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Author Topic: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers  (Read 1178 times)

colorado_rv

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Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« on: December 07, 2017, 01:42:13 PM »
Hi all,

I'm apologizing in advance for what I'm sure is an 'eye-roll' moment for most of you seasoned RV veterans out there...yes, I have a tow vehicle question.

We have a 2017 Ford F-350 Lariat 6.7 Diesel 4x4 Long Bed Crew Cab SRW with 3.55 rear end. We are in our first year of RVing, and of course have decided that the 2017 Winnebago Minnie 2455BH travel trailer we purchased will not meet our needs since acquiring 2 Vespa GTV300 scooters. Originally we had thought we would just load them in the truck bed, but quickly learned that loading and unloading 350 lb. scooters while camping is not easy or convenient, especially when searching for suitable places to load on an incline.

Fast forward to now and we have begun our search for a fifth wheel toy hauler...

The models we like are enormous and may seem excessive given our present situation, but that's another downfall we didn't anticipate in our first travel trailer...entertaining space. We've been camping with friends and have found that at night or in inclement weather, it's nice to be able to come inside and enjoy a glass of wine together sometimes. Also, we really like to cook and need more counter space for prep/dining/other appliances. We have two teenage daughters and have gravitated towards toy haulers also because of the feeling of a separate bedroom area for the girls when the scooters are unloaded, possibly with their own half bath.

Here are the models/floorplans we like the best so far (in no particular order):

2018 Keystone Fuzion 427
2018 Grand Design Momentum 399TH
2018 Heartland Cyclone 3600

So here's the million dollar question - can we handle these safely, even if not necessarily recommended? I've seen so many answers here back and forth, and one minute we think we're fine and the next we're questioning if we can pull ANY fifth wheel, which seems crazy given the truck we purchased we thought was future-proofing ourselves.

I'd also welcome any feedback anyone has on these floorplans, manufacturers, etc., or any others we should consider. Thank you all!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 01:57:14 PM by colorado_rv »
2017 Ford F-350 Crew Cab LB SRW 6.7L Diesel
2017 Winnebago Minnie 2455BH TT
2017 Vespa GTV300
2017 Vespa GTS300 Super

Lynx0849

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 01:57:46 PM »
The issue will be pin weight.

Check the white & yellow sticker on the drivers door post. It will list your carrying capacity for Your truck.

Look up the GVWR for each trailer. Take 20% to be pin weight. If that plus all the stuff in the truck including passengers is less than the sticker, you are good to go.

I planned to do what you are and concluded that for the size toy hauler I wanted I needed a DWR truck.

So, plan B is a tt toy hauler and a 1 ton SRW truck for now. Later, maybe I will upgrade truck & trailer.

colorado_rv

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  • Posts: 6
Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 02:25:39 PM »
Ok, that's the first time I've heard someone refer to THAT sticker...I've been looking at the white one and trying to make sense of all of that!

So the yellow and white sticker says "Tire and Loading Information" and should never exceed 3,061 lbs.. The pin weight on most of these trailers is already at 3,000 lbs...I think the Momentum 399TH is 4,000!

I guess my follow-up question to that is, can't I modify my carrying capacity fairly easily by putting beefier tires (rated for more weight) on the truck? Or adding an air bag?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 03:00:25 PM by colorado_rv »
2017 Ford F-350 Crew Cab LB SRW 6.7L Diesel
2017 Winnebago Minnie 2455BH TT
2017 Vespa GTV300
2017 Vespa GTS300 Super

john owens

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  • Posts: 507
Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 04:54:51 PM »
We live in a community around Palm Springs that attracts snowbirds each winter. The whether here is splendid this time of year. In my observation 8 out of ten 5th wheel pullers are 1 ton trucks. There are a few high roller Canadians here that have the big rig type trucks that pull there cyclones. I would have to say you can easily load2 tons//
or more in that Ford. I would suggest getting a fiver with a triple axle...I think those are better built my self. ;D
2011 Winnebago 37F Class A  2012 Unlimited JK 2001 HD roadking  1964 Manx 1641cc buggy 1985 22'Lazy Daze Class C 2007 Chaparrel 26' deck boat..Thats all folks!!

steveblonde

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 05:18:06 PM »
Ok, that's the first time I've heard someone refer to THAT sticker...I've been looking at the white one and trying to make sense of all of that!

