Marijuana side topic

Paul & Ann said:

My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.

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After working around people who were drinking and smoking and living through my young years of drinking if one of the two substances should be illegal it would absolutely be alcohol.  I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.

I know, I know people who do the speed limit are the dangerous ones because they are holding up the flow of traffic. "Flow" of course being all the law breakers.

I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.

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Reminds me of a car trip home from a party in the 70s. The driver was stoned and when he stopped for the traffic light cars behind us started honking their horns. Someone said I think you need to get closer to the light. He'd stopped about 50' from the light. It took him two more tries and lots of horns to get to the light. By the time he got to the light it had turned green. 

Dragginourbedaround said:

Reminds me of a car trip home from a party in the 70s. The driver was stoned and when he stopped for the traffic light cars behind us started honking their horns. Someone said I think you need to get closer to the light. He'd stopped about 50' from the light. It took him two more tries and lots of horns to get to the light. By the time he got to the light it had turned green. 

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okay,  so I'm curious ...was it one of those 'Pot Only' parties, or was there any alcohol involved ?

It's a well know fact alcohol effects many other drugs too.

In my young and stupid days, I more than once woke up and wondered who drove home from a party or something last night, and was shocked to find out that I did.
We were so very fortunate in those days.

In later years, I drove a tow truck, and had to clean up after many who were not as fortunate as I was.
Someone can be impaired, and still take care of the business of getting home. It is often the various distractions that actually cause the accidents. Sober people can usually handle distractions better than stoned or drunk folks.

okay,  so I'm curious ...was it one of those 'Pot Only' parties, or was there any alcohol involved ?

It's a well know fact alcohol effects many other drugs too.

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Pretty sure it was just pot, but it was the 70s so...

LarsMac said:

Sober people can usually handle distractions better than stoned or drunk folks.

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there are two distinct types of MJ, one helps you relax and sleep, and the other type actually enhances focus and creativity.

Just like Prozac or Ritalin, Xanax allows some people to relax and focus; different drugs effect people differently and dosage is everything. 

The joke back in the 60's was if you see a cop.... speed up so he doesn't think you're stoned...it was just overdose focus. 

IMO...It sure was fun to 'focus' on the music at a concert.

Paul & Ann said:

My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.

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  ) ) )

QZ said:

After working around people who were drinking and smoking and living through my young years of drinking if one of the two substances should be illegal it would absolutely be alcohol.  I remember one guy at work who got buzzed all the time and I often passed him on the freeway when heading home. He'd be in the right lane doing the speed limit with both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead while everyone went flying by. He was probably the safest one out there. He wasn't speeding or weaving in and out or tailgating or texting or getting a bj. Crazy.

I know, I know people who do the speed limit are the dangerous ones because they are holding up the flow of traffic. "Flow" of course being all the law breakers.

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Drunk people run the red light while stoners stop and watch the pretty colors change!
Back many years ago when I was pushing a crew of fitters and welders I would much rather have my welders smoked just a little They would throw the hood down and stay under it as long as someone fed them welding rods. The paranoia kept them looking over their shoulder and therefore cautious. No argument, no fights just laughter and sparks flying. Lunch and breaktime usually took longer than normal.

I just can't understand why alcohol is legal and MJ is not.  We know it is a waste of resources to chase after users and sellers.  Like Prohibition,it does not work.  The government could be raising revenue.  Driving under the influence would still be illegal.  What is the big deal?

IMO...the 'big deal' is how much revenue the big legal drug and alcohol companies will lose.

LarsMac said:

In my young and stupid days, I more than once woke up and wondered who drove home from a party or something last night, and was shocked to find out that I did.
We were so very fortunate in those days.

In later years, I drove a tow truck, and had to clean up after many who were not as fortunate as I was.
Someone can be impaired, and still take care of the business of getting home. It is often the various distractions that actually cause the accidents. Sober people can usually handle distractions better than stoned or drunk folks.

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The vomit and hangovers were nothing compared to having the old man see my shoes sitting on the hood of my car one morning. One of my very considerate drinking buddies had dropped them off. It must have been a heck of a party. One morning  my wife said where is the car. I walked over to the kitchen window and pulled the curtain back. NO CAR! Where the heck did I leave that dang thing!

Side Side not on MJ.

