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Author Topic: Marijuana side topic  (Read 3662 times)

SeilerBird

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Marijuana side topic
« on: November 17, 2017, 08:23:36 AM »
The ironic thing is that the legalization of marijuana has been saving many lives. Drunk driving deaths are down and opioid overdose deaths are way down in the states that have legalized marijuana.
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Kevin Means

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 02:46:28 PM »
The ironic thing is that the legalization of marijuana has been saving many lives. Drunk driving deaths are down and opioid overdose deaths are way down in the states that have legalized marijuana.
While a few recent studies have indicated a slight decrease in traffic fatalities due to impairment caused by the "recreational" use of marijuana, even the authors of some of those studies question the results. The impact of marijuana on our country's opiod problem is interesting, but how many of those who became addicted in the first place is an important factor in preventing future addictions.

Longer term studies of marijuana related problems, conducted by NHTSA, HIDTA and the CDC, which studied not only traffic accidents, but also longer term negative societal affects, like school attendance, graduation rates, hospital visits etc. all indicate an increase in marijuana related problems. Here's an article that talks about those longer term studies.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/

We all tend to watch TV news channels, and read news stories, that support our own personal beliefs on any given matter, but education and objectivity are crucial to understanding and solving serious problems. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that whenever mind-altering drugs are combined with driving, accident rates are going to increase.

As a former Narcotics Detective, one of my duties was to interview suspects who were arrested for being under the influence of controlled substances, like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine (11550 H&S.) By the way, in California, marijuana was not considered a "controlled substance." It was considered a "dangerous drug."

I asked all of them a lot of "canned" questions, and one interesting fact we learned was that 100% of them started out by experimenting with alcohol AND marijuana before moving on to stronger, more addictive drugs. Most of those using "hard drugs" were still using marijuana. That DOES NOT mean that everyone who uses marijuana is going to move on to harder drugs, but there's clearly a correlation between marijuana and harder drugs.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if an adult wanted to burn their brains out on drugs. It's their life. It's just a shame when it happens to kids and young adults, because their brains haven't developed enough for them to understand the dangers, and some of the damage is irreparable. Those of us who do understand the dangers often set a poor example for them.

Unfortunately, it's very clear that many marijuana users are going to drive while stoned, endangering the lives of our friends and families. Some users will show up in ER rooms with bad reactions to the drug, and my tax dollars may be used to pay for their treatment. Some will lose their jobs, because they're always showing up for work stoned, and once again, my tax dollars may be used to pay their unemployment benefits. Many in school won't graduate, and will go on to use more dangerous drugs, which can be devastating to their families and their own futures.

The biggest problem I have is the message sent to our kids and young adults when they're told that it's okay for adults to use yet another mind-altering drug. We know full well the damage caused by drunk drivers and smoking, yet it's somehow acceptable for adults to smoke dope "recreationally." Oh well. End of rant.

I tried to figure out a nexus to RVing, but I can't. Sorry

Kev
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 04:06:25 PM »
IMO...MJ is no better or no worse than alcohol.  Anyone that has a beer or a glass of wine is just as guilty.

Abuse is abuse no matter what the drug.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 04:08:56 PM by TonyDtorch »

SeilerBird

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 04:54:01 AM »
While a few recent studies have indicated a slight decrease in traffic fatalities due to impairment caused by the "recreational" use of marijuana, even the authors of some of those studies question the results. The impact of marijuana on our country's opiod problem is interesting, but how many of those who became addicted in the first place is an important factor in preventing future addictions.

Longer term studies of marijuana related problems, conducted by NHTSA, HIDTA and the CDC, which studied not only traffic accidents, but also longer term negative societal affects, like school attendance, graduation rates, hospital visits etc. all indicate an increase in marijuana related problems. Here's an article that talks about those longer term studies.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/

We all tend to watch TV news channels, and read news stories, that support our own personal beliefs on any given matter, but education and objectivity are crucial to understanding and solving serious problems. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that whenever mind-altering drugs are combined with driving, accident rates are going to increase.

