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Author Topic: Marijuana side topic  (Read 2477 times)

SeilerBird

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Marijuana side topic
« on: November 17, 2017, 08:23:36 AM »
The ironic thing is that the legalization of marijuana has been saving many lives. Drunk driving deaths are down and opioid overdose deaths are way down in the states that have legalized marijuana.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Kevin Means

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 02:46:28 PM »
The ironic thing is that the legalization of marijuana has been saving many lives. Drunk driving deaths are down and opioid overdose deaths are way down in the states that have legalized marijuana.
While a few recent studies have indicated a slight decrease in traffic fatalities due to impairment caused by the "recreational" use of marijuana, even the authors of some of those studies question the results. The impact of marijuana on our country's opiod problem is interesting, but how many of those who became addicted in the first place is an important factor in preventing future addictions.

Longer term studies of marijuana related problems, conducted by NHTSA, HIDTA and the CDC, which studied not only traffic accidents, but also longer term negative societal affects, like school attendance, graduation rates, hospital visits etc. all indicate an increase in marijuana related problems. Here's an article that talks about those longer term studies.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/

We all tend to watch TV news channels, and read news stories, that support our own personal beliefs on any given matter, but education and objectivity are crucial to understanding and solving serious problems. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that whenever mind-altering drugs are combined with driving, accident rates are going to increase.

As a former Narcotics Detective, one of my duties was to interview suspects who were arrested for being under the influence of controlled substances, like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine (11550 H&S.) By the way, in California, marijuana was not considered a "controlled substance." It was considered a "dangerous drug."

I asked all of them a lot of "canned" questions, and one interesting fact we learned was that 100% of them started out by experimenting with alcohol AND marijuana before moving on to stronger, more addictive drugs. Most of those using "hard drugs" were still using marijuana. That DOES NOT mean that everyone who uses marijuana is going to move on to harder drugs, but there's clearly a correlation between marijuana and harder drugs.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if an adult wanted to burn their brains out on drugs. It's their life. It's just a shame when it happens to kids and young adults, because their brains haven't developed enough for them to understand the dangers, and some of the damage is irreparable. Those of us who do understand the dangers often set a poor example for them.

Unfortunately, it's very clear that many marijuana users are going to drive while stoned, endangering the lives of our friends and families. Some users will show up in ER rooms with bad reactions to the drug, and my tax dollars may be used to pay for their treatment. Some will lose their jobs, because they're always showing up for work stoned, and once again, my tax dollars may be used to pay their unemployment benefits. Many in school won't graduate, and will go on to use more dangerous drugs, which can be devastating to their families and their own futures.

The biggest problem I have is the message sent to our kids and young adults when they're told that it's okay for adults to use yet another mind-altering drug. We know full well the damage caused by drunk drivers and smoking, yet it's somehow acceptable for adults to smoke dope "recreationally." Oh well. End of rant.

I tried to figure out a nexus to RVing, but I can't. Sorry

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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 04:06:25 PM »
IMO...MJ is no better or no worse than alcohol.  Anyone that has a beer or a glass of wine is just as guilty.

Abuse is abuse no matter what the drug.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 04:08:56 PM by TonyDtorch »

SeilerBird

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 04:54:01 AM »
While a few recent studies have indicated a slight decrease in traffic fatalities due to impairment caused by the "recreational" use of marijuana, even the authors of some of those studies question the results. The impact of marijuana on our country's opiod problem is interesting, but how many of those who became addicted in the first place is an important factor in preventing future addictions.

Longer term studies of marijuana related problems, conducted by NHTSA, HIDTA and the CDC, which studied not only traffic accidents, but also longer term negative societal affects, like school attendance, graduation rates, hospital visits etc. all indicate an increase in marijuana related problems. Here's an article that talks about those longer term studies.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/

We all tend to watch TV news channels, and read news stories, that support our own personal beliefs on any given matter, but education and objectivity are crucial to understanding and solving serious problems. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that whenever mind-altering drugs are combined with driving, accident rates are going to increase.

As a former Narcotics Detective, one of my duties was to interview suspects who were arrested for being under the influence of controlled substances, like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine (11550 H&S.) By the way, in California, marijuana was not considered a "controlled substance." It was considered a "dangerous drug."

I asked all of them a lot of "canned" questions, and one interesting fact we learned was that 100% of them started out by experimenting with alcohol AND marijuana before moving on to stronger, more addictive drugs. Most of those using "hard drugs" were still using marijuana. That DOES NOT mean that everyone who uses marijuana is going to move on to harder drugs, but there's clearly a correlation between marijuana and harder drugs.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if an adult wanted to burn their brains out on drugs. It's their life. It's just a shame when it happens to kids and young adults, because their brains haven't developed enough for them to understand the dangers, and some of the damage is irreparable. Those of us who do understand the dangers often set a poor example for them.

Unfortunately, it's very clear that many marijuana users are going to drive while stoned, endangering the lives of our friends and families. Some users will show up in ER rooms with bad reactions to the drug, and my tax dollars may be used to pay for their treatment. Some will lose their jobs, because they're always showing up for work stoned, and once again, my tax dollars may be used to pay their unemployment benefits. Many in school won't graduate, and will go on to use more dangerous drugs, which can be devastating to their families and their own futures.

The biggest problem I have is the message sent to our kids and young adults when they're told that it's okay for adults to use yet another mind-altering drug. We know full well the damage caused by drunk drivers and smoking, yet it's somehow acceptable for adults to smoke dope "recreationally." Oh well. End of rant.

I tried to figure out a nexus to RVing, but I can't. Sorry

Kev
The same tired old Reefer Madness lies from the liquor industry, the medical profession and the law enforcement agencies and others that have a financial interest in keeping marijuana illegal that have been proven false many years ago. 29/50
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 06:55:24 AM »
One of the reasons legalizing MJ may reduce incidents related to the abuse of same is this:

When I was young and growing up on the farm.. And again just last week,, I heard this same story about Alcohol.

The speaker (Both told it 1st person) said when they were 18,19,20 Man did booze taste good, they could not get enough of it.. But soon as they turned 21.. All the flavor went out of it and it tasted BAD.

(That, by the way, is the reason I do not drink booze.. IT TASTES BAD).

Same for MJ..  When it became legal.. For some. Many likely,  All the pleasure went out of it.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 08:44:34 AM »
Well since this has turned into a MJ discussion..

A new study on post legalization in the state of Colorado showed the death rate from opiate drugs is down by 40%.

Nationally more people die every day from opiate overdoses than all the auto accidents ...and ...all the gun related deaths ...Combined. 

It appears legalizing it may put a hurt in the sales of Oxycontin.   The Large Drug companies will have to pass more laws or jump on board.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 09:06:51 AM by TonyDtorch »

Rancher Will

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 01:49:52 PM »
I suggest everyone read, or re-read, Kevin Means comments. I am now retired after 40 years as police Detective,  Chief of Police, and County Undersheriff. My experience matches Kevin's.

My experience covering serious auto crashes matched our State Wide Averages over the years I was on duty. That is, about 10 to 15 percent of the fatal crashes involved drugs, usually testing positive for marijuana. Alcohol with Marijuana was also very common when we always tested after fatal and/or serious injury crashes.

I don't care if any adult wishes to pickle their brain with any drug or alcohol, so long as they are not forced to do so. I do care when anyone under the influence of any substance endangers others.

Paul & Ann

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2017, 03:47:05 PM »
You can see why someone who is drunk or under the influence of drugs gets into an accident, but what excuse to sober people have? 
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2017, 04:35:07 PM »
You can see why someone who is drunk or under the influence of drugs gets into an accident, but what excuse to sober people have?

