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Author Topic: Thetford toilet issue  (Read 850 times)

martin2340

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Thetford toilet issue
« on: November 02, 2017, 11:32:50 AM »
Well I got to talking and forgot that I had left the hose running in the cleanout line until I heard a scream from DW that something popped in the bathroom and water was staring to come out. Shut off water cleaned up small mess, sanitized with bleach and thought all was well. Next person to sit on toilet said it was wobbling. Well I just took it apart and the black ring attached to the floor was raised and had some cracks. I purchased a new one but I am unable to get the old one off. The new one has a screw on type. I tried unscrewing, prying, breaking apart but to no avail. I have it hit with a hammer, tried to drive it counterclockwise and it won't budge. Any ideas how to get this off. It also appears to have glue on it.
Joe
Joe & Mari from Sanatoga PA
2010 F-150 Lariat 4X4 Heavy Duty Tow package(gone 7-17)
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SargeW

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2017, 11:48:28 AM »
Usually a closet flange is not glued down, just screwed to the sub floor.  But looking at the pic the funnel part is not damaged. Unless its cracked, I would just dry out the floor, put some silicone on the surface cracks on the flange, and put new screws into the flange to secure it to the floor. The toilet will have a rubber seal that seals against the flange to make it water tight. Simply replacing the closet flange will not make it not wobble. The screws holding it to the floor do that.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2017, 12:31:59 PM »
The so-called mobile home type closet (floor) flange is threaded onto the drain pipe and may also be screwed to the floor.  I suppose it is possible some overzealous assembly line guy put some pipe glue on the fitting (but I hope not!).   If you can't get it out, maybe a couple screws to hold the old flange tighter to the floor would be sufficient?   

The toilet bowl has bolts that tie it to the flange, so having the flange firmly attached is important. However, I suspect the water pressure under it simply lifted it away from the seal between bowl and flange, and a new seal and tightening down the bolts would do the trick unless the bolt slots on the flange have actually broken loose. Couldn't tell for sure in the photo.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
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OBX

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2017, 12:36:04 PM »
Sorry for your problem but I have wondered what could happen if I accidentally did this. 

ChasA

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2017, 06:58:05 PM »
Rude or not, do not talk to anyone while you're flushing your black tank. I have read war stories of people who did exactly what you did. If someone wants to talk to me while I'm flushing, I cut them off go shut the water off... Rude? Yes. Regrets... none.
Apex, NC
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NewmanRacing

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2017, 08:14:03 AM »
Rude or not, do not talk to anyone while you're flushing your black tank. I have read war stories of people who did exactly what you did. If someone wants to talk to me while I'm flushing, I cut them off go shut the water off... Rude? Yes. Regrets... none.

I love this place. Tips such as this can save us from many woes!
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Alfa38User

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 09:40:50 AM »
This sounds like an echo!!! I can still remember well that same yell from inside the trailer after getting distracted while flushing the black tank. You are not alone.

The flange on my toilet pipe is molded as part and parcel of the upper most section of the pipe itself and it is glued into the pipe below. As a result, I had to modify it by cutting slots in order to fit a new bolt pattern when I replaced the original toilet.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 09:43:55 AM by Alfa38User »
Stu
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"Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advise!!!"

martin2340

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2017, 02:36:25 PM »

The flange on my toilet pipe is molded as part and parcel of the upper most section of the pipe itself and it is glued into the pipe below. As a result, I had to modify it by cutting slots in order to fit a new bolt pattern when I replaced the original toilet.
Thanks Alpha38 that is exactly what this appears to be, glued to the down pipe. I purchased a new ring and it is threaded indeed. I tried rescrewing the old one down and thought I had it pretty secure. I put the toilet back on bolted the 2 side screws as tight as possible and it still wobbled which I did not have before. I am now afraid to use a grinder to remove it as I will not have anything to screw the new one down to. I have broken a piece of the old one off trying to unscrew and/or pry up and off. Won't budge.
This job stinks >:(
Joe & Mari from Sanatoga PA
2010 F-150 Lariat 4X4 Heavy Duty Tow package(gone 7-17)
2017 F-250 Lariat 4X4 6.7 turbo diesel
2014 Sunset Trail 32rl
2002 Pearl White Road King Classic
Homebase: SE PA Sanatoga I can see the Limerick Power Plant from here

Alfa38User

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 04:30:23 PM »
Have you tried lifting it a bit once the screes have been moved from the floor hold down??. If it will lift, you could cut a circular plastic/plywood spacer in half, fit it under the ring, and screw right through it into the floor using longer screws. Alternately, try using bigger screws in different hold down spots where possible. (Thinking that the original hold down screws may come loose immediately when toilet is moved due to some soft/rotten wood in that spot)
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
Alfa Gold 38 (2000) 5ver (parked!)

"Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advise!!!"