As a former Narcotics Detective, one of my duties was to interview suspects who were arrested for being under the influence of controlled substances, like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine (11550 H&S.) By the way, in California, marijuana was not considered a "controlled substance." It was considered a "dangerous drug."

I asked all of them a lot of "canned" questions, and one interesting fact we learned was that 100% of them started out by experimenting with alcohol AND marijuana before moving on to stronger, more addictive drugs. Most of those using "hard drugs" were still using marijuana. That DOES NOT mean that everyone who uses marijuana is going to move on to harder drugs, but there's clearly a correlation between marijuana and harder drugs.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if an adult wanted to burn their brains out on drugs. It's their life. It's just a shame when it happens to kids and young adults, because their brains haven't developed enough for them to understand the dangers, and some of the damage is irreparable. Those of us who do understand the dangers often set a poor example for them.

Unfortunately, it's very clear that many marijuana users are going to drive while stoned, endangering the lives of our friends and families. Some users will show up in ER rooms with bad reactions to the drug, and my tax dollars may be used to pay for their treatment. Some will lose their jobs, because they're always showing up for work stoned, and once again, my tax dollars may be used to pay their unemployment benefits. Many in school won't graduate, and will go on to use more dangerous drugs, which can be devastating to their families and their own futures.

The biggest problem I have is the message sent to our kids and young adults when they're told that it's okay for adults to use yet another mind-altering drug. We know full well the damage caused by drunk drivers and smoking, yet it's somehow acceptable for adults to smoke dope "recreationally." Oh well. End of rant.

I tried to figure out a nexus to RVing, but I can't. Sorry

Kev
The same tired old Reefer Madness lies from the liquor industry, the medical profession and the law enforcement agencies and others that have a financial interest in keeping marijuana illegal that have been proven false many years ago. 29/50
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 06:55:24 AM »
One of the reasons legalizing MJ may reduce incidents related to the abuse of same is this:

When I was young and growing up on the farm.. And again just last week,, I heard this same story about Alcohol.

The speaker (Both told it 1st person) said when they were 18,19,20 Man did booze taste good, they could not get enough of it.. But soon as they turned 21.. All the flavor went out of it and it tasted BAD.

(That, by the way, is the reason I do not drink booze.. IT TASTES BAD).

Same for MJ..  When it became legal.. For some. Many likely,  All the pleasure went out of it.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 08:44:34 AM »
Well since this has turned into a MJ discussion..

A new study on post legalization in the state of Colorado showed the death rate from opiate drugs is down by 40%.

Nationally more people die every day from opiate overdoses than all the auto accidents ...and ...all the gun related deaths ...Combined. 

It appears legalizing it may put a hurt in the sales of Oxycontin.   The Large Drug companies will have to pass more laws or jump on board.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 09:06:51 AM by TonyDtorch »

Rancher Will

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 01:49:52 PM »
I suggest everyone read, or re-read, Kevin Means comments. I am now retired after 40 years as police Detective,  Chief of Police, and County Undersheriff. My experience matches Kevin's.

My experience covering serious auto crashes matched our State Wide Averages over the years I was on duty. That is, about 10 to 15 percent of the fatal crashes involved drugs, usually testing positive for marijuana. Alcohol with Marijuana was also very common when we always tested after fatal and/or serious injury crashes.

I don't care if any adult wishes to pickle their brain with any drug or alcohol, so long as they are not forced to do so. I do care when anyone under the influence of any substance endangers others.

PJ Stough

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2017, 03:47:05 PM »
You can see why someone who is drunk or under the influence of drugs gets into an accident, but what excuse to sober people have? 
PJ Stough   Iowa
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John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2017, 04:35:07 PM »
You can see why someone who is drunk or under the influence of drugs gets into an accident, but what excuse to sober people have?

Off hand I can think of several... Some of them are even legitimate and check out.