Off hand I can think of several... Some of them are even legitimate and check out.

That said.... I was a police dispatcher for over a quarter century so perhaps I have better input in this area.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2017, 04:44:09 PM »
My point was that it is easy to blame being under the influence if someone under the influence gets into an accident as if everyone who gets into an accident while under the influence is because they under the influence.  this reminds me of the old SNL skits about "Another drug related death".
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 05:13:41 PM »
Back in the days, I rode some of my best motorcycle races stoned,  but I'd crash if I was drunk.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 06:53:20 PM by TonyDtorch »

catblaster

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 06:26:10 PM »
 I will add my 2 cents that I'm outta here...The last time (almost 40yrs ago) that I mixed alcohol and MJ, I  passed out, turned yellow, was sweating like crazy and didn't remember anything.  It seems that with some the use of MJ limits their judgment when it comes to limiting alcohol consumption. That what happened to me and I have seen it in others. My transplant doctors forbid me to smoke anything since it will affect my new lungs but have no problems with CBD and the VA is even looking into its benefits. Since I now use the CBD oil I no longer take any type of sleeping aid, no antidepressants, no nausea meds. my blood pressure has dropped to almost normal levels and I am much easier to get along with. No negative side effects except the cost and even that is cheaper than the 3 prescriptions that it has replaced. .....your mileage may vary...
Will and Jane
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2017, 06:45:17 PM »
   Since I now use the CBD oil I no longer take any type of sleeping aid, no antidepressants, no nausea meds. my blood pressure has dropped to almost normal levels and I am much easier to get along with. No negative side effects except the cost and even that is cheaper than the 3 prescriptions that it has replaced. .....your mileage may vary...
I was really hoping our last president would have done one of his Executive Orders and had Canibus/CBD decriminalized,  then VA could give me the only antidepressant that works without me wanting to kill myself or someone else.

The VA doctors say they understand but their hands are tied as federally it's still classified a Class A narcotic. I hear rumors of a federally funded program studying the affects of MJ on some PTSD vets coming home now days.

If they legalized it,  then maybe the DEA and police could redirect their resources.  No more flower bed raids and maybe get some Oxy's off the streets.

Approximately 175 people die nationally every day from opiate overdoses,    and on that same day,  106 people die from all auto accidents, both alcohol related and otherwise....plus...all gun related deaths.

(sorry..end of rant   :P )
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 07:54:27 PM by TonyDtorch »

Tom

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 07:53:22 AM »
In case someone's wondering, these messages were split from another topic.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

Sun2Retire

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 08:16:05 AM »
In case someone's wondering, these messages were split from another topic.


Thanks Tom. I did have a brief, ďDidnít I just read this?Ē moment  ::)
Scott
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winona

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 02:18:12 PM »
You can see why someone who is drunk or under the influence of drugs gets into an accident, but what excuse to sober people have?

I'll throw my 2 cents / rant in here.  Sober drivers?  Technology in cars!  I have more buttons in my truck that do more stuff that I've never used.  Used to be you could reach down, feel the buttons on the radio and change a channel.  Now I have to scroll thru the favorites.  And my navigation?  My nose has to be pressed to the screen to see the street names.  Defroster?  Fan speed?  Good luck.  And I do think I can program my stove to turn on to cook my roast while I'm driving.  Sheesh.  Oh for a simpler dash!  (But I will admit I like the dimmer switch on my turn signal rather than the button on the floor!   :D  )
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Paul & Ann

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 02:56:43 PM »
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 03:26:47 PM »
Kevan:

  If you justify outlawing MJ  based on the fact every hard drug user started out using it... how do you justify alcohol ?

I'll bet they drank before too. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 03:36:39 PM by TonyDtorch »

John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 03:59:01 PM »
The Narcotics officer who posted said "MJ AND ALCOHOL". not MJ (or was it MJ OR Alcohol without scrolling back up I do not know)

And Tony you are correct.. A logic question I remember from ELEMENTARY school no less (I'm mid 60's now) (Memory is what happens when you do not do drugs, other than coffee, Alcohol by the way is a Drug, as is Tobacco, And a whole bunch of other stuff. I do Coffee)

Officer O'Mally has flat Feet
Thus All Police Officers have Flat Feet
True or False?

Fact: NO police officers have flat feet. If they develope Flat Feet... Medical Retirement.'

The correct answer is FALSE of course.. Even if a slang term for a beat cop is "Flatfoot'.
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RedandSilver

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2017, 04:28:10 PM »
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.

 :)) :)) :))

Kind of like if a pro truck driver gets in an accident it's almost always their fault.
Or if you were found to be over weight on your vehicle it would be your fault, even though WE all know that all RV's
can't stop as fast as most cars (even when the RV is not over weight) when they cut you off because they were late....
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Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2017, 05:19:21 PM »
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.
:))
Gene

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QZ

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2017, 05:21:23 PM »
After working around people who were drinking and smoking and living through my young years of drinking if one of the two substances should be illegal it would absolutely be alcohol.  I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.

I know, I know people who do the speed limit are the dangerous ones because they are holding up the flow of traffic. "Flow" of course being all the law breakers.

Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2017, 06:02:06 PM »
Quote
I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.
Reminds me of a car trip home from a party in the 70s. The driver was stoned and when he stopped for the traffic light cars behind us started honking their horns. Someone said I think you need to get closer to the light. He'd stopped about 50' from the light. It took him two more tries and lots of horns to get to the light. By the time he got to the light it had turned green.  :)
Gene

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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2017, 06:06:02 PM »
Reminds me of a car trip home from a party in the 70s. The driver was stoned and when he stopped for the traffic light cars behind us started honking their horns. Someone said I think you need to get closer to the light. He'd stopped about 50' from the light. It took him two more tries and lots of horns to get to the light. By the time he got to the light it had turned green.  :)
okay,  so I'm curious ...was it one of those 'Pot Only' parties, or was there any alcohol involved ?

It's a well know fact alcohol effects many other drugs too.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:13:54 PM by TonyDtorch »

LarsMac

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2017, 06:12:35 PM »
In my young and stupid days, I more than once woke up and wondered who drove home from a party or something last night, and was shocked to find out that I did.
We were so very fortunate in those days.

In later years, I drove a tow truck, and had to clean up after many who were not as fortunate as I was.
Someone can be impaired, and still take care of the business of getting home. It is often the various distractions that actually cause the accidents. Sober people can usually handle distractions better than stoned or drunk folks.

 
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Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2017, 06:26:10 PM »
Quote
okay,  so I'm curious ...was it one of those 'Pot Only' parties, or was there any alcohol involved ?

It's a well know fact alcohol effects many other drugs too.
Pretty sure it was just pot, but it was the 70s so...
Gene

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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2017, 06:27:06 PM »
Sober people can usually handle distractions better than stoned or drunk folks.

there are two distinct types of MJ, one helps you relax and sleep, and the other type actually enhances focus and creativity.

Just like Prozac or Ritalin, Xanax allows some people to relax and focus; different drugs effect people differently and dosage is everything. 

The joke back in the 60's was if you see a cop.... speed up so he doesn't think you're stoned...it was just overdose focus. 

IMO...It sure was fun to 'focus' on the music at a concert.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:37:03 PM by TonyDtorch »

catblaster

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2017, 06:31:13 PM »
 
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.
  :)) :)) :))

After working around people who were drinking and smoking and living through my young years of drinking if one of the two substances should be illegal it would absolutely be alcohol.  I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.

I know, I know people who do the speed limit are the dangerous ones because they are holding up the flow of traffic. "Flow" of course being all the law breakers.