There is a headline on Facebook this week. and I'm sure it's not going away.. Made it into "This is True" which is a fairly researched News letter (Yesterday's Premimum edition) about "FIrst death due to Marijuana Overdose" (A baby)

FAKE NEWS it is.. The baby died from heart problems.. There was a TRACE of the active chemical in MJ because of 2nd hand smoke but it is NOT what killed the baby (I did say This Is True is well researched, also written by a medical professional (EMT))

I do know of deaths that are tracable back to MJ.. but MJ is not the direct cause (Self Inflicted Gunshot in the one I know of).

Paul & Ann said:

My point was that when a driver who is impaired gets into and accident, the impairment is always the cause, with the implication that if the person had not been impaired, they wouldnt have gotten into an accident, but with 50% or more of the accidents being caused by people who are not impaired, blaming people who are over the limit on alcohol, or being high, may not actually be the cause of the accidents they are involved in.

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If a person is impaired, it will always be a factor in a traffic incident. And just as deadly is cell phone use while driving. Actually any distracted driving is deadly, regardless of the cause. All it takes is one visit to a traffic collision scene and observe mangled bodies all over the road to trash any argument contrary to that statement (I have).

And unfortunately there is another aspect of MJ use that does affect me as an RV'er. As it happens we travel to and visit many campgrounds as full timers now. I can be camped next to someone in the next site sitting outside or inside for that matter, quietly sipping an alcoholic beverage, and never be aware.  But sitting next to someone sitting outside smoking a joint terribly destroy's my experience.  And yes, that has already happened.  And no, cigarettes are not any better. 

And the other issue is that because MJ is easier to conceal and carry than an alcoholic beverage, casual use in a motor vehicle is also climbing. (As I can easily see from my elevated driving position in the RV).  So my experiences with MJ (or any illicit or prescribed drug) match Keven Means.  Just my .02 cents. 

Kevin Means said:

I asked all of them a lot of "canned" questions, and one interesting fact we learned was that 100% of them started out by experimenting with alcohol AND marijuana before moving on to stronger, more addictive drugs. Most of those using "hard drugs" were still using marijuana. That DOES NOT mean that everyone who uses marijuana is going to move on to harder drugs, but there's clearly a correlation between marijuana and harder drugs.

Kev

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Thanks for that rant Kev.  You confirmed what I have believed all along.  Marijuana is now nothing more than an introduction to harder drugs.  The ability of the federal government to totally ignore what is happening within individual states that choose to legalize it despite it being against federal law is appalling.  I am happy to have grown up in a non-drug environment but it is not too difficult to see what this one particular supposedly innocent drug is doing to society.  Yes alcohol is a problem and always will be but it does not lead to even more destructive forms of alcohol. As for medical marijuana, the fact that every Tom, Dick and Harry can get a card is proof that the system is totally out of control. I have yet to see any study that definitively proves the value of medical marijuana other than to provide a false sense of happiness.  Watch the TV program Live PD on A&E on Friday and Saturdays nights and see, live and in person, what the police are faced with. Enough of my rant too.

Bill
Edit: Fixed quote.

And the other issue is that because MJ is easier to conceal and carry than an alcoholic beverage, casual use in a motor vehicle is also climbing. (As I can easily see from my elevated driving position in the RV).  So my experiences with MJ (or any illicit or prescribed drug) match Keven Means.  Just my .02 cents.

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I hope that wasn't while you were driving.

Bill N said:

  Watch the TV program Live PD on A&E on Friday and Saturdays nights and see, live and in person, what the police are faced with. Enough of my rant too.

Bill
Edit: Fixed quote.

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Yes.  About 90% of those felony arrests on Live PD are  ... " The reason I pulled you over was a burnt out tag light,  and now I can smell pot ".

The smell of weed is their favorite reason to search.  So when the arrest numbers go up,  they hire more police.

IMO...after the arrest the public is not really any safer.


After they legalize it the police will just be writing a bunch of 'Fix-it tickets'

Saying marijuana is a gateway drug appears to make the assumption that if there were no marijuana, there would be no one using harder drugs, and I find that idea preposterous.