That said.... I was a police dispatcher for over a quarter century so perhaps I have better input in this area.
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PJ Stough

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2017, 04:44:09 PM »
My point was that it is easy to blame being under the influence if someone under the influence gets into an accident as if everyone who gets into an accident while under the influence is because they under the influence.  this reminds me of the old SNL skits about "Another drug related death".
PJ Stough   Iowa
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 05:13:41 PM »
Back in the days, I rode some of my best motorcycle races stoned,  but I'd crash if I was drunk.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 06:53:20 PM by TonyDtorch »

catblaster

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 06:26:10 PM »
 I will add my 2 cents that I'm outta here...The last time (almost 40yrs ago) that I mixed alcohol and MJ, I  passed out, turned yellow, was sweating like crazy and didn't remember anything.  It seems that with some the use of MJ limits their judgment when it comes to limiting alcohol consumption. That what happened to me and I have seen it in others. My transplant doctors forbid me to smoke anything since it will affect my new lungs but have no problems with CBD and the VA is even looking into its benefits. Since I now use the CBD oil I no longer take any type of sleeping aid, no antidepressants, no nausea meds. my blood pressure has dropped to almost normal levels and I am much easier to get along with. No negative side effects except the cost and even that is cheaper than the 3 prescriptions that it has replaced. .....your mileage may vary...
Will and Jane
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2017, 06:45:17 PM »
   Since I now use the CBD oil I no longer take any type of sleeping aid, no antidepressants, no nausea meds. my blood pressure has dropped to almost normal levels and I am much easier to get along with. No negative side effects except the cost and even that is cheaper than the 3 prescriptions that it has replaced. .....your mileage may vary...
I was really hoping our last president would have done one of his Executive Orders and had Canibus/CBD decriminalized,  then VA could give me the only antidepressant that works without me wanting to kill myself or someone else.

The VA doctors say they understand but their hands are tied as federally it's still classified a Class A narcotic. I hear rumors of a federally funded program studying the affects of MJ on some PTSD vets coming home now days.

If they legalized it,  then maybe the DEA and police could redirect their resources.  No more flower bed raids and maybe get some Oxy's off the streets.

Approximately 175 people die nationally every day from opiate overdoses,    and on that same day,  106 people die from all auto accidents, both alcohol related and otherwise....plus...all gun related deaths.

(sorry..end of rant   :P )
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 07:54:27 PM by TonyDtorch »

Tom

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 07:53:22 AM »
In case someone's wondering, these messages were split from another topic.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Back2PA

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 08:16:05 AM »
In case someone's wondering, these messages were split from another topic.


Thanks Tom. I did have a brief, “Didn’t I just read this?” moment  ::)
Scott
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winona

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 02:18:12 PM »
You can see why someone who is drunk or under the influence of drugs gets into an accident, but what excuse to sober people have?

I'll throw my 2 cents / rant in here.  Sober drivers?  Technology in cars!  I have more buttons in my truck that do more stuff that I've never used.  Used to be you could reach down, feel the buttons on the radio and change a channel.  Now I have to scroll thru the favorites.  And my navigation?  My nose has to be pressed to the screen to see the street names.  Defroster?  Fan speed?  Good luck.  And I do think I can program my stove to turn on to cook my roast while I'm driving.  Sheesh.  Oh for a simpler dash!  (But I will admit I like the dimmer switch on my turn signal rather than the button on the floor!   :D  )
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PJ Stough

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 02:56:43 PM »
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.
PJ Stough   Iowa
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 03:26:47 PM »
Kevan:

  If you justify outlawing MJ  based on the fact every hard drug user started out using it... how do you justify alcohol ?

I'll bet they drank before too. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 03:36:39 PM by TonyDtorch »

John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 03:59:01 PM »
The Narcotics officer who posted said "MJ AND ALCOHOL". not MJ (or was it MJ OR Alcohol without scrolling back up I do not know)

And Tony you are correct.. A logic question I remember from ELEMENTARY school no less (I'm mid 60's now) (Memory is what happens when you do not do drugs, other than coffee, Alcohol by the way is a Drug, as is Tobacco, And a whole bunch of other stuff. I do Coffee)

Officer O'Mally has flat Feet
Thus All Police Officers have Flat Feet
True or False?

Fact: NO police officers have flat feet. If they develope Flat Feet... Medical Retirement.'

The correct answer is FALSE of course.. Even if a slang term for a beat cop is "Flatfoot'.
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RedandSilver

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2017, 04:28:10 PM »
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.

