RV Park Wiring

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Brother Bear

Brother Bear

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Great Plains
I'm not sure where this belongs, so here goes.

Our church camp has twelve RV hookups. The electrical system is antiquated and we are getting ready to redo it, making it a state of the art electrical grid. One question that has come up is, "How should the earth or ground be connected to each 50,30,20 amp pedestal?" One is saying we must use quadplex direct bury cable taking the earth back to the main panel. This does not make sense to me. I believe triplex direct bury makes more sense with a ground rod at each pedestal. If it is necessary to use quad rather than simply going to a ground rod at each pedestal, could someone please explain the logic of it? Thanks!
 
Well... This one is complex. and ther code does vary a bit from state to state so I'd consult with a "Local" expert and actually READ THE CODE for myself.

Many parks I have visisted each site has it's own ground rod.. Each site..

Now since the 20/30/50 box is .. Electrically.. A "Sub Panel"... I'm not sure that is code since NORMALLY the code says one system wide ground at the main box..

BUT.. Technically.. It works well, better in fact, to have a ground at each box (I'd rather not go into why)  Not sure if the box is also connected to the main system ground back at the meter site.

YOu need to check the local code to find out what is and what is not required.
 
I highly suggest consulting a licensed commercial electrical contractor for advice on the wiring upgrade requirements, permits and inspections needed, etc. The church may even have one among the members that would agree to help out. National, state, and local electrical codes have very specific RV park regulations that need to be met for insurance purposes, even if safety is not considered.
 
NY_Dutch said:
I highly suggest consulting a licensed commercial electrical contractor for advice on the wiring upgrade requirements, permits and inspections needed, etc. The church may even have one among the members that would agree to help out. National, state, and local electrical codes have very specific RV park regulations that need to be met for insurance purposes, even if safety is not considered.
Click to expand...

This, for sure.  I'd think there is a lot of liability if your installation deviates from code.  Certainly better to check with the local experts than wind up in a courtroom!
 
Thanks fellas! My question still, however, is what's the logic for pulling all that grounding back to the main panel? Like John says, in my logic, it is better to ground each pedestal separately than to try to pull them all back to the neutral bar in the breaker panel. Would it not give better possibilities for ground (earth) if each had it's own ground rod? I know what codes say, but regardless, I want to know a GOOD reason why one should take both the neutral and the ground back to a central source. Thanks again!
 
so I think you want to know the theory behind the idea....why would it make sense to do it that way?
good question I think.
maybe ask this way....
ground at each sub panel - why would that approach be better?
ground only at main panel - why would that approach be better?
 
Don't confuse grounding with bonding. There are different requirements spelled out in the code, depending on the specific installation.
 
Brother Bear said:
Thanks fellas! My question still, however, is what's the logic for pulling all that grounding back to the main panel? Like John says, in my logic, it is better to ground each pedestal separately than to try to pull them all back to the neutral bar in the breaker panel. Would it not give better possibilities for ground (earth) if each had it's own ground rod? I know what codes say, but regardless, I want to know a GOOD reason why one should take both the neutral and the ground back to a central source. Thanks again!
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Because the neutral and the ground are two totally different things. Yes the neutral eventually gets grounded but you can't rely on the neutral to be the ground. And the ground does not belong on the neutral bar, it gets bonded to the panel. The neutral also gets bonded to the panel. Regular household romex has a neutral and a ground wire. You would never think of using the neutral in house wiring to be the ground.
 
Standalone (local) grounds are frowned upon in the NEC (electrical code)  except in very specific circumstances, but I do not profess to understand the nuances enough to debate how important it is.  Sometimes it just wise to assume the experts who created the NEC knew what they were doing.  Often the rationale turns out to be to protect against various obscure conditions or faults that are unlikely, yet in the past have been known to cause loss of life, fire, etc.

Have you analyzed what it would take to drive a legitimate ground rod at each location vs just using the appropriate wire?  After all, standard power distribution cabling already includes a ground wire, so laying the cable is no more difficult and very, if any, little more expensive. You are talking about running a lot of 6/3 wire, so 6/3 w/ground is not going to alter the work or cost much.
 
Brother Bear said:
Thanks fellas! My question still, however, is what's the logic for pulling all that grounding back to the main panel?
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First let me say this is NOT a political comment.  Does not matter who is in power

You expect a Governmental Regulation to be LOGICAL!!!!!!

Never going to happen.
 
In Canada, grounding COULD be re-established at remote services. Doing so, effectively makes the neutral run to each remote service "the grounded conductor".
Alternatively, a properly sized bonding conductor would be required back to the service that proides the power.
It all comes down to clearing fault situations(breaker tripping or fuse blowing).
As others have mentioned, reference NEC, and any State/local codes. Also bear in mind voltage drops as these increase  with load on a circuit.
 
I work in construction and deal with inspectors all the time. Whenever a question comes up that requires wondering what the local inspector is going to want, I just call the inspector. No point in guessing only to have them tell you they want it some other way. Who ever is going to approve the work will tell you what they want to see. Im assuming this will be inspected. I wouldnt recommend doing this work without the proper measures in place. If someones coach fries, you could find yourself in court. As usual, cover ones butt in all cases.
 
John From Detroit said:
First let me say this is NOT a political comment.  Does not matter who is in power

You expect a Governmental Regulation to be LOGICAL!!!!!!

Never going to happen.
Click to expand...

John, I don't think the government has taken over the NFPA yet...
 
Working from aged memory here.  A ground rod at the pedestal is asking it to communicate back to the the service panel (the origin of hot line and neutral) through the earth itself.  Would you put a subservice on your main panel, hook up neutral and hot to the main panel and then the ground to your neighbors rod?

The advise of talking to the inspector/electrician is very good.  Most electrical inspectors would rather answer some question and sign of once than keep coming back to educate you.  And ultimately, they are the ones that make sure it's right.  It's just someone else that does the labor.
 
Being I was a licensed commercial electrician in my past life I will guaranty that a ground wire is required for as fault path back to the service, it's required by the National Electrical Code that is the minimum requirement for all wiring. You will find that all inspectors will follow it as a minimum requirement. Ground rods work for lighting but they will not for fault current and if it's really dry they won't even work for lightning. The only current that will ever flow on ground wire is fault current, save yourself future problems and use a 4 wire system also don't use a reduce neutral on any rv park wiring because it has to be able to carry all the unbalanced current caused by unbalanced loads on one leg of the power namely the 30 amp recepticals.

Denny
 
muskoka guy said:
I work in construction and deal with inspectors all the time. Whenever a question comes up that requires wondering what the local inspector is going to want, I just call the inspector. No point in guessing only to have them tell you they want it some other way. Who ever is going to approve the work will tell you what they want to see. Im assuming this will be inspected. I wouldnt recommend doing this work without the proper measures in place. If someones coach fries, you could find yourself in court. As usual, cover ones butt in all cases.
Click to expand...

Just for the record, electrical inspections are not required at our church camp. The only thing requiring a permit where we are is a new building . . . and even that does not have an electrical inspection. I have also argued an electrical inspector out of "his opinion" on a thing or two in the past.
 
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