New vs Used and depreciation

[slam308]

So I went to an RV show this past weekend with a friend of mine that has her own TT.  I listened to all the advice I got on this forum and just focused on floor plan as opposed to manufacturer and found my new "love 98% of it" favorite.
My question...the floor plan is only 3 years old, I believe.  I've seen a used 2015 listed for $75k and the new 2017 is being offered at $78k.  I'd convinced myself to only look at used, but in this case, does that really make sense?
I'm not a math whiz at all, so I'm looking for opinions.

As an aside, my friend taught me a valuable lesson when RV shopping...sit on the couch!  That was the first thing she did in every one we looked at.  I was debating between two different manufacturers with similar floor plans and then I went back to both and did what she said.  Definite difference!  We had a clear winner.  One couch was way more comfortable than the other and had higher, more comfortable arm rests.  I could picture lounging out in the evening playing on the computer, reading a book or watching a movie.  The other felt like I was sitting in a chair in a doctor's waiting room.

[SeilerBird]

Asking price has not much bearing on selling price. Most used RVs are priced way too high due to people getting in over their head and ending up upside down and from not reading NADA properly. What model are you looking at?

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Assuming those really are near-identical rigs, then it appears the owner of the used one is asking an unrealistic price.  The seller can ask whatever he wants - doesn't mean anybody will pay it. And who knows, maybe some really naive buyer will compare it only to the MSRP of a new one and overpay...

[99dart]

Try not to get excited and buy the first one you see. Keep looking at ad's on rvtrader or craigslist. You might just find that sweet deal out there! 

[JudyJB]

Great that you have found a floor plan you love!  I was a little confused about the two units.  Was the new one offered at $78 the same model but just two years newer?  Also, was the 2017 model used or has it been sitting on a dealer's lot somewhere?  If so, you ought to be able to get a really, really good deal on it. 

One thing about buying new is that you can call around and compare prices if you can find that model at another dealer.  Also, you should be able to negotiate about 25% off manufcturer's list price.   

[NCSU Dad]

slam308 where you at the Greensboro NC show? Just asking because we were there.

After two shows we know what would be the ideal floorplan and what we would settle for. We noticed significant differences in upholstery among manufactures. I don't know if upholstery is a significant price point or the overall sign of less quality. Thank goodness drive-train & chassis are standard & by others and not something conjured up by the RV builder. I view cushions & couch as something replaceable. First and foremost I want as much quality as my wallet can bear.

Speaking of quality, we were standing at the foot of a bed looking towards the head. It was obvious one person had trimmed out the left side of the cabinetry and a second person had trimmed out the right side. Right side nicely done. Left side cut and fitted by an amateur.

[Gary RV_Wizard]

We noticed significant differences in upholstery among manufactures. I don't know if upholstery is a significant price point or the overall sign of less quality.

One of the most common ways to shave some cost.  Relatively few people have the eye to detect quality differences in new upholstery (or flooring either), particularly when overwhelmed with the bling in a new RV.  The lack of quality usually becomes evident in a few years, though. Cabinetry finish and construction is another giveaway if you pay attention to it. The range is all the way from real hardwoods to wood veneer over plywood to paper or vinyl over MDF.

[slam308]

The model is the Thor Chateau/Four Winds 31W.  I saw a new (leftover) 2017 at the RV show in Wildwood, NJ for $78K and a used 2015 (dealer listing) for $75K.  I believe I found the used one on rvtrader.  At the time, I only searched the eastern states.  I just checked again nationwide and found the lowest listed price for a used one is $65K.  MSRP is $115K, give or take a thousand, depending on options.

I'm not in any rush, but wondered what the opinions were once I saw the numbers.  I really like that the leftover has cloth sofa/dinette cushions as I don't think leatherette will hold up to the toe nails of a 165+ lb. dog.  And I KNOW he's going to make himself at home on the furniture. 

[slam308]

Oops...just realized where I found the used 31W.  It was on rvt.com and is was $70K, not $75K.  It's listed by a dealer in PA.

Checked Craigslist (never thought of that before) and they've got nothing.

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Sounds like an aggressively discounted price on the 2017, about what you would get if you had bargained hard at another dealer.  If the 2017 really is new (never titled and only delivery mileage on it), it's probably worth the $8k difference to get a new warranty and two years less depreciation.  Obviously  the larger C's are in demand and don't depreciate too badly!

Note that the 2018 Chateaus are coming available, so that 2017 price has to reflect a year of depreciation even though it is "new".

[slam308]

Good to hear, Gary.  Like I said, I'm not ready and not in a rush, but it's nice to know it'd be a smart choice if it's still there when I am able to make the leap.