So the yellow and white sticker says "Tire and Loading Information" and should never exceed 3,061 lbs.. The pin weight on most of these trailers is already at 3,000 lbs...I think the Momentum 399TH is 4,000!

I guess my follow-up question to that is, can't I modify my carrying capacity fairly easily by putting beefier tires (rated for more weight) on the truck? Or adding an air bag?


this topic keep comming round and round if you look you will find  several threads on this topic

the short answer is NO the vehicle capacity is set at the factory adding air bags or tires DOESNOT change the little decal as deffined by law = do you see people pulling those trailers with your truck - YES can it be done YES is it LEGAL +++++ NO

sorry i wish i had better news if you want one of those toy haulers buy a dually
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 05:21:35 PM by steveblonde »
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2014 F150 Ecoboost Reg cab (company truck) daily driver
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded  5167lbs cargo/weight capacity
Selling truck parts for 15 yrs plus
" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh

xrated

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2017, 05:58:27 PM »
We live in a community around Palm Springs that attracts snowbirds each winter. The whether here is splendid this time of year. In my observation 8 out of ten 5th wheel pullers are 1 ton trucks. There are a few high roller Canadians here that have the big rig type trucks that pull there cyclones. I would have to say you can easily load2 tons//
or more in that Ford.
I would suggest getting a fiver with a triple axle...I think those are better built my self. ;D

And I would have to say.......You are totally wrong!  So you are suggesting/telling him that putting 4000+ lbs in a truck that has a payload of 3000 lbs is OK?  Really?  Sorry, but that's horrible advice and I sincerely hope the O.P. ignores it completely!
2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually King Ranch Diesel
2017 Keystone Fuzion Impact 303
Track Bike  2008 GSX-R750
"If it ain't Fast......It ain't Fun

grashley

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  • Western KY for now.
Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2017, 06:53:41 PM »
As others have said, there are lots of people out there who pull similar FW  TH with F350 SRW and even F250!!  THEY ARE GROSSLY OVERWEIGHT if they have only 3000# payload - or less!!

The yellow placard is what your truck payload is.  PERIOD.  It can not be raised without a certified engineer approved by the state signing off on the modifications.  It is more than just tires load limits or air bags.  The chassis, brakes, rear axle, springs, suspension, weight distribution, etc are all included in this GVWR and Payload limit.

With your truck, the weight of all passengers, FW hitch, other cargo in the truck, and the true pin wt of the FW can not exceed 3061#.

It is a really nice truck!  Note my sig.  I have a very similar 2013 F350.   My payload is 3453# and I would be overweight with your payload OR my payload and two daughters.

ALL IS NOT LOST!!  As Lynx suggested, a TT  TH  only places 10% - 15% of its gross wt on the hitch, compared to 20% for a FW.  Hopefully, you can find a TT style TH that meets your needs and your weight limits.
Preacher Gordon, DW Debbie
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS  Progressive HW50C
Andersen Ultimate hitch
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4   TST TMS  Garmin 760
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

Boonieman

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 07:28:56 PM »
I basically made the same mistake. I bought a new 2015 F-350 short bed SRW 6.7 Powerstroke. Shortly after my better half bought a 2011 Fuzion 322 toyhauler. When I picked it up, it felt like a lot of weight. Truck pulled it just fine and didnít sag at all, but it just made me nervous. I ended up taking a big financial hit and traded for a dually. It cost me, but what a difference. And my toy hauler is no where near the size you are looking at. But it was worth it for my peace of mind and enjoyment of towing. I didnít really want a dually because of the fat ďbuttĒ, but I got over that once I got used to it I really love the way it tows. But you can get a toy hauler that your truck can tow within itís rating, just not the ones you are looking at. I have felt your pain, believe me.
2016 Chevrolet Dually/Duramax
2011 Fuzion 322
2016 Harley Trike
3 cherished dogs, Moo, Molly, Mia the one eyed pup 😊
Originally from South Dakota, currently reside in Kentucky