Drunk people run the red light while stoners stop and watch the pretty colors change!
 Back many years ago when I was pushing a crew of fitters and welders I would much rather have my welders smoked just a little They would throw the hood down and stay under it as long as someone fed them welding rods. The paranoia kept them looking over their shoulder and therefore cautious. No argument, no fights just laughter and sparks flying. Lunch and breaktime usually took longer than normal.
Will and Jane
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Pugapooh

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2017, 06:43:11 PM »
I just can't understand why alcohol is legal and MJ is not.  We know it is a waste of resources to chase after users and sellers.  Like Prohibition,it does not work.  The government could be raising revenue.  Driving under the influence would still be illegal.  What is the big deal?
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2017, 06:49:17 PM »
IMO...the 'big deal' is how much revenue the big legal drug and alcohol companies will lose.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:52:09 PM by TonyDtorch »

QZ

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2017, 07:13:58 PM »
In my young and stupid days, I more than once woke up and wondered who drove home from a party or something last night, and was shocked to find out that I did.
We were so very fortunate in those days.

In later years, I drove a tow truck, and had to clean up after many who were not as fortunate as I was.
Someone can be impaired, and still take care of the business of getting home. It is often the various distractions that actually cause the accidents. Sober people can usually handle distractions better than stoned or drunk folks.

The vomit and hangovers were nothing compared to having the old man see my shoes sitting on the hood of my car one morning. One of my very considerate drinking buddies had dropped them off. It must have been a heck of a party. One morning  my wife said where is the car. I walked over to the kitchen window and pulled the curtain back. NO CAR! Where the heck did I leave that dang thing!

John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2017, 06:40:34 AM »
Side Side not on MJ.

There is a headline on Facebook this week. and I'm sure it's not going away.. Made it into "This is True" which is a fairly researched News letter (Yesterday's Premimum edition) about "FIrst death due to Marijuana Overdose" (A baby)

FAKE NEWS it is.. The baby died from heart problems.. There was a TRACE of the active chemical in MJ because of 2nd hand smoke but it is NOT what killed the baby (I did say This Is True is well researched, also written by a medical professional (EMT))

I do know of deaths that are tracable back to MJ.. but MJ is not the direct cause (Self Inflicted Gunshot in the one I know of).
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SargeW

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2017, 07:22:37 AM »
My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.


If a person is impaired, it will always be a factor in a traffic incident. And just as deadly is cell phone use while driving. Actually any distracted driving is deadly, regardless of the cause. All it takes is one visit to a traffic collision scene and observe mangled bodies all over the road to trash any argument contrary to that statement (I have).

And unfortunately there is another aspect of MJ use that does affect me as an RV'er. As it happens we travel to and visit many campgrounds as full timers now. I can be camped next to someone in the next site sitting outside or inside for that matter, quietly sipping an alcoholic beverage, and never be aware.  But sitting next to someone sitting outside smoking a joint terribly destroy's my experience.  And yes, that has already happened.  And no, cigarettes are not any better.   

And the other issue is that because MJ is easier to conceal and carry than an alcoholic beverage, casual use in a motor vehicle is also climbing. (As I can easily see from my elevated driving position in the RV).  So my experiences with MJ (or any illicit or prescribed drug) match Keven Means.  Just my .02 cents. 
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2017, 08:17:00 AM »
I asked all of them a lot of "canned" questions, and one interesting fact we learned was that 100% of them started out by experimenting with alcohol AND marijuana before moving on to stronger, more addictive drugs. Most of those using "hard drugs" were still using marijuana. That DOES NOT mean that everyone who uses marijuana is going to move on to harder drugs, but there's clearly a correlation between marijuana and harder drugs.

Kev
Thanks for that rant Kev.  You confirmed what I have believed all along.  Marijuana is now nothing more than an introduction to harder drugs.  The ability of the federal government to totally ignore what is happening within individual states that choose to legalize it despite it being against federal law is appalling.  I am happy to have grown up in a non-drug environment but it is not too difficult to see what this one particular supposedly innocent drug is doing to society.  Yes alcohol is a problem and always will be but it does not lead to even more destructive forms of alcohol. As for medical marijuana, the fact that every Tom, Dick and Harry can get a card is proof that the system is totally out of control. I have yet to see any study that definitively proves the value of medical marijuana other than to provide a false sense of happiness.  Watch the TV program Live PD on A&E on Friday and Saturdays nights and see, live and in person, what the police are faced with. Enough of my rant too.

Bill
Edit: Fixed quote.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 08:40:34 AM by Tom »
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Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2017, 08:27:11 AM »
Quote
And the other issue is that because MJ is easier to conceal and carry than an alcoholic beverage, casual use in a motor vehicle is also climbing. (As I can easily see from my elevated driving position in the RV).  So my experiences with MJ (or any illicit or prescribed drug) match Keven Means.  Just my .02 cents.
I hope that wasn't while you were driving.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2017, 08:50:07 AM »
  Watch the TV program Live PD on A&E on Friday and Saturdays nights and see, live and in person, what the police are faced with. Enough of my rant too.

Bill
Edit: Fixed quote.

Yes.  About 90% of those felony arrests on Live PD are   ... " The reason I pulled you over was a burnt out tag light,  and now I can smell pot ".

The smell of weed is their favorite reason to search.  So when the arrest numbers go up,   they hire more police.

 IMO...after the arrest the public is not really any safer.


After they legalize it the police will just be writing a bunch of 'Fix-it tickets'
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 11:41:35 AM by TonyDtorch »

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2017, 10:05:42 AM »
Saying marijuana is a gateway drug appears to make the assumption that if there were no marijuana, there would be no one using harder drugs, and I find that idea preposterous.

My view is that there are a number of people who have some kind of psychological issue and use marijuana, alcohol, or some other drug in an attempt to make themselves feel better.  We seldom, if ever, hear about the people who may try marijuana, alcohol, or other drugs and find that they dont like them, or may use their drug of choice in limited quantities, or in limited circumstances.  Just like most people who drink alcohol, but dont drive while under the influence, there are people who use marijuana, but dont drive while under the influence.  One more note.  I believe the number of people suffering stress these days has increased dramatically, and there is a coincidental increase in drug an alcohol use, and abuse.

Sarge, I certainly agree with you about the people in campgrounds where the RVs are close together who either smoke pot or cigarettes.  That is rude behavior regardless of what they are smoking.

On the issue of concealing, I agree that a small amount of pot is easier to conceal than a 40 ounce bottle of beer, and along that line, meth is easier to conceal, than either of those two.  Also, as I saw in Viet-Nam enough heroin to kill a person was easier to conceal than an ounce or two of pot, so when someone in Viet-Nam decided to crack down on the pot users, and some of the pot users still wanted to do something besides booze, many of them turned to heroin, which was cheap and easy to conceal, so when I left Viet-Nam the 6th Convalescent Center in Cam Rahn Bay was not filled with injured soldiers, it was filled with heroin addicts.  People with the propensity and desire to want to make themselves feel better, will usually find the cheapest, most effective, and easiest to conceal drug of choice.

Although, pot, meth, and alcohol are serious problems in this country, they all pale in comparison to the opioid crisis which was created by drug companies with the complicity of professionals who are able to prescribe these drugs, and more often that not, over prescribe them.  I just read an article that said that about 60,000 people died from drug overdoses in 2016, and the number is expected to go up.

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2017, 10:24:05 AM »
Yes.  About 90% of those felony arrests on Live PD are   ... " The reason I pulled you over was a burnt out tag light,  and now I can smell pot ".

