Trailer weight and towing

xrated said:

So, I guess my question to you, if you know, are the axle splines different between an F250 and an F350 SRW truck?  I also saw that the axle tube diameter is smaller on the F250.....which would make sense if the spline size was different.

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I have not idea about the axle diameter........

I ask the one of the Mid West trainers about all the part number between the F250 and F350 being the same and are they really the same truck with different badges and that is what he explain to me.  Also the year can make difference but the part number will be the same. The computer selects the correct part for year and model and sometimes the VIN. 

He also made the comment that people say the there isn't any changes when Ford would upgrade the payload and towing capacities because all the part numbers didn't change.  That was true about the part numbers but some of the parts change because you put not only the model and maybe the VIN but you also have to list the year and the computer selects the correct part of that model and year truck.  Think of the mistakes would be made by the parts guy if he had to select part numbers by all the specs. and easier having the computer make the correct part selection makes for a lot less incorrect order parts..

Just because the rear axle weight "might" be approx. 3000 lbs, that doesn't mean that he has 3100 lbs of payload capacity....That's NOT how it's calculated!  Bad Advice period.

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Now your just runnin' your lip. Thats exactly how a trucks actual in the bed payload  is calculated.

    Numbers of axle splines and axle diameter has nothing to do with how much load it carries but rather how much twist it can withstand.
Axles on a full floater rear axle don't carry weight...just the housing bearings and wheels/tires. Like I mentioned get the F250 with the heavy service package /camper package and you get the suspension  as the F350 SRW.

The smaller axle tube diameters/smaller springs mentioned are for the 6.2 gasser.

As kdbgoat says part numbers are all the same.... per Ford folks.
    This from FTE website on answers from a Ford truck engineer Q&A.

F250 vs F350 SRW AXLES


The axles are identical as is every other part between the 250 and SRW 350. The 250 is de-rated from the factory as are it's axles. The two small differences generally sited between the two, the 4" vs. 2" block and overload spring, can actually be ordered on the 250. The 4" block comes with the FX4 and plow prep and the overload comes with the camper pkg. So, a 250 can be ordered with every part identical to the 350 SRW. Here are the part numbers for a 2012 F250 vs. F350. I chose 2012 but the results are the same if you search any year of the current generation from 11-15.

F250 Left Rear Axle BC3Z4234C
F250 Right Rear Axle BC3Z4234D

F350 Left Rear Axle BC3Z4234C
F350 Right Rear Axle BC3Z4234D

And here are the links to verify:

2012 F250 https://www.silverstatefordparts.com...R%20SUSPENSION


2012 F350 https://www.silverstatefordparts.com...R%20SUSPENSION..

Anyhow .....the OP F250 won't have any issues legally/safely towing that size trailer.

longhaul - sorry you are wrong again a 2012 and 2015 F250 and F350 are not the same truck GVWR numbers are not even close .

https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Brochure?make=Ford&model=SuperDuty&year=2015

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2012/12_FLRVTT_gde.pdf

Your lip has runeth over

longhaul said:

Now your just runnin' your lip. Thats exactly how a trucks actual in the bed payload  is calculated.

    Numbers of axle splines and axle diameter has nothing to do with how much load it carries but rather how much twist it can withstand.
Axles on a full floater rear axle don't carry weight...just the housing bearings and wheels/tires. Like I mentioned get the F250 with the heavy service package /camper package and you get the suspension  as the F350 SRW.

The smaller axle tube diameters/smaller springs mentioned are for the 6.2 gasser.

As kdbgoat says part numbers are all the same.... per Ford folks.
    This from FTE website on answers from a Ford truck engineer Q&A.

F250 vs F350 SRW AXLES


The axles are identical as is every other part between the 250 and SRW 350. The 250 is de-rated from the factory as are it's axles. The two small differences generally sited between the two, the 4" vs. 2" block and overload spring, can actually be ordered on the 250. The 4" block comes with the FX4 and plow prep and the overload comes with the camper pkg. So, a 250 can be ordered with every part identical to the 350 SRW. Here are the part numbers for a 2012 F250 vs. F350. I chose 2012 but the results are the same if you search any year of the current generation from 11-15.

F250 Left Rear Axle BC3Z4234C
F250 Right Rear Axle BC3Z4234D

F350 Left Rear Axle BC3Z4234C
F350 Right Rear Axle BC3Z4234D

And here are the links to verify:

2012 F250 https://www.silverstatefordparts.com...R%20SUSPENSION


2012 F350 https://www.silverstatefordparts.com...R%20SUSPENSION..

Anyhow .....the OP F250 won't have any issues legally/safely towing that size trailer.