RVRAC

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 08:18:58 PM »
As others have said, you need a 3500 DRW for what you are looking at.  You need a bigger truck or s significant smaller toy hauler. Sorry!
2017 Leprechaun 311 FS
Toad: 2016 Jeep Patriot
American Dolly
Home: WI
Snowbird 6 months/yr.

longhaul

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 09:28:17 PM »
Quote
So here's the million dollar question - can we handle these safely, even if not necessarily recommended? I've seen so many answers here back and forth, and one minute we think we're fine and the next we're questioning if we can pull ANY fifth wheel, which seems crazy given the truck we purchased we thought was future-proofing ourselves.
The '17 F350 srw with the 7330 rawr will have the highest payload capability. However your diesel/crew cab/4x4/long bed is a very heavy truck which eats up payloads.
 These trucks rear axle can weigh in the  3400-3500 lb range leaving a 3800 lbs for a payload in the bed before exceeding a tire/wheel or rear spring pack.

 The F350 drw with its big 9900 rawr with 6k-7k payloads in the bed is your only option for those size trailers hitch weights.

john owens

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 11:01:37 PM »
Xrated I would have to say you worry too much. The numbers I looked up for the ford says its within perameters to pull his choices. I believe the numbers are purposely on the light side myself to try and keep the population in check with there towing choices..if ya know what I mean.But then again I never go with the status quo... :o
2011 Winnebago 37F Class A  2012 Unlimited JK 2001 HD roadking  1964 Manx 1641cc buggy 1985 22'Lazy Daze Class C 2007 Chaparrel 26' deck boat..Thats all folks!!

kdbgoat

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 05:50:35 AM »
Well, the OP posted his actual payload for his truck, and xrated is correct. Personally, I don't think giving advice on a forum that is suggesting something potentially illegal, besides potentially unsafe, is a wise thing to do. Just Like I have said about F-250's vs F-350's. They both can be equipped with the same "everything" except the badges on the hood and the sticker on the door. Carrying/towing more than the sticker allows is potentially illegal.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


2016 Leprechaun 319DS

xrated

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2017, 06:13:22 AM »
Xrated I would have to say you worry too much. The numbers I looked up for the ford says its within perameters to pull his choices. I believe the numbers are purposely on the light side myself to try and keep the population in check with there towing choices..if ya know what I mean.But then again I never go with the status quo... :o

Then you've looked up the wrong parameters!  Check out Ford's website in the towing guide area and make sure that you pay special attention to what they say about NEVER exceeding ANY of the weight capacities of the vehicle.  This includes GVWR, RAWR, FAWR, The combined towing wight rating, Cargo Carrying Capacity.....also known as Payload.....it all there!  That warning doesn't give you the option to pick and choose which one or two to abide by and ignore the rest.  It states that NONE of the weight capacities should be exceeded!  You can't get much clearer than that for a warning.  Whether or not you choose to agree/abide by it is up to you........but to come on a public forum and tell another member that it's OK........well, that's just wrong and irresponsible.
2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually King Ranch Diesel
2017 Keystone Fuzion Impact 303
Track Bike  2008 GSX-R750
"If it ain't Fast......It ain't Fun

Oldgator73

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2017, 06:35:48 AM »
Yeah, been there, done that. Way back in 1998 we bought a One ton Chevy crew cab diesel and the started looking for 5th wheels. We found a 5th wheel we like. A 37 foot, triple slide, triple axle monster (at least at the time it was). The dealership said we would have to sign a waiver for them to sell us us that unit with intention of pulling it with that truck. So I went truck shopping. The first thing I learned was car salespeople know nothing about trucks. I did a lot of research and ended up with a 3/4 ton Dodge, long bed, single cab, 2 wheel drive, with the Cummins diesel and 5 speed manual transmission. The payload limit was 3900lbs. I had a Jake brake installed by Cummins. I never had one days problem towing the 5th wheel. I did lose about $10k when I traded a new Chevy in on a new Dodge. It was an expensive lesson to learn.