The smell of weed is their favorite reason to search.  So when the arrest numbers go up,   they hire more police and build more prisons.

 IMO...after the arrest the public is not really any safer.


After they legalize it the police will just be writing a bunch of 'Fix-it tickets'
Not quite accurate Tony.  Most of the marijuana finds are only ticketed for small quantities but what those tag lights out more often than not disclose is that about 50 percent of the stops have suspended or revoked licenses, no insurance or harder drugs. Several of the highway patrol stops have uncovered duffel bags filled with marijuana.  I don't find your description of the stops to be accurate at all.  Usually the only reason a marijuana holder is arrested is because of a large quantity or a big mouth.  JMHO.

Bill
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2017, 11:47:13 AM »
You are correct Bill
.
 And if itís legalized the police will need to find need another reason for the detention and search of a suspicious looking person that may end up being cited for not having insurance.

 In reality...Cops don't normally pull silver haired Grampa and Grama over when their Buick has a burnt out tag light.   

And once the dog sits down next to that car.. no more fix-it ticket...a cop now has the right to detain and search all he wants.   The smell of weed is a LEO consent to search tool.  So for that reason I completely understand why the authorities hope itís never legalized.

but I guess that means 50 % of the others with a burnt out tag light were just detained, searched, and ticketed for no big deal. 

But it serves them right...  Damn Hippies  8)

 ( it's a bit like back in Germany if the authorities thought you looked Jewish  ;) )   
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 03:41:08 PM by TonyDtorch »

SargeW

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2017, 03:40:53 PM »
And if itís legalized the police will need to find need another reason for the detention and search of a suspicious looking person that may or may not have insurance.

Your understanding of police procedure and laws are flawed Tony. Even if MJ is legal to use, it is still not, and never will be legal to use in a moving motor vehicle.  The same with any kind of alcohol.  And since it is still possible to be exposed to MJ smoke and be under the influence of it's effects without actually smoking it, any LEO conducting a traffic stop and smelling MJ smoke is still grounds to extend the search, and pull the driver out of the vehicle for a Field Sobriety Test. All because it's "Reasonable" under the law. 

I hope that wasn't while you were driving.

Yes, I have seen numerous times a driver or passenger smoking or rolling a MJ cigarette within a moving car.

And as for concealing, that comment was meant strictly for MJ use and concealment in a motor vehicle. Often very young kids.  I am not going to change anything, or the way society is leaning on the drug issue. All of the opinions stated are the result of years of first hand experience.  As well as Keven Means and Rancher Will.  Most LEO's would probably concur. 

Weather anyone else does, really doesn't matter. We are all free to have our own opinions, and some will never be agreed upon.  That's just one of the reasons why I love this country!
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2017, 03:45:58 PM »
I remember back in 1969 me and some friends were pulled over for 'Driving with Long Hair' right near El Toro Marine base.. this cop just knew we must have some weed on us  (we didn't)... so after we emptied our pockets he removed the rear seat,  spare tire and anything else we had in the car,  stacked (or dropped) it all on the shoulder of the road.

 I was handed a ticket for illegal exhaust ... he said 'have a good evening' and left.  I could have said something..but it would have cost me more.

I'm sure he's nicely retired now,  but, Thank you so much for making the world a safer place Officer Dick... ;D
 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 05:21:39 PM by TonyDtorch »

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2017, 05:33:01 PM »
As of next July, mj will be legal in Canada. The police and the courts will now be able to free up their time to arrest real criminals, and hard drug users instead of busting regular people for smoking a bit of weed. Billions of dollars have been spent by mine and your govts making criminals out of regular citizens who pose no threat to society.I know many professionals, and business owners who on occasion will partake. It is a social thing, just like many people will have a few drinks in a social setting. I agree that if someone asked me which was worse, pot or booze, I would say booze hands down. No one every smoked a joint, and beat up their wife and kids, fought with the neighbors, got arrested for drunk in public, ect ect ect. I dont know anyone who has ruined their lives smoking a bit of pot. I know many that have drank to the  point that they have lost their jobs, their family, and most of the things important to them. Alcohol can take over your life if your not careful. Pot just makes you mellow, and gives you the munchies. I do agree with our govts plan of not legalizing it for young people. It will have similar rules to alcohol. As far as it being a gateway drug, I think the people that get into herion and oxys have a screw loose to begin with. Its usually a one way street, with death at the end.  jmho

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2017, 05:38:31 PM »
But sitting next to someone sitting outside smoking a joint terribly destroy's my experience.  And yes, that has already happened.  And no, cigarettes are not any better.   

I have not had MJ next door (though I have tobacco and I tend to agree)

But back when I lived in Detroit when my car was in the shop I road the buss.. and so did the pot head.. Nuff said.   LIke to make me puke.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2017, 07:23:28 PM »
muskoka guy:

Criminal justice and another massive industries like the big Prescription Drug and Alcohol companies really have control of our legislators with their big money lobbyist.

 it's not likely that congress will ever push to legalize a weed that you can grow in your back yard so that those big contributors to their re-election campaign start losing money.    ( the collateral damage would be a reduction the Drug Cartels revenue too )

 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 07:35:37 PM by TonyDtorch »

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2017, 07:44:59 PM »
I personally think the drug companies who give kickbacks to doctors for prescribing their life wrecking drugs like oxycontin and fentinyl should have a special place in hell. The doctors are just as much at fault for loading the streets with these very hard drugs. Thousands are dying every year from over doses. All in the name of the mighty dollar. Drug companies dont care about your health, they just want your money. Thats why they dont want pot legalized. You can grow it yourself and you dont need them. They probably have a cure for cancer, but dont want it to get out. They make so much money off cancer drugs now, that its robbery. What ever happened to the days when our top scientists and students worked on cures for disease for the betterment of mankind. Greed has taken over the world, and big business rules our lives. 

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2017, 07:59:51 PM »
 be careful..as soon as you say something against Doctors and the establishment you may be labeled as a radical...they know way more than you do.

They can legally help you if they determine you need it .... 8)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 08:52:19 PM by TonyDtorch »

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2017, 08:12:19 PM »
Fascinating conversation happening here. I would like to point out to the law enforcement contributors that yes, the people you deal with have smoked and drank as a precursor to heavier things but not all people who smoke marijuana are going to go on to do harder drugs or ever have any encounters with law enforcement. there are many marijuana smokers who contribute positively to society. I find it no different than having a beer or glass of scotch after work.

To tie into RVing...this is a general PSA that the walls of your RV will not contain the smell of pot. I personally donít mind it at all but at my old park I did have a retired couple in a converted greyhound bus that was asked to leave because their (boring) neighbors complained. I liked them personally...but you could definitely smell it throughout the park lol.
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scottydl

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2017, 08:20:57 PM »
As a former Narcotics Detective, one of my duties was to interview suspects who were arrested for being under the influence of controlled substances, like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine (11550 H&S.) By the way, in California, marijuana was not considered a "controlled substance." It was considered a "dangerous drug."

I asked all of them a lot of "canned" questions, and one interesting fact we learned was that 100% of them started out by experimenting with alcohol AND marijuana before moving on to stronger, more addictive drugs. Most of those using "hard drugs" were still using marijuana. That DOES NOT mean that everyone who uses marijuana is going to move on to harder drugs, but there's clearly a correlation between marijuana and harder drugs.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if an adult wanted to burn their brains out on drugs. It's their life. It's just a shame when it happens to kids and young adults, because their brains haven't developed enough for them to understand the dangers, and some of the damage is irreparable. Those of us who do understand the dangers often set a poor example for them.

