Hi. Hope someone can put things in perspective. Running into this dilemma of towing capacity vs tongue weights and trailer towed. My truck is 2012 Toyota Tundra 5.7L V8 4x4 with towing capacity of 9,700 lbs. tongue weight is 1,030 and class 4 hitch/receiver. Rear axle 4,150 front 4,000 and truck itself is 7,100 with 16,000 gross combined. Trailer is palomino solaire ultra super light 318tsbhk and is 35 ft long. Dry weight is 7,125 plus cargo and all. I estimate about 1,000 in extra cargo and stuff. I also use weight distribution with 14,000 max towing and 1,400 max tongue. My dilemma is if I have enough of truck for this trailer. Camping dealers think yes. I want to know if I am exceeding tongue weight and if so what does that really mean or does to the truck. Any other information needed or photos of anything, let me know. Thanks!
Towing limits exceeded?
- Thread starter Barak
- Start date
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First- Camper dealers will tell folks their truck can pull anything on the lot just to make the sale. Some just flat out lie, and some really don't know the first thing about towing a trailer.
Truck-The infamous "yellow sticker" on the B pillar when you open the driver's door should have the payload for your particular truck on it. We need that number. Or load your truck with the passengers and stuff that you will be hauling when you are pulling the camper, and get a scale weight.
The GVWR for that trailer is 8890#. We generally go by that number in determining if a particular truck can safely pull it. The tongue weight should be 10 to 15% of the loaded weight of the trailer. Assuming fully loaded, that's 890 to 1335# of tongue weight. I know you said you figure on about a 1000# of gear, but are you positive about that? Before all is said and done, you will probably end up loading the trailer to the max.
Another issue is the length of the trailer. That's a lot of sail behind a half ton truck. I pulled a Salem Hemisphere 272RLIS behind a 2013 Ram 1500, using a well tweeked in Reese Dual Cam WDH, and had no issues, but your experience may be different. I had to limit my total trailer weight to about 8200#.
Truck-The infamous "yellow sticker" on the B pillar when you open the driver's door should have the payload for your particular truck on it. We need that number. Or load your truck with the passengers and stuff that you will be hauling when you are pulling the camper, and get a scale weight.
The GVWR for that trailer is 8890#. We generally go by that number in determining if a particular truck can safely pull it. The tongue weight should be 10 to 15% of the loaded weight of the trailer. Assuming fully loaded, that's 890 to 1335# of tongue weight. I know you said you figure on about a 1000# of gear, but are you positive about that? Before all is said and done, you will probably end up loading the trailer to the max.
Another issue is the length of the trailer. That's a lot of sail behind a half ton truck. I pulled a Salem Hemisphere 272RLIS behind a 2013 Ram 1500, using a well tweeked in Reese Dual Cam WDH, and had no issues, but your experience may be different. I had to limit my total trailer weight to about 8200#.
muskoka guy
Well-known member
I have the same truck with a tow package. I think my tow capacity is 10400. I tow my boat which is a 24 ft cabin cruiser. It weighs around 7500 lbs. It pulls it fine, but sure sucks back the fuel when towing it. I dont think I would want to pull much more unless only for short trips. My brother in laws friend brought up a brand new 34 ft camper behind a dodge ram a few weeks back. It had the truck squatted pretty good. Looked like too much camper for a half ton. I also have another friend who pulls a new 32 ft behind a ford f150. They only go for short trips, but it also looks like they could use a bigger truck. If you only plan on short trips of a few hours, and can wait not to travel if it is too windy, you might be alright. If you plan on going cross country, I would suggest a smaller trailer or bigger truck.The number crunchers will be along shortly to give you the specifics. Happy camping.
Thanks all. This is very good information and discussion. The payload is 1,640 but there is also yellow sticker shows 7,078 and says that is the weight of truck since it had to be modified like they added running boards. I have been getting different answers by camping dealers and all and I agree 100-% that camper dealer will tell us anything just to purchase a trailer. However, I would say that no way I out more than 1000 lbs in cargo and all added to dry weight of trailer. I did weight trailer hitch weight as empty now and comes to about 210 lbs. My question is when measuring tongue do I go 10% or 15%? You probably have crew cab and they are able to tow little more vs double cab SR5 TRD Off Rd. I also contacted Toyota and they said not to exceed 10% of truck?s tow weight on tongue weight. So for me it would be 970 lbs max to place on tongue weight. However I am confused with the rear axle and its weight of 4,150.
Joezeppy
Well-known member
This seems very light - almost impossible, actually. With a dry weight of 7,125, I would expect a tongue weight of about 700 lbs. Most trailers have about a 10% tongue weight when empty.Barak said:
I have never heard this before. Typically you want to shoot for AT LEAST 10% tongue weight to avoid trailer sway. Your truck's manual will have section on towing which should list the max tongue weight for both Weight Carrying and Weight Distributing hitches.Barak said:
marcortez
Well-known member
Something is drastically wrong with such a light unloaded tongue weight.
How do you get to the universally accepted 10% minimum tongue weight?
Not to offend you in the least......but it concerns me greatly that some people tow a long trailer that loads up a half ton pickup to near max.