steveblonde

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2017, 07:29:50 AM »
Then you've looked up the wrong parameters!  Check out Ford's website in the towing guide area and make sure that you pay special attention to what they say about NEVER exceeding ANY of the weight capacities of the vehicle.  This includes GVWR, RAWR, FAWR, The combined towing wight rating, Cargo Carrying Capacity.....also known as Payload.....it all there!  That warning doesn't give you the option to pick and choose which one or two to abide by and ignore the rest.  It states that NONE of the weight capacities should be exceeded!  You can't get much clearer than that for a warning.  Whether or not you choose to agree/abide by it is up to you........but to come on a public forum and tell another member that it's OK........well, that's just wrong and irresponsible.

i agree with XRATED and kdbgoat 1000%
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2014 F150 Ecoboost Reg cab (company truck) daily driver
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded  5167lbs cargo/weight capacity
Selling truck parts for 15 yrs plus
" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh

john owens

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2017, 04:35:46 PM »
Okay the Pep Boys win.....besides I love my Class A and would not have any use for a fiver... ;D
2011 Winnebago 37F Class A  2012 Unlimited JK 2001 HD roadking  1964 Manx 1641cc buggy 1985 22'Lazy Daze Class C 2007 Chaparrel 26' deck boat..Thats all folks!!

colorado_rv

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2017, 04:38:14 PM »
Thank you all for the perspectives. I think the conclusion I've come to is if we choose to continue down the FW TH path, we need to find the lightest one possible (2 axles for sure). I just plain don't like the TT TH options I'm seeing...I want a separate garage and I don't want my living area to look/feel like a garage. I'm not willing to trade in the truck at this point, but who knows...we'll see how frustrated I get as we continue the search.

Can anyone tell me the difference between Hitch Weight and Pin Weight? I'm looking at the Momentum M class units now...I hear you all saying Pin Weight is 20% GVWR. If you use the Momentums as an example, the Hitch Weight advertised doesn't add up.

Momentum 328m            Momentum 351m
UVW: 12,400                  UVW: 13,600
HW: 2,450                      HW: 2,785
GVWR: 16,500                GVWR: 16,500

Using the 20% calc, the pin weight on both of these units is the same at 3,300. How can that be with a 1200# difference in UVW?

Another factor for us...there's no way we will reach GVWR. We camp in campgrounds...no boondocking, so we never fill our tanks at all and dump onsite. At best, with our Vespas, we're in the 1500# range for cargo in the unit.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 04:42:51 PM by colorado_rv »
2017 Ford F-350 Crew Cab LB SRW 6.7L Diesel
2017 Winnebago Minnie 2455BH TT
2017 Vespa GTV300
2017 Vespa GTS300 Super

colorado_rv

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  • Posts: 6
Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2017, 04:42:10 PM »
I basically made the same mistake. I bought a new 2015 F-350 short bed SRW 6.7 Powerstroke. Shortly after my better half bought a 2011 Fuzion 322 toyhauler. When I picked it up, it felt like a lot of weight. Truck pulled it just fine and didnít sag at all, but it just made me nervous. I ended up taking a big financial hit and traded for a dually. It cost me, but what a difference. And my toy hauler is no where near the size you are looking at. But it was worth it for my peace of mind and enjoyment of towing. I didnít really want a dually because of the fat ďbuttĒ, but I got over that once I got used to it I really love the way it tows. But you can get a toy hauler that your truck can tow within itís rating, just not the ones you are looking at. I have felt your pain, believe me.

It's maddening for sure...

I would have gone the dually route, but honestly don't think it will fit width-wise in my garage, and I refuse to put an $80k vehicle in the driveway. Also, wasn't one available with my options in a 1,000 mile radius when I was buying, they stopped taking 2017 orders, blah blah blah...
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 04:44:09 PM by colorado_rv »
2017 Ford F-350 Crew Cab LB SRW 6.7L Diesel
2017 Winnebago Minnie 2455BH TT
2017 Vespa GTV300
2017 Vespa GTS300 Super

grashley

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  • Western KY for now.
Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2017, 05:05:10 PM »
Normally, HITCH wt is the weight a TT places on a ball hitch.
               PIN wt     is the weight a FW places in the pin.

Tongue wt and hitch wt are the same thing.