I don't care if any adult wishes to pickle their brain with any drug or alcohol, so long as they are not forced to do so. I do care when anyone under the influence of any substance endangers others.

I could not agree more, and have almost identical professional backgrounds and experiences.  Considering that Kevin, Will, and I have all concluded our law enforcement careers, we certainly have no financial interest in the outcome.  And it certainly does not seem like any of us cautious about legal marijuana (in this forum anyway) are proponents of the "Reefer Madness" claims of the 1960's and 70's.

Yes, alcohol and cigarettes are horrible habits with deadly results, and have enormous back-end costs in health care and public safety.  Why on earth would we want to add more legal substances to that list, without properly assessing the potential risks or dangers?

Also legalizing will do little to quell the marijuana black market, just as illegal trading is alive and well for all manners of prescription drugs/painkillers, weapons, and even alcohol/cigarettes that are otherwise legal (with proper taxes paid and rules followed).  Marijuana is the largest criminal "cash crop" in the world.  Does anyone really think profit-seeking criminal enterprises are just going to give up and/or pay taxes to the government?  Hardly.  Most signs indicate that drug cartels will ramp up their efforts, providing an even "better" product for lower prices and violence to control the trade will increase.  That and more focus will be placed on smuggling other drugs into the country to get people addicted to... cue the prevalence of heroin in the last 10 years and the resulting opioid crisis.

Would keeping marijuana illegal prevent all those problems?  Probably not.  No more than it is the miracle drug to cure every medical ailment, as some supporters will claim.  The truth likely resides somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, and I don't think science (or the law) has completely figured out its proper application yet.  Rushing to change laws (medical or criminal) with the allure of short-term tax dollars... and often NO mention of the risks or back-end costs... seems to be a pretty risky exercise as far as public dollars and public welfare is concerned.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2017, 08:58:52 PM »
 I say thank you to our founding fathers for creating a nation of 50 individual states.

I don't want to live in rural Utah or downtown San Francisco.... somewhere in between is good.

In the years to come we will see the actual effects of the decriminalization of weed in Colorado, California and a couple other states.  Europe seems to have handled it ok.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 09:15:28 PM by TonyDtorch »

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2017, 09:15:13 PM »
Another thought on the topic.  Has anyone ever heard anyone say, "I would use marijuana if it were legal, but since it isnt, I wont".  My view is that virtually everyone who wants to use marijuana is.

Paul & Ann  Iowa
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2017, 09:21:35 PM »
Last week...My wife asked Kaiser Medical if she should maybe try CBD oil for her severe arthritis...They informed her if she tested positive for Cannabis they would revoke her prescriptions for pain and anxiety meds and it may likely jeopardize her scheduled knee replacement surgery next year.

   she is currently prescribed  2 - 10mg oxys,   5 times a day for pain.. by a real Doctor.  ( a medical conspiracy ?    hmm...) 

  I like to drive her everywhere she wants to go ..but technically it's legal for her to drive and she feels fine to do so.

   
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 10:03:51 PM by TonyDtorch »

scottydl

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2017, 09:50:49 PM »
Another thought on the topic.  Has anyone ever heard anyone say, "I would use marijuana if it were legal, but since it isnt, I wont".  My view is that virtually everyone who wants to use marijuana is.

Perhaps, but it also stands to reason that when limits (laws) are removed or lessened, people will take advantage.  In my professional experience, the general public stretches laws just slightly over the rule... which then becomes the "norm".  Speed limit is 35, most people will drive 40-45.  Raise the limit to 40, traffic speeds will increase to 45-50.  One of the reasons I personally never did much with alcohol or drugs as a teen was because of the fear of punishment... it did have an impact.  I also had pretty wholesome friends, sober parents, and never had the "party" desire, so my environment helped tremendously.  The many factors worked together.  Take away any/all of those barriers, and more of the general public will be partaking.

If a retired 60yo wants to go smoke a joint, then so be it.  My concern is with the normalization of another form of unhealthy behavior that will creep through all age levels and demographics.  As mentioned somewhere above, adolescent brains are not fully formed and there are documented studies of teens' moderate-to-heavy marijuana usage causing irreversible brain damage as they become adults.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2017, 10:14:32 PM »
  My view is that virtually everyone who wants to use marijuana is.

I agree, and I think a lot of unnecessary time and money is wasted trying to enforce this futile federal law.  Look at the history of the 18th amendment.      It's deja vu all over again.

Made criminals like Joe Kennedy wealthy.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 10:18:03 PM by TonyDtorch »

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2017, 01:42:49 AM »
Perhaps if mental health were a priority,fewer people would be self-medicating.  Improving overall living conditions for everyone might help.  Someone mentioned Vietnam.  I can't think of anything that would be more likely to turn one to heroin.  Not saying we should allow it,just saying that people in horrendous situations will look for some relief.

I would like to know what doctors are expected to use for patients in chronic or severe pain if opioids are frowned upon and MJ is illegal?  I would really like to know how many people died from prescribed opioids compared to heroin or illegally obtained opioids. 

Why would I want MJ to be legal?  Precisely because of the fear of opioids.  As we live longer,we are more likely to face chronic pain and I don't want to live in misery.  No,I don't use it now but want that to be an option.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2017, 06:27:02 AM »

I would like to know what doctors are expected to use for patients in chronic or severe pain if opioids are frowned upon and MJ is illegal?  I would really like to know how many people died from prescribed opioids compared to heroin or illegally obtained opioids. 

Why would I want MJ to be legal?  Precisely because of the fear of opioids.  As we live longer,we are more likely to face chronic pain and I don't want to live in misery.  No,I don't use it now but want that to be an option.

Agree 100 percent.  I was at my doctors just yesterday and asked him if my Tramadol was considered a heavy duty opoid.  His reply shocked me - No, it is only a very mild opiod but be prepared to find it difficult to get because when the government goes wild on something it goes completely over the edge.  My once per day Tramadol is the only thing between me and severe pain during my waking hours.  If removed, would I switch to MJ.  He11 NO.  I already have COPD - why would I want to fill my lungs and brains with that crap.  Boy this thread is sure showing a lot of differing opinions.  I don't care who uses MJ but I don't want them on the road next to me or sitting in any public place next to me.  Those who think Colorado is trouble free better do some better research.  And then we have those who want to blame the police because they are doing their job - enforcing the law.  Just look at your daily newspapers and see how many were shot yesterday or last week.  Stopping for tag lights out is not a completely safe practice.  You try walking up to someone in a car that you don't know and see how safe you feel.  Blue Lives Matter to me.  MJ is a fact of life - a nation of potheads is something to be proud of??  JMHO.

Bill
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John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2017, 07:08:21 AM »
I personally think the drug companies who give kickbacks to doctors for prescribing their life wrecking drugs like oxycontin and fentinyl should have a special place in hell. .

Had some dental work done.. Submitterd for pre-approval to my Insurance.. Paid the co-pay.. Did the job.. (Not all that happy with the result) doctor says "Well get you a prescription for Oxy and you're outta here"  I declined.. Did not need any painkiller, not even aspirin (Left him a sealed bottle)

Got a bill for over 170.00 from the Dental firm..   Belief is they did not get paid by the makers of Oxy.. I've turned it over to the State Atty General. but they keep sending bills. I'm not paying.

I paid the agreed upon amount.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2017, 08:37:57 AM »
The lucrative drug and medical industry is in the business of selling opiates.

They will fight very hard to keep people in prison for using a weed you can grow in your back yard.



