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Author Topic: Purchasing a new truck  (Read 708 times)

garym1111

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Purchasing a new truck
« on: November 10, 2017, 06:39:03 PM »
I'm getting ready to purchase a new truck. I currently have a GMC Sierra with a 6.2L gas engine towing a 5th wheel that weighs about 10,000 lbs.

We are getting ready to retire in about a year so we're thinking we'll want a larger 5th wheel when that happens so I'm going to buy a diesel truck.

I have checked out both the Ford F350 and the GMC Sierra 3500 and I like the GMC a little bit better but it "only" tows 17200 lbs where the Ford tows over 23000 lbs.

Not to start any arguments  :) but I'd like to hear what people think that have driven these trucks. Anything that stands out about either one? Also, I'd like to hear about the mileage that people are getting.

Thanks!!!!
Gary
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 06:48:31 PM by garym1111 »

steveblonde

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 07:36:52 PM »
After 17 straight GM products i bought a Ford 350 dually nothing bad to say about GM other than they build "old man trucks for old men" - meaning they are very conservative. The duramax and allison is a solid combination no doubt but i needed a change, i like my Ford so far but -  i only have 3000 miles on it, the bells and whistles ie ALL LED lights, the camera in the box for the 5th wheel hitch, the other 5 cameras it has, the power tailgate that you can operate from inside the truck and a number of other things made me try a Ford

Good luck anyway you go they are all very close its personal preference
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 03:47:58 AM by steveblonde »
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2017 Ford Escape my Daily driver - first Ford in 25 yrs
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded (First Ford Truck after 17 GMs) 5200lbs cargo/weight capacity named Kong


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edjunior

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 08:11:37 PM »
SteveBlonde is correct.  It will come down to personal choice in the end.  I love my F-250, and I think the 6.7L is a beast.  My Dad was die hard Chevy, and wouldn't even look at a Ford for himself, yet when he rode with me, he really loved my truck.  After riding in the back of my Dads (after he passed away and my brother bought it), I can say for sure the Ford has much better leg room in the back seat (if you get the CrewCab).  It was quite crowded in the Chevy.  I wish you luck in this.  I suggest driving both as much as you can and get the one you end up feeling more comfortable with.
Ed.....KF5INW
2011 F-250 XLT, 6.7L PSD
2010 Forest River Wildcat 28RKBS
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BigLarry

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 08:24:29 PM »
I traded my 07Chevy Duramax for a 17 GMC with a Duramax last month.  I drove em all before I made the decision and had a tough decision between the Ford and GM.  I'm not a Dodge guy, so I never seriously considered one, however they make a fine truck.  They're all good nowdays and you just have to buy what you like.  I finally settled on the GMC because it had the exact equipment and color combination we wanted.  I leaned a little toward the GM product due to the trouble free nature of my 07, which had about 205,000 miles on it when I traded it in.  Once  you find out how well the Diesels perform towing, you'll never want to tow with anything else.  Just set the cruise and go.  Very comfortable towing.

My advice is to buy what you like.  No major problems with any of them and any of them should handle your trailer nicely.

Larry and Betty
Bryan, Texas
2017 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4x4 Diesel
2016 Cougar 28RLS

kdbgoat

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 05:59:42 AM »
Don't rule out a Ram 3500 either. Even if you decide against buying one, it would be a shame not to even check them out. Their 3500's are beasts. Gotta be careful on their 2500's though. I've seen some with dismal payloads for a 3/4 ton.
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Ernie n Tara

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 06:31:21 AM »
I expect that you know this, but its rarely towing capacity that is critical with a fiver. It seems that payload is the critical requirement and you do need to check carefully. Incidentally, 17, 000 lb is a really big fiver (pin weight will be around 4, 250 lb.)

Ernie
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 08:19:48 AM »
You need to take a closer look at the towing capacities - various configurations of either the Ford or GMC/Chevy (or Ram) trucks have widely different ratings and the GM trucks also go up to 23,200 lbs.  Many of the GMC 3500 configurations are rated 20k lbs or higher.  For either the Ford or the GM, the actual tow capacity of a nicely equipped F350/3500 is likley to be in the 14,000-19,000 range than the very highest numbers shown on the brochures and websites.  The optional equipment that makes them so comfortable also detracts from the max tow capability. Furthermore, Cargo Capacity, i.e. the pin weight the truck can carry, is probably more critical than tow ratings.  Stop by a dealer and look at some examples of a nice F350 or 3500 diesel with super or crew cab, car-like interior, etc. and get some real life examples of tow ratings and cargo capacity.