Unless I am seriously out of the loop on modern pickups, a half ton has smaller brakes, smaller suspension components, including a smaller spring pack and a smaller weight capacity axle......6 lug wheels vs 8 lugs......smaller radiator, less robust transmissions and even possibly (I am not sure) frame structure.
Sure enough, one can get a heavy trailer moving down the road, keep it moving down the road and do just fine.
Now you have to come to a stop....often a hard brake situation......bumps and ruts putting huge stress forces on the tow vehicle components and now the winds come up and you're faced with a long pull up a grade.
I have been (famous last words) through this before....with a half ton Ford F-150 pulling a trailer that is 6 feet shorter and 1500# lighter than yours.
Yes I made it to my destination ok.....several times actually.
It's just not a relaxing, easy drive.
After six months of jaunting around the mountain west, I traded the half ton for a 3/4 ton with a Cummins diesel.
Now it feels as if the truck is in control, rather than the trailer controlling the truck.
IMO, and it's not worth very much...I think you have too much trailer for a half ton truck.
How do you get to the universally accepted 10% minimum tongue weight?
Not to offend you in the least......but it concerns me greatly that some people tow a long trailer that loads up a half ton pickup to near max.
Unless I am seriously out of the loop on modern pickups, a half ton has smaller brakes, smaller suspension components, including a smaller spring pack and a smaller weight capacity axle......6 lug wheels vs 8 lugs......smaller radiator, less robust transmissions and even possibly (I am not sure) frame structure.
Sure enough, one can get a heavy trailer moving down the road, keep it moving down the road and do just fine.
Now you have to come to a stop....often a hard brake situation......bumps and ruts putting huge stress forces on the tow vehicle components and now the winds come up and you're faced with a long pull up a grade.
I have been (famous last words) through this before....with a half ton Ford F-150 pulling a trailer that is 6 feet shorter and 1500# lighter than yours.
Yes I made it to my destination ok.....several times actually.
It's just not a relaxing, easy drive.
After six months of jaunting around the mountain west, I traded the half ton for a 3/4 ton with a Cummins diesel.
Now it feels as if the truck is in control, rather than the trailer controlling the truck.
IMO, and it's not worth very much...I think you have too much trailer for a half ton truck.
Where it says "combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed", that gives you your available payload as delivered from the factory. From that number, you must subtract the weight of the passengers, any cargo, the weight of the spray-in bedliner you installed, the junk, stuff you normally carry in the truck, wife's purse, etc. What is left over is the amount of available payload. Your tongue weight and the weight of the WDH cannot exceed this number.
No worries, you?re not offending in any way. This is good information for me to consider while I am speculating if I need to upgrade to a 3/4 ton truck. My tundra has class 4 hitch which allows for at least 3,500 lbs tong weight if not even up to 5,000 lbs. Rear gear ratio is 4.30 with tow package tested just like any other brands. Owners manual says for conventional trailer the gross trailer weight should be distributed so that the tongue weight is 9-11%. And it says if using Wad system, which I am, that front axle is returned to same weight as before trailer connected. I am getting that, however the rear saggs about 2 inches down from original hight.
marcortez
Well-known member
Barak said:
Thank you......now could you talk to us about 210# unloaded tongue weight on the trailer?
How do you get to the accepted minimum of 10%?....which would be in the 700# range?
Toyota is saying not to exceed 10% on tongue. I used bathroom scale and tips from etrailer.com and was getting approximately 210 when empty. You have a point for sure and because it doesn?t make sense to me that?s why I am soliciting help here and anyone with past experience LoL. Thanks!
marcortez
Well-known member
Barak said:
Now we're making progress.......a bathroom scale.
I think you should be confident that the manufacturer of your trailer is not going to make such a huge error, as to have the empty tongue weight bouncing around 200>#
So that leaves the means of weighing that tongue weight highly suspect.
There is a method of weighing the tongue weight at a CAT scale but I am unfamiliar on how to do this.
Or as an option, but it will cost you some clams to get one......a scale made specifically for tongue weights.
You seem concerned enough to be questioning the weight......so now go a step up and gain some peace of mind that the tongue weight is where it should be.
Lol. I am concerned because I want to figure this out to determine if I need to upgrade to 3-4 ton truck. As for bathroom scale, I used a digital one which could have thrown numbers off but got analog one and will measurw with that. I did see a tongue scale at etraer.com but I thought I would give it a try with bathroom first. I also thought solicitating thru here would hep me calculate the numbers before investing in etrailer?s scale.
Barak said:
In the end, that is probably what I would end up recommending. And if spending the money, you may as well go a one-ton. Only costs a bit more than a 3/4. And be careful of a lot of the 3/4 ton trucks. Check that yellow sticker I have been talking about, and you will find some 3/4 tons severely lacking in the payload department. Those 3/4 and one ton trucks with diesels also have less available payload from the factory, as diesels weigh more than gas engines.
Remember, a tow vehicle not only has to be able pull a trailer, it has to carry the tongue weight or in the case of a fifth wheel, the pin weight.