And by the way Bill...you can get a MJ pill now.   You don't need to smoke anything.
So, You don't want a pothead driving next to you....but how about my wife ?  it's still legal for her to drive. 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:42:29 AM by TonyDtorch »

Bill N

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2017, 08:41:39 AM »
.
And by the way Bill...you can get a MJ pill now.   You don't need to smoke anything.

Gee, I am thrilled to know that.  I can add it to the 13 I already take.

Bill
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2017, 08:45:47 AM »
Gee, I am thrilled to know that.  I can add it to the 13 I already take.

Bill

Wow!   13 pills everyday..... You probably get Christmas cards from Doctors.    ;)   
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 09:38:24 AM by TonyDtorch »

Paul & Ann

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2017, 09:54:21 AM »
Had some dental work done.. Submitterd for pre-approval to my Insurance.. Paid the co-pay.. Did the job.. (Not all that happy with the result) doctor says "Well get you a prescription for Oxy and you're outta here"  I declined.. Did not need any painkiller, not even aspirin (Left him a sealed bottle)

Got a bill for over 170.00 from the Dental firm..   Belief is they did not get paid by the makers of Oxy.. I've turned it over to the State Atty General. but they keep sending bills. I'm not paying.

I paid the agreed upon amount.

Same for me on the dental work.  I few years ago I had some dental work done.  The dentist wrote me a prescription for oxycontin and Tylenol-3.  When the Novocaine wore off, I took two regular Tylenol, and that was all the pain medication I needed.  No need for the two prescriptions.  Just another medical professional pushing drugs.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2017, 10:11:42 AM »
There are 2 teams here, it's ...         The Pot Heads   vs   The Junkies .

unfortunately.... the Junkies have the Establishment, the Doctors, and the Police   as team sponsors .


Bill N

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2017, 01:34:46 PM »
Wow!   13 pills everyday..... You probably get Christmas cards from Doctors.    ;)   

Not really.  Some are simply in multiples rather than one huge pill.  Others are OTC such as aspirin and naproxin but when you have severe back problems, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and Type 2 diabetes it takes some drugs to keep things in check and, thanks to these drugs, most of my bad conditions have been kept in check for over 20 years.  Be happy if you have good health.  We are not all so fortunate.  Your dislike for doctors and policemen is palpable.  Thankfully, your kind are not in the majority and you live in a country where you are free to express those opinions.

Bill
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2017, 02:00:37 PM »
Yes Bill I am thankful for my good health.      My wife...not so much.      She also has type2,  arthritis, and Parkinson's,  she has her own parking space at the Doctors office. (humor)

I take 2 drugs.....but only when I need them.
 
1. Canibus for anxiety... when my wife has a bad day or I listen to the news.
2. Ibuprofen for pain ....when I overdo a project.

But then,  I'm still a youngster at 65...I think you have me by a couple.   ;D
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 02:09:41 PM by TonyDtorch »

scottydl

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2017, 03:37:25 PM »
The lucrative drug and medical industry is in the business of selling opiates.

They will fight very hard to keep people in prison for using a weed you can grow in your back yard.

People being in prison for simply smoking/using marijuana is one of the many myths of the pro-pot crowd.  It doesn't happen.

Heroin and cocaine are plant based too, they just require more chemical processing, which backwoods labs making crystal meth have proven can be done with the right materials and a little patience.  Although homegrown is not really needed as long as so much is being smuggled into the country, largely through South and Central America.

As citizens, we have to decide at what level we will tolerate a "high society" and normalization of drug use in our communities, medical or recreational.  I'm fine with scientifically-proven and restricted medical use, but we have gotten ourselves (citizens) in the habit of demanding a drug because we feel bad.  (I'm not referring to those who deal with daily chronic pain, cancer treatments, terminal illnesses, etc.)  California's medical marijuana law (for instance) is a joke to call "medical", with how easily the vague symptoms/conditions can be claimed with no proof whatsoever... like "back pain."  That law was recreational as soon as it was signed. 

Opioids arose because people wanted painkillers, and they got them... some legitimately, many overprescribed, and a growing number now on the street.  We ought to proceed with caution and a scientific backing on these issues.
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UTTransplant

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2017, 03:49:22 PM »
I never was interested in smoking weed (or anything else for that matter). But I certainly would be interested in a marijuana brownie or gummy for severe pain instead of an opioid. I hope it gets legalized.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2017, 04:11:32 PM »
Even hard liners agree that there is a serious opiod epidemic in our country.


A study done by the state of Colorado and aired on 60 Minutes last month,  showed after 4 years of MJ legalization the number of opiod overdoses in Colorado is down by 40% from 2014,  and continue falling.

No one predicted that would happen.

Every day in our country more people die from opiod overdoses,  than in all traffic accidents and gun deaths ...combined.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 04:28:16 PM by TonyDtorch »

scottydl

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2017, 04:41:23 PM »
A study done by the state of Colorado and aired on 60 Minutes last month,  showed after 4 years of MJ legalization the number of opiod overdoses in Colorado is down by 40% from 2014,  and continue falling.

No one predicted that would happen.

In that same study, the researchers also acknowledged that their sample size / time frame study is very small, and there is not yet any proof of causation between the two factors... i.e., people who previously injected illegal heroin decided instead to smoke legal marijuana, and therefore lived.  That seems rather unlikely.  The reduction of opioids could also be attributed to increased treatment options, drug diversion programs in criminal justice, etc.

It's important that we look at all the possible data and various factors, so we can pursue those that are proven effective.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2017, 05:45:05 PM »
Two documented things happened at approximately the same time, 

1.    the number of O.Ds in hospitals started falling.

2.    the legalization of cannabis. 

yes, It could be possible those "Just Say No" programs are finally working, or the obvious.   ;)

Through out history in every society,  it's the most cost effective one that always wins... mushrooms,  booze,  pot,  or prescriptions.  Sometimes it's measured by the cost of lives to addiction, as in Heroin and alcohol and now it's laboratory made Heroin called Oxycodone.

Time will tell.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 06:21:48 PM by TonyDtorch »

muskoka guy

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2017, 08:19:16 PM »
Edibles are a large part of the sales of mj based products. I have two friends with MS. Both swear that the use of cannabis helps them with both appetite and coordination. My one friend is so skinny, if she missed one meal she would disappear. According to her, the only thing that helps her eat is the cannabis. I just heard on national radio yesterday that in British Columbia, there have been over 1000 deaths this year alone due to opiod  overdoses. Thats only one province. The bulk of these people dying are young people. Many have stolen the drugs from older peoples medicine cabinets, or have been obtained on the streets, but they originated from a prescription made out from a doctor. Our govt right now is trying to pass a bill that will force doctors to disclose any payments they receive from drug companies. Of course the medical system is fighting it, as they dont want to have the money they are payed cut off. Its alright for our doctors to kill our kids, but smoking that weed in the bush is wrong, and needs to be punished. Pot has been smoked by the masses since the 60s. Nobody went crazy, or had any side effects that have harmed society other than maybe the fact that they smoke. Most of these people would be in their 70s and 80s. Look at Willy Nelson. I saw him two years ago when he was 80 or so. Hasnt lost a thing. He is the poster child for pot smoking.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 05:08:03 PM by muskoka guy »

catblaster

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2017, 08:24:50 PM »
   I wonder if a drug dog will hit on CBD oil or gummies. The oil I take tastes just like an ashtray....a nasty old ashtray! Just dont see how a dog could miss that. The maker claims there is minimal thc and not enough to show up on a test........ What do our LEO's think??
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scottydl

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2017, 09:16:37 PM »
Narcotics dogs can detect & alert to anything with a narcotics odor.  Since oils are a concentrated liquid version containing THC, it certainly seems like it would bear the odor.  Gummies or other edibles, I'm sure the odor is in there.  Dog's noses are downright magical how they work and can separate out odors.  When we walk into a hamburger joint and have a burger & french fries put in front of us, we might smell cooked meat or fried potatoes.  A dog would smell oil, beef, cheese, lettuce, tomato, potatoes, salt, bread (actually flour, eggs, and the other ingredients), and every person standing around... including the ones that left 10 minutes ago but deposited microscopic skin cells around the floor.  Excited/stressed people shed skin cells at faster rates and put off a stronger odor is picked up by the dog even more.