DO NOT use published UVW or HW for ANY calculation.  Sales folks love them, but they ignore the fact folks do not go camping in an empty camper!  UVW is generally as it comes from the factory with no options, no battery and empty propane tanks.  HW has legal meaning and rarely is close to an actual loaded for camping pin wt or hitch wt.

Always use GVWR for camper wt and 20% of that for FW pin wt.  If it weighs a little less, it is a small extra safety margin.

One number absent from your chart is CCC or cargo carrying capacity.  By definition, GVWR - UVW = CCC.  The lighter UVW unit has a larger CCC, or can haul more stuff.

Thanks again for asking before you made the camper purchase!
Preacher Gordon, DW Debbie
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS  Progressive HW50C
Andersen Ultimate hitch
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4   TST TMS  Garmin 760
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

steveblonde

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2017, 05:52:28 PM »
The difference on most toy haulers between 2 and 3 axles is not so much the trailer wieght but the carrying capacity of the unit
My Voltage is 2 axles and has a cap of 3200lbs in the garage and gvwr of 16500 the same size unit with a 4200 lbs capacity has 3 axles
For me 3 axles wasnt needed as i only load about 1000 lbs in the garage and will probably never load more my Voltage is 39'8" and 15000 lbs loaded for an extended trip of 3 weeks with food water etc etc and a full tank of fuel 30 gals

My previous truck had a yellow decal of 3800lbs and i was within 200 lbs of max wieght
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 05:56:17 PM by steveblonde »
2015 Voltage 3305 Toy Hauler - loaded
2014 F150 Ecoboost Reg cab (company truck) daily driver
2017 Black on Black F350 Diesel Dually loaded  5167lbs cargo/weight capacity
Selling truck parts for 15 yrs plus
" If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space"
From Canada Eh

longhaul

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2017, 08:44:06 PM »
Quote
Another factor for us...there's no way we will reach GVWR. We camp in campgrounds...no boondocking, so we never fill our tanks at all and dump onsite. At best, with our Vespas, we're in the 1500# range for cargo in the unit.
Some toy haulers can have 4k-5k CCC .
  Looking at the 328M says it has a 16500 gvwr and a 12400 dry weight (UVH)= a 4100 lb CCC (cargo carrying capacity).
    When choosing a trailer always look at dry weight and gvwr. You know you won't tow the trailer at its dry weight and "only you" will know how much you will load in the trailer.

 This 16.5 gvwr trailer is a typical problem deciding on a srw or drw  as its pin weight plus a hitch and other gear in the bed is just out of reach of the F350 srw rawr truck.......however if you load the trailer to 14k-14.5k or so then the F350 srw has enough axle capacity to carry the load.
 We don't know how many toys or how much weight you add to your trailer so some folks  use 20% of its 16.5 gvwr.

 If your going to carry more weight than the trucks tires/wheels or rear suspension can carry many folks go with 19.5" tires and wheels with some type of after market rear suspension help.
 Your choice their.....just be aware "legal" overweight issues.

Lynx0849

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2017, 02:58:50 PM »
While you donít need to hit the comercial scales and risk getting caught overweight, the legal part comes up if you have an accident. If overweight, donít expect your insurance company to be your friend and the other guy to be seeing a lottery win.

Drifterrider

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Re: Tow questions for 2017 Ford F-350 and toy haulers
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2017, 01:06:23 PM »
Hi all,

I'm apologizing in advance for what I'm sure is an 'eye-roll' moment for most of you seasoned RV veterans out there...yes, I have a tow vehicle question.

We have a 2017 Ford F-350 Lariat 6.7 Diesel 4x4 Long Bed Crew Cab SRW with 3.55 rear end. We are in our first year of RVing, and of course have decided that the 2017 Winnebago Minnie 2455BH travel trailer we purchased will not meet our needs since acquiring 2 Vespa GTV300 scooters. Originally we had thought we would just load them in the truck bed, but quickly learned that loading and unloading 350 lb. scooters while camping is not easy or convenient, especially when searching for suitable places to load on an incline.

Have you considered buying the extra long, extra wide ramps so you can ride your scooters into the bed?  You would want a ramp wide enough so you can put your feet on the ramp if you have to stop while loading or unloading.  For a few hundred dollars there are several suitable ramps in aluminum (for lightness) on the market.