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You really don't had a clue on how payload is calculated, obviously, so once again....

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating...MINUS actual weight of vehicle as built (including a full tank of fuel) = CCC or Payload Capacity.....as stated on door post sticker.  No runnin' of my lip here, just the facts!

Called the local parts guy check the regional warehouse for qty.

For the BC3Z4234C
F250 Has 3 in stock
F350 Has 1 in stock

For the BC3Z4234D
F250 Has 2 in stock
F350 Has 0 in stock

All he did is change the order model between F250 and F350 and the qty changed.  Qty didn't change between 2013 and 2015 but changed when we added 2016. 

I know that incorrect since they are the same part because someone on the internet said so. LOL

Perhaps this document from Ford will help settle how things are calculated. It's not rocket science - just simple arithmetic.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/2016/16_TruckPayload_SB_v5.pdf

In any case, the only numbers that matter are the ones on GLOtto's F250. All this debate about splines and 350 SRWs is irrelevant and not helping him a bit.

You know, the GVWR is an absolute number. It?s been approved, and displayed on the vehicle?s certification label. Only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier can change it. The only true way to measure a vehicle load is to have it weighed. You can?t overload the axles without overloading the vehicle. Every ones load is different, depending on options and cargo. Load it up, mom, dad, kids, pets, and the fiver hitch and whatever else is normally carried in the bed. Fill it up with fuel. What does it weigh? Subtract that weight from the GVWR.  That?s how much hitch weight you can add without going into the overload condition. 

FastEagle said:

You know, the GVWR is an absolute number. It?s been approved, and displayed on the vehicle?s certification label. Only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier can change it. The only true way to measure a vehicle load is to have it weighed. You can?t overload the axles without overloading the vehicle. Every ones load is different, depending on options and cargo. Load it up, mom, dad, kids, pets, and the fiver hitch and whatever else is normally carried in the bed. Fill it up with fuel. What does it weigh? Subtract that weight from the GVWR.  That?s how much hitch weight you can add without going into the overload condition.

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I agree ^^^^, but remember, that only applies if you believe the manufacturer's weight ratings and unfortunately, there are some that don't!  8)

xrated said:

I agree ^^^^, but remember, that only applies if you believe the manufacturer's weight ratings and unfortunately, there are some that don't!  8)

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  Other than stirrin' the pot this helps the OP how ??

GVWR  isn't used for any legal purpose and like  the gvwr based payload placard number may overload the trucks rawr when placed in the bed. Thats why using gvwr isn't the best idea for figuring how much weight we add in trucks bed.

GVWR or gvwr based payload number isn't a drop dead number as some rv folks like to play out.
Case in point is a  '16 2500 chevy 6.0 that one members says has a 3640 lb payload. Place 3640 lbs in the bed of any 2500 gm truck and we can have a truck with overloaded tires and wheels

And of course some folks know Ford markets a F350 srw with several gvwr numbers from 10000 up to 15000 lbs (reg cabs...supercabs....crew cabs) in the same exact truck such as;
2015 F350 srw 4x4 crew cab 6.7 diesel 172" wb with a 10000 gvwr or a 11200 gvwr same front and rear axle tranny frame.....the whole truck.
They give their prospective truck buyer a gvwr choice for tax purpose/licensing purposes/etc.
And of course anyone ever towed for a living knows gvwr isn't used to determine a trucks safe/legal load limits or its gvw.

Just stay under the truck mfg axle load rating....just like the trailer.

OP..... if its confusing I would suggest contacting your local state troop shift captain . He or one of his CVO enforcement officers can help you with which numbers are used to determine how much load your F250 truck can safely/legally carry.

 

Where did you find a F350 SRW with a GVWR of 15,000#?  I have a 2017 Ram Dually and the GVWR on it is only 14,000# I don't know of any newer 350/3500 duallys with over a 14,000# GVWR little alone a SWR.

They must have started building new SWR 350/3500 trucks with 22.5" semi tires on it to get to that GVWR.  ;D

longhaul said:

 
Just stay under the truck mfg axle load rating....just like the trailer.

 

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GAWR weights for trailer axles do not provide any load capacity reserves. GAWR weights for truck axles do. It's all in the standards. Worthwhile reading if you have the time.

Hint: Get the GAWR figures off your truck's certification label and compare to the truck's GVWR.

butch50 said:

Where did you find a F350 SRW with a GVWR of 15,000#?  I have a 2017 Ram Dually and the GVWR on it is only 14,000# I don't know of any newer 350/3500 duallys with over a 14,000# GVWR little alone a SWR.