As long as you have a legal prescription and are transporting your medical THC product in the approved fashion your state requires, then you should be fine anyway.  And most of the time, otherwise law-abiding folks will not find themselves in situations where narcotics dogs are being utilized.
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John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #71 on: November 23, 2017, 06:48:34 AM »
The argument (Flawed) for years is that most hard line narcotic users started with MJ so MJ is a gateway drug... The Flaw is they had to start with SOMETHING.. Today many hard line addicts started with PRESCRIPTION medication pushed on them by their doctors.   I could easily have been a victim of that but I declined the 'script since I knew I'd not need it.

But some.. Well.. They start with MJ because people have been telling us for decades (Since the 1960's at least) that it is either A: No worse than alcohol (Which is one of the most deadly substances on earth if you count bodies, More Americans die from Alcohol each year than from WW 1 WW 2 and Korea COMBINED it's that deadly)  or that it is "Mostly Harmless" to borrow a phrase from Douglass Adams' Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

Some, Tried it precisely because it was Illegal.. Like my friend Don and Ray and others who said when they turned 21 (back then that was the legal drinking age in most of the world) all the taste went out of booze.. (I never thought it tasted good).

Some,, Well since they are already involved in illegal drugs.. They go on to ther hard stuff.. Kind of like Beer to Whiskey for a Teen.

But Many Teens never get past Beer.. Or MJ
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #72 on: November 23, 2017, 07:36:11 AM »
   I wonder if a drug dog will hit on CBD oil or gummies. The oil I take tastes just like an ashtray....a nasty old ashtray! Just dont see how a dog could miss that. The maker claims there is minimal thc and not enough to show up on a test........ What do our LEO's think??
Dogs have already picked up on these items on the show LIVE PD.  Those dogs don't miss much.  Interesting too is that they hit on a car and nothing is found but the interior is polluted with fumes that the dog just can't miss.  If an officer can smell the MJ, it is a lead pipe cinch the dog will too but officers do not have sniffers good enough for heroin and meth but the dogs sure do.

Bill
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2017, 08:14:31 AM »
 They could make the roads even more safer if they trained the dogs to sniff out Oxys .

but then some of you guys might be on Live PD .... :)

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.   
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 08:42:18 AM by TonyDtorch »

TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2017, 08:47:19 AM »
LEO are saying today....The Gateway drug to Heroin,  is pain pills.   (Oxys, prescription opiates ect.,   AKA "hillbilly Heroin") . 

 Not MJ.

Everyday people get hooked on prescriptions.. then find out they can buy actual Heroin cheaper.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 08:53:12 AM by TonyDtorch »

Paul & Ann

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2017, 09:13:59 AM »
I saw this story on opiates this morning and thought this statistic was appalling.

One study from the British Medical Journal found that up to 22 percent of pregnant women in the U.S. are prescribed opioids, likely contributing to the rise in NAS.

http://www.kcci.com/article/pregnant-women-who-act-on-doctor-s-orders-could-be-putting-babies-at-risk-in-opioid-epidemic/13869925



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John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2017, 03:54:09 PM »
LEO are saying today....The Gateway drug to Heroin,  is pain pills.   (Oxys, prescription opiates ect.,   AKA "hillbilly Heroin") . 

Did not know that but it is basically what I said up-thread.. As I said, Dentist offered me Oxy after a procedure where I did not think it was needed.. And as usual when it comes to My body. I was right. I spent less than a dollar on a bottle of Aspirin and left the still sealed bottle on his desk.

Only once have I ever wanted HIGH POWER pain killers and taken them.. I had an impacted Root, That was Friday Night (Daughter just had one too as it turns out).. I took Vicoden till Monday (Which happened to be my Birthday) When the Dentist drilled and killed the root. Best Birthday Present ever cause walking into the office I needed Strong Pain killers,, Walking out the Pain was a memory, nothing more.. I'd just as soon not do that again.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #77 on: November 24, 2017, 07:57:12 AM »
I just had seven teeth extracted.  I have no shame for taking oxycodone and hydrocodone in the week after.  They were generic, so I don't know that any drug company would be giving the dentist kickbacks.  I am happy to report that I have not become a crazed drug seeker,drugged driver or anything else. 
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2017, 08:02:16 AM »
I just had seven teeth extracted.  I have no shame for taking oxycodone and hydrocodone in the week after.  They were generic, so I don't know that any drug company would be giving the dentist kickbacks.  I am happy to report that I have not become a crazed drug seeker,drugged driver or anything else.

Be thankful you never have chronic pain.   Some things that really hurt never heal.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 08:08:04 AM by TonyDtorch »

Pugapooh

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2017, 09:30:10 AM »
Actually, I do have bouts of pain that OTCs don't touch.  My doctor just doesn't seem to care when I try ti explain.  So,I do know how it can be to hurt every day.  The quality of life feels like zero sometimes.  Hence,why I believe people need options if not opioids. 
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Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2017, 10:20:05 AM »
My cousin Richard lives in a house with two other vets. Richard and one of the other vets are Vietnam vets, the third guy is Gulf One vet. Richard is 100% disabled and I don't know the percentage of the other two. All have problems getting their med's from the VA. All are in constant pain. Since they get their meds at different times of the month they borrow from each other to control their pain. As a side note they were sitting around talking about their experiences one night and Richard and the other Vietnam vet realized they were in the same battle together.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2017, 10:29:11 AM »
I agree. Those guys should likely be 100% disabled.  Sadly, It sounds like their military service is about all they have left now.

a couple years of service ( many times involuntary)  may have cost those and many other Vets a 100% chance of a productive life.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 10:39:02 AM by TonyDtorch »

catblaster

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2017, 07:02:41 PM »
  When I asked the VA about refilling my pain meds (tramadol and hydrocodone) they refused and said they would rather work on my diet instead to reduce inflammation.....OK..nevermind
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2017, 07:27:07 PM »
I have a Vet friend that gets opioid pain killers from VA.
They told him if his blood doesn't show more traces of them, his prescription will be canceled.

They don't want him selling them on Craigs List.

They offer them to me but not with THC in my blood. I always turn them down.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 07:31:12 PM by TonyDtorch »

Bill N

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #84 on: November 25, 2017, 08:39:07 AM »
Thankfully as a retiree I am not eligible for VA.  Instead TriCare For Life serves as my Medicare supplement and it is great.  I have a very good relationship with my doctor and we had a good discussion recently where he told me that the government medical agencies are putting a huge amount of pressure on doctors to not treat pain as they have been.  People think every doctor is overprescribing and that is simply not true but every doctor is being told by Medicare that there is a big problem and that some will have to suffer to keep the spread of opioids and other pain meds down.    He also told me that during the Obama years what people called Death Panels actually did exist but not as a panel but as directives telling doctors to slow down on standard testing for senior related ailments.  The prostate test is one example.  He said they have been told not to offer it to older people (I forget exact age) as a matter of course but only if they request the test.  His summary of what he saw during the Obama years - if they are old keep treatments to a minimum.  That to me = death panels.  Thankfully I have never tried MJ and have no desire.

