as the did before the change, at a more direct push/pull on the bar.  I'll give the new bushings a try first.
2010 Winnebago Vista 32K on an '09 F53 22K Ford V-10 gas chassis.
2014 Cadillac SRX in tow.
CHF, DIY rear TrackBar

WinterAdverse

  • ---
  • Posts: 20
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2017, 04:07:20 PM »
Phil-T: It sounds like your saying when the end links are connected to the inside holes of the sway bar that because of the angle required to make the connection the end links effectively become an extension of the sway bar and increase the overall length of the sway bar, moving the sway bar end to the frame. Am I understanding that correctly?
2017 Thor Hurricane 31S
Towing 2013 Honda CRV
Home - Western SD

phil-t

  • ---
  • Posts: 65
  • Here For The Duration
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2017, 05:09:25 PM »
Not quite that bad but yes, that is what I mean.
So to connect the existing end links, the bar needs to be turned upward; thus making that angle from the bar to the link "straighter".

Phil-T: It sounds like your saying when the end links are connected to the inside holes of the sway bar that because of the angle required to make the connection the end links effectively become an extension of the sway bar and increase the overall length of the sway bar, moving the sway bar end to the frame. Am I understanding that correctly?
2010 Winnebago Vista 32K on an '09 F53 22K Ford V-10 gas chassis.
2014 Cadillac SRX in tow.
CHF, DIY rear TrackBar

WinterAdverse

  • ---
  • Posts: 20
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2017, 03:10:03 PM »
I had not looked at the front CHP from that perspective but that sure makes sense, at least to me. That would also explain why the rear CHF is more effective. The rear sway bar actually had to be lowered a bit to connect the links to the inside holes thereby moving the sway bar arms further away from the plane of the links and actually making the sway bar's working area shorter.
2017 Thor Hurricane 31S
Towing 2013 Honda CRV
Home - Western SD

phil-t

  • ---
  • Posts: 65
  • Here For The Duration
Re: Class A Handling issues
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2017, 04:56:08 PM »
Just looks to me that in the CHF position - the torsional action of the swaybar might be changed some to "push/pull" action against the swaybar mount points.  Maybe a trivial notion and then, maybe all chassis (weight ratings) are not of the same design; so some CHF implementations may not appear to be like mine.  I think the swaybars are the same but maybe not the axles/suspensions.
I'll be back home this Sunday and will see about getting a couple PICs of what I am talking about.
2010 Winnebago Vista 32K on an '09 F53 22K Ford V-10 gas chassis.
2014 Cadillac SRX in tow.
CHF, DIY rear TrackBar

 

Hosted by Over The Network