They must have started building new SWR 350/3500 trucks with 22.5" semi tires on it to get to that GVWR.  ;D

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Whoops 
should have typed a 11500 lb gvwr in my above post.

FastEagle said:

GAWR weights for trailer axles do not provide any load capacity reserves. GAWR weights for truck axles do. It's all in the standards. Worthwhile reading if you have the time.

Hint: Get the GAWR figures off your truck's certification label and compare to the truck's GVWR.

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Most do.  My 5er had a GVWR of 15,000 pounds and 23% pin weight loaded ready to camp.  Pin weight at GVWR would be about 3400 pounds subtract that from the 15,000 GVWR would leave 11,600 on the axles with two 7,000 pound axles.  So 14,000 pounds subtract 11,600 gives me 2,400 pounds margin if all sides are equal.  If I had zero margin I wouldn't purchase that 5er since it's never even side to side and one side could be 500 pounds more than other side.




Edit --- You not suggesting that you can exceed the GVWR on the 5er and put another 2400 pounds in it and load to axle weights are you?
 

CWSWine said:

Most do.  My 5er had a GVWR of 15,000 pounds and 23% pin weight loaded ready to camp.  Pin weight at GVWR would be about 3400 pounds subtract that from the 15,000 GVWR would leave 11,600 on the axles with two 7,000 pound axles.  So 14,000 pounds subtract 11,600 gives me 2,400 pounds margin if all sides are equal.  If I had zero margin I wouldn't purchase that 5er since it's never even side to side and one side could be 500 pounds more than other side.




Edit --- You not suggesting that you can exceed the GVWR on the 5er and put another 2400 pounds in it and load to axle weights are you?

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I'm saying the axles on the trailer are probably not certified at 7000# each. What did the certification label say?

Example: This is how it's done on the certification label. This trailer also had 7000# axles and it's heaver than yours was. It's axles are certified at 6840# each.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=29698

FastEagle said:

I'm saying the axles on the trailer are probably not certified at 7000# each. What did the certification label say?

Example: This is how it's done on the certification label. This trailer also had 7000# axles and it's heaver than yours was. It's axles are certified at 6840# each.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=29698

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You have a 5er that has GVWR of 16400 has a pin weight of 3600 (22%) so 16400 GVWR minus 3600 pin weight equals 12,800 on the axles.  The two axles together are 13,680 so a reserve of 880 pounds. 

My 5er was a Solitude 310GK which have two 7000 pound axles. 

CWSWine said:

You have a 5er that has GVWR of 16400 has a pin weight of 3600 (22%) so 16400 GVWR minus 3600 pin weight equals 12,800 on the axles.  The two axles together are 13,680 so a reserve of 880 pounds. 

My 5er was a Solitude 310GK which have two 7000 pound axles.

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This is - in part - what the standard says and is required of the trailer builder. When the trailer's total GAWR weight (value) is added to the trailer manufacturer's recommended hitch weight, the sum must equal or exceed GVWR. Load capacity reserves would be all weight above the sum.

The only axle values that are measurable are the GAWR valuse depicted on the vehicle's certification label.

Brochure weights are nice to know but only certified values count. The vehicle manufacture has the authority/responsibility to set GAWR values that differ from the axle manufactures specs.

I have 2017 F250 Lariat 6.7
GVWR 10000
Truck weighs 6300
3700 to play with

Towing 2018 38ft Cougar 344MKS 5R
Dry Weight 11K
Hitch 2200

Leave 1500 for me, girlfriend and dog

Barely know the camper is back there and handles it just fine.

ammotroop1991 said:

I have 2017 F250 Lariat 6.7
GVWR 10000
Truck weighs 6300
3700 to play with

Towing 2018 38ft Cougar 344MKS 5R
Dry Weight 11K
Hitch 2200

Leave 1500 for me, girlfriend and dog

Barely know the camper is back there and handles it just fine.

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ery few 250;s have that high a payload are you sure thats what the yellow decal says ? my 1 ton was only 3800

ammotroop1991 said:

I have 2017 F250 Lariat 6.7
GVWR 10000
Truck weighs 6300
3700 to play with

Towing 2018 38ft Cougar 344MKS 5R
Dry Weight 11K
Hitch 2200

Leave 1500 for me, girlfriend and dog

Barely know the camper is back there and handles it just fine.

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My neighbors has a 2017 F250 Lariat and on the CAT scale weight was 7780 wonder why yours is so low?