Rene T

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 04:43:19 PM »
Have you tried lifting it a bit once the screes have been moved from the floor hold down??. If it will lift, you could cut a circular plastic/plywood spacer in half, fit it under the ring, and screw right through it into the floor using longer screws. Alternately, try using bigger screws in different hold down spots where possible. (Thinking that the original hold down screws may come loose immediately when toilet is moved due to some soft/rotten wood in that spot)

If you're going to try and add a shim under the flange, you could get one of these at Home Depot and cut it in two.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Chief-Stainless-Steel-Flange-Repair-Ring-886-MR/202274075

A couple of years ago, I helped a friend repair his toilet. We had to remove the ring and found that the pipe it was glued to, was actually threaded into a flange on top of the tank. He just went to a local RV store and purchased a new toilet flange and a  short length of pipe which was threaded on one end. We just then had to figure what the length had to be, cut it and glued the flange onto it. Then we just screwed it back into the tank and kept turning it until the flange was oriented just right.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 04:48:46 PM by Rene T »
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
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martin2340

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2017, 12:02:07 PM »
Thanks for all of the tips. I tried again yesterday to no avail as it seems to be glued to the down pipe which appears to be about 4 or 5" in length. I know if I keep prying that I am going to wind up regretting what I have done. It looks like a trip to the local Camper repair shop.
I have used different screw locations, I have it down as solid as it can go. I put the toilet back on and it still rocks, as it seems as though the toilet does not rest completely on the floor. I have tightened the toilet bolts as tight as I could without breaking the toilet but still wobbles.
Joe & Mari from Sanatoga PA
2010 F-150 Lariat 4X4 Heavy Duty Tow package(gone 7-17)
2017 F-250 Lariat 4X4 6.7 turbo diesel
2014 Sunset Trail 32rl
2002 Pearl White Road King Classic
Homebase: SE PA Sanatoga I can see the Limerick Power Plant from here

Rene T

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2017, 03:33:10 PM »
Thanks for all of the tips. I tried again yesterday to no avail as it seems to be glued to the down pipe which appears to be about 4 or 5" in length. I know if I keep prying that I am going to wind up regretting what I have done. It looks like a trip to the local Camper repair shop.
I have used different screw locations, I have it down as solid as it can go. I put the toilet back on and it still rocks, as it seems as though the toilet does not rest completely on the floor. I have tightened the toilet bolts as tight as I could without breaking the toilet but still wobbles.

Have you tried to unscrew the flange? Earlier I said a friend had a problem and we unscrewed the flange. The pipe came with it. It was threaded into a flange on top of the tank.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

martin2340

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2017, 08:52:39 AM »
Yes I have tried unscrewing as mentioned in most of my previous threads. It will not budge. The tt dealer said one of their mechanics uses a strap type oil filter removal tool. That did not work. It appears to be glued.
Joe & Mari from Sanatoga PA
2010 F-150 Lariat 4X4 Heavy Duty Tow package(gone 7-17)
2017 F-250 Lariat 4X4 6.7 turbo diesel
2014 Sunset Trail 32rl
2002 Pearl White Road King Classic
Homebase: SE PA Sanatoga I can see the Limerick Power Plant from here

SargeW

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2017, 04:53:42 PM »
In that case be leery of cranking too hard on that flange with a strap wrench. If it is indeed glued the last thing you want to do is snap that down pipe off at the tank. It may be best to just cut the pipe off with a Dremmel tool, and then glue a new pipe and flange in it's place.
Marty--
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martin2340

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2017, 07:31:21 AM »
That is what I am thinking Marty. Just trying to figure a way to do it without dropping too much into tank. I can stuff a towel down some and attach a rope or something similiar in case of an accidental drop. The new flange that is supposed to be for this model toilet is a screw on type and that is what has been throwing me off.
Joe & Mari from Sanatoga PA
2010 F-150 Lariat 4X4 Heavy Duty Tow package(gone 7-17)
2017 F-250 Lariat 4X4 6.7 turbo diesel
2014 Sunset Trail 32rl
2002 Pearl White Road King Classic
Homebase: SE PA Sanatoga I can see the Limerick Power Plant from here

OLDRACER

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2017, 05:47:46 PM »
Righty Tighty Lefty Loosey? ;D

Sorry, could not resist, hope you still have a sense of humor!!!

lynnmor

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2017, 07:31:37 AM »
My question would be; how did that much pressure build if the roof vent was working correctly?  The water should have simply flowed out onto the roof with possibly minor leaks in the toilet area.

Rene T

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2017, 07:46:25 AM »
My question would be; how did that much pressure build if the roof vent was working correctly?  The water should have simply flowed out onto the roof with possibly minor leaks in the toilet area.

I thought the same thing because it happened to me on our first 5v'r many years ago. The water went up the vent pipe and down the outside of the vent pipe right into the bathroom. Luckily it was clean water because I had flushed and dumped 2 or 3 times prior to this.
 Well the one we have now, that's not the case. Two years ago, I somewhat did it again. I was flushing the tank with my flusher. I typically let the flusher run until I would hear the sound of the water hitting the tank walls. Well, I stupidly walked away and forgot. Then there was a big bang because the tank blew.
To make a long story short, I called the tank manufacturer and they told me that they test the tanks only to 1 PSI before they ship them out. Then someone on this forum said something like for every foot of rise up the vent pipe, it increases the tank pressure by 1 PSI.  Don't quote me on the RISE/PSI numbers.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
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catblaster

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2017, 07:52:10 AM »
When we would install household and commercial toilets that had their flange too high the fix was to shim them up with strips of lead cut from flashing material the caulk the seam over them. It might be worth a try, the shims on the outside gave a wider base but of course the flange had to be securely fastened  to the floor first.