I'll also agree with Ernie - chances are you won't need anything beyond around 17,000 lbs, but you are wise to be thinking ahead.  Do some trailer shopping before you decide on a truck.
Gary
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 09:30:58 AM »
Real simple.........If the F350 can't handle the load,  then get the F450. 

as it is often said here in all the truck posts...."You can never have too much truck"  .



IMO..The best diesel pickup truck would be a Ford body, with a Dodge engine, and a Chevy trans.

It should be like when I ordered my Freightliner work truck ....you can order whatever motor, trans, axles, suspension you want.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 09:42:47 AM by TonyDtorch »

kdbgoat

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 09:57:04 AM »

IMO..The best diesel pickup truck would be a Ford body, with a Dodge engine, and a Chevy trans.


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donn

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 10:23:05 AM »
Real simple.........If the F350 can't handle the load,  then get the F450. 

as it is often said here in all the truck posts...."You can never have too much truck"  .



IMO..The best diesel pickup truck would be a Ford body, with a Dodge engine, and a Chevy trans.

It should be like when I ordered my Freightliner work truck ....you can order whatever motor, trans, axles, suspension you want.

I have to laugh.  This poor fella does not have a clue.  Dodge does NOT make the diesel motor.  Dodge Does NOT sell trucks.
They are RAM trucks powered by CUMMINS motors.
Ram is the only truck builder that offers you a choice of three different transmissions.  All are bullet proof.
GM only offers one rear end ratio choice with their D/A combo.  GM has in the past had about the lowest towing and load carrying capacities.  Which BTW is what you want for towing a fifth wheel.  Cummins is a proven 500K mile motor.  Ford finally got their heads on straight and offer a decent motor.  But Ford is really proud of their trucks, at least price wise.  Rams have one of the best interiors on the market.  Ford slathers too much chrome for my tastes.  But I like badge less exteriors.
Bottom line, go drive them all. Pick the one you feel is best for your needs.  Remember though to pick your new fiver first.  Use the 20% of the GVWR rule for pin weight.  About any of the new trucks are going to weigh close to 8000 pounds ready to travel.
Good luck!

TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 10:46:48 AM »
So.. you must have bought your new Ram truck at your local Ram Dealership ? 

(sorry, it's a Dodge...)   ;)


 I'm so glad you told me and everyone else that the diesel Dodge trucks have a Cummings motor (the new small diesel is Italian made).

 I worked at a Chrysler/Dodge Dealership years ago so I kinda already knew that.   but thanks.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:06:02 AM by TonyDtorch »

donn

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 11:03:57 AM »
If you worked at a dealership you should know it's CUMMINS not cummings.
And nope. It is Ram brand.  I agree their all under the FCA banner, but still a RAM.  There is no where on them that says Dodge.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:06:53 AM by donn »

TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 11:06:49 AM »
I didn't work in the spelling department.   but thanks again.

TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 11:09:41 AM »

And nope. It is Ram brand.  I agree their all under the FCA banner, but still a RAM.  There is no where on them that says Dodge.

Not that long ago all it said was "Dodge"....then it said "Dodge-Ram" for a while ...and now all it says is Ram with a chrome goat head ...in 24" high chromed plastic letters glued right in the middle of tailgate and all down the sides of the truck.
  I think "Ram" is actually the Latin term for "Ugly"... ;D

A Dodge ( ;)) is a very good truck, uncomfortable and homely as hell,   but Famous for being a workhorse with all the same cabin comforts of an International Harvester pickup truck. The preferred farm truck for the hired help.

and Chevy didn't even make that great transmission in their truck either, in fact you now have a Japanese copy of an Allison transmission in your new Goat Head truck.

Dodge years ago should have just bought an Allison like Chevy did instead of trying to make a Torqueflight trans handle all that Cummins power. If you got 120k miles out of that Chrysler transmission you were lucky behind that store bought 500k mile Cummins engine.

over the years there has been good and bad in every brand.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 01:29:38 PM by TonyDtorch »

garym1111

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2017, 01:53:09 PM »
Thanks everyone for your opinions!!

I have looked at the different configurations, especially for the GMC. It's weird that to get the most towing capacity for the GMC you have to get a long bed, which I don't want. The Sierra crew cab, with the standard bed will tow 17200. I'm going to go back and look at both the Ford and the GMC and decide at that point.

Any mileage numbers?