[blw2]

I was faced with a very similar decision.
DW and I were window shopping when she found "the one" sitting on a dealer lot
Used 2013 model 31L.  Low miles and low use from the looks of it.  She loved everything except the fabric couch
So we negotiated
 back and forth a few times till they would come down no more.... then a few more times trying to get stuff instead of money...so I feel confident it was about as low as they were going to go.
DW put down a small deposit.
Then I did some more research to make sure it was a good deal.  Found a brand new 2013 model, identical except it had the faux leather couch she wanted.  It was sitting on a dealer lot a few hours away.  After a bit of long distance negotiation I got it down to not much more than the used one....  they didn't come down much, already asking a discounted price since they needed it to move.  It had been sitting on the lot a long time.

In hind sight I think the fabric sofa would have been better, but overall I'm glad we did the new one.....but I've often wondered would the other have been better?  Was it a lemon?  Would it not have had as many issues that I had to work through.  Was the back wall rotted through like the new one?

[slam308]

Was the back wall rotted through like the new one?

WHAT???  On the new one???

I just got the pics that my friend took on her phone when we were at the show.  Funny, the "show" price was $79,999 and the current price on the dealer's website is $78,250.  Guess they figured if it didn't go at the show, they'd better lower it some more.

Three more things, I've heard that loan interest payments may be deductible since it's a wholly self-contained domicile.  I've got to check in to that.
Also, this particular dealer is located in a lower tax zone so I'd save $5k in sales tax versus buying it at another dealer in the state. 
Also, also, waiting for my copy of The Complete Idiots Guide to RVing.  Should be here tomorrow...can't wait.

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Yes, interest on an RV loan qualifies as a home mortgage under federal tax rules and thus is eligible to be deducted [if you itemize]. 

In most states the sales tax is determined based on where the buyer resides, not the seller. The tax is often calculated based on the address shown on the vehicle title. You might want to check the tax laws in your state before you spend that extra $5k. 

The only price that means anything is the "out-the-door" price, so check each dealers offer for extra charges such as dealer fees, PDI or prep fees, etc. The advertised price is often not the whole picture.

[Larry N.]

Yes, interest on an RV loan qualifies as a home mortgage under federal tax rules and thus is eligible to be deducted [if you itemize]. 

Generally speaking that is true, but check with your tax advisor, since there are certain circumstances where that may not be true -- for instance if you agree to a loan for the dealer (as we mistakenly did) to gain a slight monetary advantage, then after a short time replace that with a loan from your preferred bank.

So be careful.

[NCSU Dad]

A salesman told me the RV might qualify under a second home deduction provision. If you already own a second it is not eligible. He also said see your tax advisor.

[Gary RV_Wizard]

LOL! I said it is eligible, not whether any specific person should try to utilize it!    There are possible reasons why you cannot take any eligible itemized deduction, starting with required use of Schedule A and continuing on through various limitations on home mortgage deductions. There are also considerations as to why it may not be a wise choice for any given person.   You should always "consult your tax advisor" about the wisdom of any tax choice. But all that notwithstanding, an RV qualifies as a residence for the purpose of the home mortgage deduction, so the interest on the RV loan definitely could be deducted if you so choose.

[slam308]

If we did decide to get this motorhome this month or next, that brings up a couple more questions.

My next planned trip, besides tomorrow, isn't until April.  I'm thinking I'd drive the mh to work a couple days a month just to keep things moving. 
I'd also like to do the "live in the driveway" thing for a week when I first get it just to get to know how things work. 
I don't recall seeing anything about the vehicle already having been winterized.  Is it the same process, or close enough, as a travel trailer?  My friend that went to the show with me would probably be willing to come over and walk me through the process since it's my first time.  She just did her tt, but has never had a motorhome.
If it has been winterized already, is it worth unwinterizing (is that a word?) just to try it for a week and then re-winterizing it again?

At this point, I'd almost tell myself to wait until next spring, but I think the price is making me think I'd be better off not waiting.
We've had one morning with light frost on the windows, but it can be fairly nice through most of December.  I'm in NJ, about 40 min. NE of Philly.

Still not sure we're going to make the leap, but just covering all the questions.
(I feel like a Jack in the Box, bouncing all over the place!) 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Winterizing is the same process, but the system may be a little more complex in a newer motorhome. For example, the fridge has an icemaker with a water line, plus I think its a residential fridge. So everything is essentially the same, but maybe more of it.

[slam308]

Thanks Gary.
(Didn't have a computer with me the past couple days, wasn't being ignorant by not replying.)

I'll get my friend to help if needed.