There were also closet bolts that did not go into the flange, instead they had an SAE thread on one end and a wood screw thread on the other. These screwed into the floor under the flange and was mostly used when the closet flange was broken. This probably would not work on a floor that had the thin piece of luan on it.

I have removed many glued on closet flanges by using a hacksaw blade and screwdriver. Cut the flange in several places at the glue joint but not into the pipe. Then uses the screwdriver as a chisel to drive between the two glued pieces. They almost always come off without damage tot he pipe.
Will and Jane
95 Winnebago Luxor

catblaster

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2017, 08:05:10 AM »
Then someone on this forum said something like for every foot of rise up the vent pipe, it increases the tank pressure by 1 PSI.  Don't quote me on the RISE/PSI numbers.

    One foot column of water equals .433 psi and one inch column of mercury equals .49 psi .  Figures we had to use back when I had a J O B.

    On the question of blowing the tank if the vents are working.  AAV's or air admittance valves,  only allow air to enter the pipe and not exit, this becomes a problem when they are used exclusively in a system. When a sticks and bricks building is plumbed our code requires atmospheric vents in the system, at least one and sometimes several.  Manufacturers claim that the diaphragm inside the AAV will not withstand the amount of pressure required to blow a tank.

   
Will and Jane
95 Winnebago Luxor

Rene T

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2017, 10:00:10 AM »
    One foot column of water equals .433 psi and one inch column of mercury equals .49 psi .  Figures we had to use back when I had a J O B.

So that would mean if the top of the vent pipe was about 8' above the tank, then I was pressurizing the tank about 4 PSI more than the factory tested the tank. No wonder they don't test them at a higher pressure. They would most likely blow everytime.
Thanks Will.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

martin2340

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2017, 03:35:06 PM »
Thanks for all of your replied as I plan to try and cut it off tomorrow. As far as the water travelling up the pipe I have not gone on the roof but it seems I always smell a sewer type odor but can't find where it is coming from. Now I am worried more so than before.
Joe & Mari from Sanatoga PA
2010 F-150 Lariat 4X4 Heavy Duty Tow package(gone 7-17)
2017 F-250 Lariat 4X4 6.7 turbo diesel
2014 Sunset Trail 32rl
2002 Pearl White Road King Classic
Homebase: SE PA Sanatoga I can see the Limerick Power Plant from here

martin2340

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2017, 08:11:51 AM »
Well I finally got the flange off after hours of carefully cutting with a reciprocating saw and chiseling the old glue off. As it turned out it was not a screw on type. It is now in excess of 100 broken up pieces. Now I don't know if I can ever get a new one on as it is very rough as the limited space to work with and the glue still stuck on may cause some issues. I have to order a new flange and see how things go from there. I think I may have to use a thin file to try and smooth it out.
The pop I think the family heard was the screws popping out of the sub floor as it appears it separated the plywood.
Joe & Mari from Sanatoga PA
2010 F-150 Lariat 4X4 Heavy Duty Tow package(gone 7-17)
2017 F-250 Lariat 4X4 6.7 turbo diesel
2014 Sunset Trail 32rl
2002 Pearl White Road King Classic
Homebase: SE PA Sanatoga I can see the Limerick Power Plant from here

SargeW

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 04:20:44 PM »
Use a Dremmel tool with a grinder/sander attachment. It should take the glue right off.
Marty--
2017 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40SP
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martin2340

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2017, 08:03:21 AM »
I was able to rig up what I believe was the only option. At my local TT dealer parts department I was able to get a sewer adapter that fit perfectly inside the existing downtube and it was threaded on top. I then found a closet flange with an inside thread pattern, screwed the 2 together, dropped them into the downtube and screwed down the closet flange. I used a little pipe dope around the top of the tube just in case and everything now works perfectly.
Again I wanted to thank every one for your suggestions.
Joe
Joe & Mari from Sanatoga PA
2010 F-150 Lariat 4X4 Heavy Duty Tow package(gone 7-17)
2017 F-250 Lariat 4X4 6.7 turbo diesel
2014 Sunset Trail 32rl
2002 Pearl White Road King Classic
Homebase: SE PA Sanatoga I can see the Limerick Power Plant from here

SargeW

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Re: Thetford toilet issue
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2017, 08:31:09 AM »
Nice MacGyver job Joe!
Marty--
2017 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40SP
Cummins ISL 450 HP/Powerglide chassis
Visit our new travel blog! http://www.mytripjournal.com/rvnchickTNG
Support your local Police Officer, Fire Fighter and Military!

 

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