Bill
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John From Detroit

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #85 on: November 25, 2017, 04:37:08 PM »
You have some false news there..

We have 3 groups of people involved in what you are calling "Death Panels"

Doctors
Lawyers
Insurance companies.

A man goes to his doctor.. Conplains of a headache. IN  the old days the doctor examined the head, Checked Blood Pressure (A common cause of headaches) and found out what was wrong and cured his complaint and the patient left happy.

But today we have lawyers advertising... You may be the victin of a bad doctor.

So now the man goes in with a headache, The doctor cures it but misses te gangrene in his toe.. SUE THE DOC, SUE THE DOC

So the Doctor now runs all kinds of tests that have NOTHING to do with headaces. Least he miss somehting elsewhere.

And We have insurance comnpanies demanding the doctors run fewer tests.

You mentioned "The obama years"

This information comes fromn a doctor I used to chat with back in the 1990s  LONG befor Obama, and yes I remember his name and the hospital he iis assoicated with...

Dr. Aurturo Rolla, Endo,  Deaconess Hospital, Boston .
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #86 on: November 25, 2017, 06:14:17 PM »
Thankfully as a retiree I am not eligible for VA.

Bill
To just a Veteran (not a retiree), That's about the same as when Congress says..."Thankfully we're not eligible for Obamacare".   

You government workers get nothing but the best...... ;D
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 06:30:16 PM by TonyDtorch »

dave54

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #87 on: November 25, 2017, 07:11:22 PM »
To just a Veteran (not a retiree), That's about the same as when Congress says..."Thankfully we're not eligible for Obamacare".   

You government workers get nothing but the best...... ;D

FYI -- members of Congress are covered by obamacare.
Just the members.  Staffers are the Federal Employee program. .
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SeilerBird

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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #88 on: December 01, 2017, 12:53:01 PM »
Full disclosure first: In the mid nineties I ran the Santa Cruz Cannabis Buyers Club in Santa Cruz, California. It was the second dispensary in the world. We got together with the first club in San Francisco and got Proposition 215 written and passed, the first time marijuana was legalized anywhere in the world since the 30s and the start of the current push to legalize marijuana. There are currently 29 states and the District of Columbia that have legalized cannabis in some form. Mexico and Canada will be legalizing it next year along with many other countries around the world.

As I said, the only people interested in keeping cannabis illegal are those that have a financial interest in doing so. All the people in this thread supporting keeping it illegal have ties to law enforcement. They are not interested in making more arrests for more employment. It all has to do with civil forfeiture. In this country that is a controversial legal process in which law enforcement officers take assets from persons suspected of involvement with crime or illegal activity without necessarily charging the owners with wrongdoing. So the cops can come into your house, confiscate anything of value and not even arrest you. That includes your house, your car, your boat or any other high ticket item. That is the reason why they sent 12 cops with automatic weapons on a simple cannabis bust. This is one of LEOs main money making schemes that is funding all those automatic weapons and SWAT teams. Trample on our rights doesn't seem to bother them at all. No wonder they want to keep it illegal, they don't want a major revenue stream cut off. And the fact that it is retire LEO supporting keeping it illegal is meaningless. Cops always support other cops no matter what. I know, I use to be a sheriff in Ventura County in the 80s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States

The lies they are telling is pathetic. Gateway drug. That is so stupid it is pathetic. Calling cannabis a gateway drug to anything is just beyond ridiculous. It is a stupid as claiming mother's milk is a gateway drug to alcohol since 99% of all alcoholics started on mother's milk.

The claim that cannabis somehow inhibits the growth of a child's brain is equally as stupid. There never has been and there never will be any studies to prove this. It is just a lie made up by the do gooders to convince people of the evils of cannabis. How evil can something be if you have to make things up to prove it is dangerous? In order to claim cannabis somehow retards brain development would require a bunch of young teenagers who had never smoked to get a brain scan, then have them smoke for a few years and then do another brain scan. That is not going to happen. Now I am not advocating that young people smoke cannabis, I am just claiming that these claims are hogwash.

As far as driving when stoned goes I personally feel someone who is stoned is a better driver than someone who is sober. I say this because during the 80s and 90s I drove 10s of thousands of miles while stoned or with someone driving who was stoned. I have never had an accident in my life. If I were flying in a private plane and the pilot wanted to share a joint with me I would gladly sit in the cockpit and share it with him. The people who have never been stoned seem to think that being stoned is somehow the same as being drunk. It is apples and oranges. The story of the guy stopping 50 feet from the light is pure fantasy made up by someone who has never been stoned.

The people who think they are protecting out children by keeping cannabis illegal are sadly misinformed. Alcohol is currently killing 88,000 people a year in the US directly, many more indirectly. Prescription drug use is a lot more than that. If these people were really worried about the health of their children they should be addressing these problems instead. Cannabis kills no one. The only real danger of using cannabis comes with the fact you might be arrested. According to the ACLUís original analysis, marijuana arrests now account for over half of all drug arrests in the United States. Of the 8.2 million marijuana arrests between 2001 and 2010, 88% were for simply having marijuana. Nationwide, the arrest data revealed one consistent trend: significant racial bias. Despite roughly equal usage rates, Blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana.

In 1919 the moral majority made alcohol illegal and crime skyrocketed. In 1933 prohibition was repealed and the do gooders looked around for some other way to run people's lives for them. They noticed many Mexicans, blacks and jazz musicians were using cannabis so they made it illegal by running a nasty campaign and made it illegal in 1937. Then in 1971 Nixon was really pissed because the younger generation did not support his stupid war and blamed the whole opposition on drugs, hippies, the Beatles and John Lennon. Nixon commissioned the Shafer Commission to study the problem. The Shafer Commission reported back that marijuana was relatively safe and should be legalized. Nixon promptly buried that report and started the war on drugs. That war has been an absolute failure. Drug use is the same today per capita as it was in 1971. The only difference is the cops are richer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafer_Commission

The war on drugs has had no effect on drug use in this country however it has made criminals out of millions of people for using a simple plant. The total cost of the war on drugs is estimated at one trillion dollars so far. That is your tax money being wasted which is a lot more than the cost of cannabis overdoses on emergency rooms. But really the war on drugs has been a war on minorities since minorities get arrested far more often than whites do in this country.
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Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #89 on: December 01, 2017, 01:35:56 PM »
I am not so hard on LEOs or retired LEOs because I believe that when they see someone high on pot, it is not just the effects of the pot they are seeing, but a person who has psychological disorders and are using pot to try and make themselves feel better.  Just as the difference between seeing a alcoholic drunk driver as compared to someone who has a couple of beers from time but never drives drunk.

I have said for years that there are people out there who give pot a bad name, just as there are people out there who give alcohol a bad name.

I agree that asset forfeiture is out of hand.  Everyday you read of people being ripped off by this unholy process.
Paul & Ann  Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
http://stoughrvadventure.blogspot.com/

spencerpj

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  • Indianapolis, IN
Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #90 on: December 01, 2017, 02:17:50 PM »
I smoked it once, but did not inhale. :D
2005 GMC Yukon XL, 1500, 4WD
2012 Puma, 19fs

scottydl

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  • Central IL
Re: Marijuana side topic
« Reply #91 on: December 01, 2017, 06:51:43 PM »
This topic had some good conversations and debates from various people with various life experiences, but it appears the thread has run its course.  Several posts had to be removed due to language/content violations, which is the reason the thread was locked.
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
- 2008 Forest River Wildwood 32BHDS
- 1995 Chevrolet Suburban C2500 tow vehicle
- 1994 Thor Residency motorhome... owned 2007-2012

 

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