 :)) :)) :))

Kind of like if a pro truck driver gets in an accident it's almost always their fault.
Or if you were found to be over weight on your vehicle it would be your fault, even though WE all know that all RV's
can't stop as fast as most cars (even when the RV is not over weight) when they cut you off because they were late....
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Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2017, 05:19:21 PM »
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.
:))
Gene

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QZ

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2017, 05:21:23 PM »
After working around people who were drinking and smoking and living through my young years of drinking if one of the two substances should be illegal it would absolutely be alcohol.  I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.

I know, I know people who do the speed limit are the dangerous ones because they are holding up the flow of traffic. "Flow" of course being all the law breakers.

Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2017, 06:02:06 PM »
Quote
I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.
Reminds me of a car trip home from a party in the 70s. The driver was stoned and when he stopped for the traffic light cars behind us started honking their horns. Someone said I think you need to get closer to the light. He'd stopped about 50' from the light. It took him two more tries and lots of horns to get to the light. By the time he got to the light it had turned green.  :)
Gene

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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2017, 06:06:02 PM »
Reminds me of a car trip home from a party in the 70s. The driver was stoned and when he stopped for the traffic light cars behind us started honking their horns. Someone said I think you need to get closer to the light. He'd stopped about 50' from the light. It took him two more tries and lots of horns to get to the light. By the time he got to the light it had turned green.  :)
okay,  so I'm curious ...was it one of those 'Pot Only' parties, or was there any alcohol involved ?

It's a well know fact alcohol effects many other drugs too.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:13:54 PM by TonyDtorch »

LarsMac

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2017, 06:12:35 PM »
In my young and stupid days, I more than once woke up and wondered who drove home from a party or something last night, and was shocked to find out that I did.
We were so very fortunate in those days.

In later years, I drove a tow truck, and had to clean up after many who were not as fortunate as I was.
Someone can be impaired, and still take care of the business of getting home. It is often the various distractions that actually cause the accidents. Sober people can usually handle distractions better than stoned or drunk folks.

 
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Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2017, 06:26:10 PM »
Quote
okay,  so I'm curious ...was it one of those 'Pot Only' parties, or was there any alcohol involved ?

It's a well know fact alcohol effects many other drugs too.
Pretty sure it was just pot, but it was the 70s so...
Gene

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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2017, 06:27:06 PM »
Sober people can usually handle distractions better than stoned or drunk folks.

there are two distinct types of MJ, one helps you relax and sleep, and the other type actually enhances focus and creativity.

Just like Prozac or Ritalin, Xanax allows some people to relax and focus; different drugs effect people differently and dosage is everything. 

The joke back in the 60's was if you see a cop.... speed up so he doesn't think you're stoned...it was just overdose focus. 

IMO...It sure was fun to 'focus' on the music at a concert.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:37:03 PM by TonyDtorch »

catblaster

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2017, 06:31:13 PM »
 
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.
  :)) :)) :))

After working around people who were drinking and smoking and living through my young years of drinking if one of the two substances should be illegal it would absolutely be alcohol.  I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.

I know, I know people who do the speed limit are the dangerous ones because they are holding up the flow of traffic. "Flow" of course being all the law breakers.

Drunk people run the red light while stoners stop and watch the pretty colors change!
 Back many years ago when I was pushing a crew of fitters and welders I would much rather have my welders smoked just a little They would throw the hood down and stay under it as long as someone fed them welding rods. The paranoia kept them looking over their shoulder and therefore cautious. No argument, no fights just laughter and sparks flying. Lunch and breaktime usually took longer than normal.
Will and Jane
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Pugapooh

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2017, 06:43:11 PM »
I just can't understand why alcohol is legal and MJ is not.  We know it is a waste of resources to chase after users and sellers.  Like Prohibition,it does not work.  The government could be raising revenue.  Driving under the influence would still be illegal.  What is the big deal?
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2017, 06:49:17 PM »
IMO...the 'big deal' is how much revenue the big legal drug and alcohol companies will lose.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:52:09 PM by TonyDtorch »