Thanks

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 03:34:06 PM »
Quote
It's weird that to get the most towing capacity for the GMC you have to get a long bed,


You are right about the Sierra Crew Cab standard bed tow rating. Further, that configuration has a CCC (payload) of 3937, and that's before adding any trim options.   That's probably barely enough if you want to tow 17k lbs of trailer.   Looking at the F350 Crew Cab DRW diesels, they all seems to have an 8 ft box as well. It looks as though the standard bed is available only in the SRW configuration, but that can get you to 20k lbs  if you get the right options.  Not sure if it has the CCC needed to tow that much, though.  Better check that carefully if you are thinking SRW.

https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/17RV&TT_Ford_SuperDtyPU_Sep9.pdf

I did not check the Ram specs.
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
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grashley

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2017, 06:56:38 PM »
THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER:  Drive both and get the one your wife likes!  ;D

Seriously, PAYLOAD or CCC should be the defining number.  On every new truck, there is a yellow bordered placard on the driver door latch post which shows "the total weight of passengers and cargo shall not exceed xxxx lbs", which is the max payload, or CCC for THAT truck as it  left the factory.  If you read the fine print / foot notes in the tables, it will say that the published payload / towing capacity must be reduced by the weight of all options and accessories.  The yellow placard has this figured in.

You need sufficient payload to handle 20%+ of the FW GVWR as pin wt, plus 200# for FW hitch plus the weight of all passengers, pets and other cargo carried in the truck.

Look carefully at the yellow placards!

Note also that Steve got the F350 DRW because   1. It was in stock, as he wanted it equipped and   2.  The F350 (for some odd reason) had a significantly higher payload than the comparable F450!
Preacher Gordon
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Boonieman

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2017, 07:38:00 PM »
To respond about fuel mileage, I get a little less than 10 mpg when the toy hauler is loaded up with all our stuff including the motorcycle. Empty truck, not towing, I get right around 16 mpg. I had a 2015 Ford F-350 6.7 Powerstroke and the mileage *might* have been slightly better, but not enough difference to argue about.
I wouldn’t discount the Rams with the Cummins engine either, as stated previously. At least they are the only U.S. truck maker that offers a standard transmission as an option,  which would be my preference. Ford and GM made that decision for me since they don’t even offer it.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2017, 08:23:53 PM »
  On every new truck, there is a yellow bordered placard on the driver door latch post which shows "the total weight of passengers and cargo shall not exceed xxxx lbs",


or what ?

it's not a commercial vehicle....it's never going to be weighed loaded and nobody cares. 

« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 09:41:57 PM by TonyDtorch »

OutdoorFT

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2017, 12:58:33 AM »
or what ?

it's not a commercial vehicle....it's never going to be weighed loaded and nobody cares.
that's not the point...
Future Fulltimer

2011 F350 Lariat CCLB SRW
No RV yet!!

steveblonde

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2017, 08:19:34 AM »
Real simple.........If the F350 can't handle the load,  then get the F450. 

as it is often said here in all the truck posts...."You can never have too much truck"  .



IMO..The best diesel pickup truck would be a Ford body, with a Dodge engine, and a Chevy trans.

It should be like when I ordered my Freightliner work truck ....you can order whatever motor, trans, axles, suspension you want.



Sorry Tony but the F450 has a lower payload than the F350 by over 500lbs on similar equiped trucks which is why i bought a F350

They had both on the lot side by side same coour same trim but looking at the door decal the F350 is higher pay same on the website and brochure
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2017 Ford Escape my Daily driver - first Ford in 25 yrs
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded (First Ford Truck after 17 GMs) 5200lbs cargo/weight capacity named Kong


" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh?

Drifterrider

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2017, 12:40:52 PM »
If you have not already made a purchase, check out Fast Lane Trucking on YouTube.

They do a comparison of the HD trucks comparing towing, payload and MPG, ease of driving, noise level, etc.  It is free to watch!!

steveblonde

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2017, 03:57:03 PM »
If you have not already made a purchase, check out Fast Lane Trucking on YouTube.

They do a comparison of the HD trucks comparing towing, payload and MPG, ease of driving, noise level, etc.  It is free to watch!!


There are a bunch of those 1 says buy a Ram 1 says Buy a Chev 1 says buy a Ford lol they all have opinions
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2017 Ford Escape my Daily driver - first Ford in 25 yrs
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded (First Ford Truck after 17 GMs) 5200lbs cargo/weight capacity named Kong


" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh?

Drifterrider

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2017, 04:00:52 PM »
Fast Lane Trucking doesn't say what to buy.  They give facts.  They compare apples to apples (when they can) as some trucks might not offer a diesel version of the platform they are testing.

TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2017, 04:09:59 PM »


Sorry Tony but the F450 has a lower payload than the F350 by over 500lbs on similar equiped trucks which is why i bought a F350

They had both on the lot side by side same coour same trim but looking at the door decal the F350 is higher pay same on the website and brochure

Let's recap the truck comparison ...the F450 has bigger wheels/tires (19.5" truck wheels),  bigger rear axles shafts,  bigger brakes,  bigger front frame, bigger wider front axle.