My view is that there are a number of people who have some kind of psychological issue and use marijuana, alcohol, or some other drug in an attempt to make themselves feel better.  We seldom, if ever, hear about the people who may try marijuana, alcohol, or other drugs and find that they dont like them, or may use their drug of choice in limited quantities, or in limited circumstances.  Just like most people who drink alcohol, but dont drive while under the influence, there are people who use marijuana, but dont drive while under the influence.  One more note.  I believe the number of people suffering stress these days has increased dramatically, and there is a coincidental increase in drug an alcohol use, and abuse.

Sarge, I certainly agree with you about the people in campgrounds where the RVs are close together who either smoke pot or cigarettes.  That is rude behavior regardless of what they are smoking.

On the issue of concealing, I agree that a small amount of pot is easier to conceal than a 40 ounce bottle of beer, and along that line, meth is easier to conceal, than either of those two.  Also, as I saw in Viet-Nam enough heroin to kill a person was easier to conceal than an ounce or two of pot, so when someone in Viet-Nam decided to crack down on the pot users, and some of the pot users still wanted to do something besides booze, many of them turned to heroin, which was cheap and easy to conceal, so when I left Viet-Nam the 6th Convalescent Center in Cam Rahn Bay was not filled with injured soldiers, it was filled with heroin addicts.  People with the propensity and desire to want to make themselves feel better, will usually find the cheapest, most effective, and easiest to conceal drug of choice.

Although, pot, meth, and alcohol are serious problems in this country, they all pale in comparison to the opioid crisis which was created by drug companies with the complicity of professionals who are able to prescribe these drugs, and more often that not, over prescribe them.  I just read an article that said that about 60,000 people died from drug overdoses in 2016, and the number is expected to go up.

TonyDtorch said:

Yes.  About 90% of those felony arrests on Live PD are  ... " The reason I pulled you over was a burnt out tag light,  and now I can smell pot ".

The smell of weed is their favorite reason to search.  So when the arrest numbers go up,  they hire more police and build more prisons.

IMO...after the arrest the public is not really any safer.


After they legalize it the police will just be writing a bunch of 'Fix-it tickets'

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Not quite accurate Tony.  Most of the marijuana finds are only ticketed for small quantities but what those tag lights out more often than not disclose is that about 50 percent of the stops have suspended or revoked licenses, no insurance or harder drugs. Several of the highway patrol stops have uncovered duffel bags filled with marijuana.  I don't find your description of the stops to be accurate at all.  Usually the only reason a marijuana holder is arrested is because of a large quantity or a big mouth.  JMHO.

Bill

You are correct Bill
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And if it?s legalized the police will need to find need another reason for the detention and search of a suspicious looking person that may end up being cited for not having insurance.

In reality...Cops don't normally pull silver haired Grampa and Grama over when their Buick has a burnt out tag light. 

And once the dog sits down next to that car.. no more fix-it ticket...a cop now has the right to detain and search all he wants.  The smell of weed is a LEO consent to search tool.  So for that reason I completely understand why the authorities hope it?s never legalized.

but I guess that means 50 % of the others with a burnt out tag light were just detained, searched, and ticketed for no big deal. 

But it serves them right...  Damn Hippies  8)

( it's a bit like back in Germany if the authorities thought you looked Jewish  ) 

TonyDtorch said:

And if it?s legalized the police will need to find need another reason for the detention and search of a suspicious looking person that may or may not have insurance.

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Your understanding of police procedure and laws are flawed Tony. Even if MJ is legal to use, it is still not, and never will be legal to use in a moving motor vehicle.  The same with any kind of alcohol.  And since it is still possible to be exposed to MJ smoke and be under the influence of it's effects without actually smoking it, any LEO conducting a traffic stop and smelling MJ smoke is still grounds to extend the search, and pull the driver out of the vehicle for a Field Sobriety Test. All because it's "Reasonable" under the law. 

Dragginourbedaround said:

I hope that wasn't while you were driving.

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Yes, I have seen numerous times a driver or passenger smoking or rolling a MJ cigarette within a moving car.

And as for concealing, that comment was meant strictly for MJ use and concealment in a motor vehicle. Often very young kids.  I am not going to change anything, or the way society is leaning on the drug issue. All of the opinions stated are the result of years of first hand experience.  As well as Keven Means and Rancher Will.  Most LEO's would probably concur. 

Weather anyone else does, really doesn't matter. We are all free to have our own opinions, and some will never be agreed upon.  That's just one of the reasons why I love this country!