I have had a CDL-A for over 40 years now and unless I'm required to go through to a commercial vehicle roadside weight inspection...I really don't care what the yellow sticker says... IMO in the truck world everything bigger... is better.

Is it possible that there is a DOT GVW weight tax threshold that is the reason Ford de-rated the F450 ?


( Steve..are you one of those guys that will not go down the "Up" stairway...even when the building is on fire ?  :) )

« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 05:18:33 PM by TonyDtorch »

steveblonde

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2017, 05:16:11 PM »
Let's recap the truck comparison ...the F450 has bigger wheels/tires (19.5" truck wheels),  bigger rear axles shafts,  bigger brakes,  bigger front frame, bigger wider front axle.

I have had a CDL-A for over 40 years and unless I'm required to go through to a commercial vehicle roadside weight inspection...I really don't care what the yellow sticker says...bigger is better.


( Steve..are you one of those guys that will not go down the "Up" stairway...even when the building is on fire ?  :) )

Congratulations Tony you are the reason insurance companies love ignorant people, and the reason they put on yellow decals, its  because its poeple like you that brake the rules to the extent insurance rates have skyrocketed and just because you had a licence doesnt make you right, the same reason  every one has an ******* , doesnt mean you need to be one. Yes it has a bigger front axle - so it has a tighter turn radius, it has a smaller pay for a reason if you dont like it then i would suggest you bring it up with the Ford engineers and the like im pretty sure they have forgotten a whole bunch more then the average small minded person will ever know.
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2017 Ford Escape my Daily driver - first Ford in 25 yrs
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded (First Ford Truck after 17 GMs) 5200lbs cargo/weight capacity named Kong


" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh?

TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2017, 05:20:52 PM »
You are right Steve...and I have no love or respect for the money gouging Insurance industry either.

they will always figure out a way to letigiously screw you out of money.

As an avid custom car/truck builder since the 60's,... let's say I take a 1/2 ton Ford pickup truck body and put it on a military 2-1/2 ton truck chassis..in the non-commercial truck world does the yellow sticker GVW still count ?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 05:47:30 PM by TonyDtorch »

steveblonde

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2017, 05:50:13 PM »
You are right Steve...and I have no love or respect for the money gouging Insurance industry either.

they will always figure out a way to letigiously screw you out of money.

If I took a 1/2 ton Ford pickup truck body and put it on a military 2-1/2 ton truck chassis..in the non-commercial truck world does the yellow sticker GVW still count ?

To this date you cannot compare commercial trucking to the non commercial world and in the case stated you are correct. However, the rules in this case are there for a reason, i may not agree with them - BUT i travel the roads with those people who have no knowledge and it scares me when i see an overloaded rig of any sort. As a proffesional driver and racer and the victim of ignorance that cost me 2 years of my life in a hospital and more than 15 surgeries to date to fix broken and damaged bones. Coming from a person who has spent there entire life bending rules there are certain thing you dont mess with,this is one of them, the YELLOW decal is put there for a reason you are not in a position to argue it PERIOD


And if you doubt me please read my profile message
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 05:53:16 PM by steveblonde »
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2017 Ford Escape my Daily driver - first Ford in 25 yrs
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded (First Ford Truck after 17 GMs) 5200lbs cargo/weight capacity named Kong


" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh?

TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2017, 05:59:57 PM »
I'll disagree with you again. The yellow GVW stickers are more or less used for taxing purposes and as a warning label to appease corporate attorneys for possible warranty costs.

Go to the SEMI show next year, you will see many brand new trucks that are custom painted... and all those dumb warning stickers are gone. 
 
I know you probably think that is absolutely reckless behavior,   but it's still perfectly legal to drive them right next to you on the highway.
 According to federal DOT rules, (body wise) the only thing you can't tamper with is the actual VIN plate on the dash.

In fact, I have a friend that had the whole quarter panel replaced by the almighty 'insurance company'... no more door stickers.

IMO..anyone that really needs the guidance of that yellow door sticker should first read a  "Trucking for Dummies"  book.. :)

« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 07:17:15 PM by TonyDtorch »

TonyDtorch

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Re: Purchasing a new truck
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2017, 07:26:28 PM »
i would suggest you bring it up with the Ford engineers and the like im pretty sure they have forgotten a whole bunch more then the average small minded person will ever know.

I remember many years ago some of those same highly educated automotive engineers said it is physically impossible for an internal combustion engine car to ever go faster than 120 MPH in the quarter mile.

and then a bunch of 'small minded' hot rodding kids proved them wrong.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 08:30:40 PM by TonyDtorch »

 

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