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Author Topic: Safe to leave gas on while driving?  (Read 3821 times)

wijames2002

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Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« on: December 13, 2017, 05:07:56 PM »
Is it safe to leave the propane on to power the fridge while driving to the campsite?

Thanksin advance
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donn

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2017, 05:18:36 PM »
Beat to death topic.
Probably 90% of us do.  The rest seem to think its too scary to do so.

8Muddypaws

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2017, 05:19:49 PM »
We always travel with the refer running on propane.
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spencerpj

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 05:23:41 PM »
Always do

xrated

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2017, 05:45:47 PM »
I tried it Once, to see how I liked it....having the fridge cold while we travelled.  I liked it well enough to try it again, and what do ya know...same results.  So, I thought Id try it again..........it's become a habit!  Try it, you'll like it! 
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kdbgoat

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 05:58:25 PM »
We do also.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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NY_Dutch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 06:29:18 PM »
We switched to a residential fridge, but we still leave the LP on so we can run the furnace in cold weather while underway.
Dutch
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BruceinFL

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 07:11:01 PM »
yES BUT....Turn off any pilot lights/refer while refueling in a service station.
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Rene T

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 07:19:05 PM »
I use to but now I have a residential fridge now and it runs off a inverter.
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kdbgoat

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 08:40:31 PM »
yES BUT....Turn off any pilot lights/refer while refueling in a service station.

Actually, you need to turn off the water heater and fridge. If the igniters start in, that's what causes problems.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant


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lavarock1210

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 09:32:33 AM »
Watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ5Qe1ESVfU&feature=youtu.be

May not be a good time to have the propane fridge running and propane valves open.


hedhunter9

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 11:04:19 AM »
Have never turned it off...

Bob
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newfurrows

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2017, 11:38:50 AM »
Only time I turn the gas off is when it goes into a shop for repairs.
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UTTransplant

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2017, 01:03:18 PM »
Over the last 20 years with a refrigerator running on propane we turn off the gas when we change tanks or empty the refrigerator at home.
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Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 01:19:31 PM »
Beat to death topic.
Probably 90% of us do.  The rest seem to think its too scary to do so.

X2

Bill
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Rene T

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 02:07:47 PM »
Watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ5Qe1ESVfU&feature=youtu.be

May not be a good time to have the propane fridge running and propane valves open.

Still don't see a problem. The propane tanks are outfitted with a safety valve whereas if it senses a large amount of gas leaking such as a broken line, the valve will shut.
Rene, Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
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JackL

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2017, 05:04:59 AM »
I never have, and never will.
 To me it is a safety issue.

 Others can do as they want to.

Jack L

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2017, 07:10:07 AM »
Watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ5Qe1ESVfU&feature=youtu.be

May not be a good time to have the propane fridge running and propane valves open.

Did I miss the fire or explosion?  Besides loose tanks on a trailer and mounted tank on a motorhome are some what different in likelihood of separation from the vehicle.  As several have said, it is a personal choice.  Don't need the hot water because the engine is keeping that heated but do need cold and frozen items in fridge so I let ours run when on the road.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
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Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
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Alfa38User

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2017, 08:42:18 AM »
Quote
Still don't see a problem. The propane tanks are outfitted with a safety valve whereas if it senses a large amount of gas leaking such as a broken line, the valve will shut.

The problem is not so much the propane for the Fridge or hot water heater in YOUR RV itself but if the fridge/heater is left ON, the automatic lighting equipment (DSI) may try to start the fridge/heater and will generates sparks to do so. This can possibly ignite any gasoline fumes that can be found around the gasoline pumps while refueling, especially if someone nearby allows their tank to overflow, spilling gasoline all over the ground.

That is why it is recommended to always shut those appliances down completely when refueling. Running with propane and appliances on does not present that danger usually.
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aguablanco

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2017, 01:52:05 PM »
You'll kill yourself and everyone around you! Or so some people would have you believe. Most of us do it all the time. When was the last time you heard leaving the L.P. gas on was the reason for an explosion or fire?
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HappyWanderer

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2017, 06:50:31 PM »
Vehicle fires at gas pumps are actually pretty common, most frequently caused by static electricity igniting gasoline vapors. I cringe every time I see someone retreat into their car while fuelling, then jump out and grab the nozzle.

The presence of propane is not hazardous at a gas station. However, knowingly driving into a vapor-rich environment with an potential ignition source such as a DSI is just stupid. Take the time to turn off the appliances.

And despite was the dire warnings posted on the gas pumps, your cellphone is not an ignition hazard.
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Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2017, 07:17:42 PM »
Vehicle fires at gas pumps are actually pretty common, most frequently caused by static electricity igniting gasoline vapors. 

As a matter of fact a gentleman from Florida arrived in Springfield, Mo  five days ago and went to gas up his car at a standard gas pump. Static electricity created a fire which burned him badly.  He died this morning.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2017, 08:43:15 PM »
10's of 1000's of people do it every day.   

Lot's of rumors about death and destruction,  but I have never met anyone with a first hand experience.



 



« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 08:58:37 PM by TonyDtorch »

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2017, 08:30:45 PM »
I turn propane off while driving. Just not that hard to do.
Tim
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'14 Honda CRV

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2017, 06:48:04 AM »
I turn propane off while driving. Just not that hard to do.

Very easy to do but might make for a warm fridge after 8-10 hours of driving and opening it for rest stops.  Just never felt the need but, of course, that is a personal decision for each of us.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2017, 08:14:28 AM »
Always leave ours on while driving and TRY to remember to turn it off while fueling up. 50-50 on the try. As someone said earlier the engine is heating the water so no need to waste propane there.
Gene

2013 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2011 Honda Fit

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2017, 12:14:13 PM »
Very easy to do but might make for a warm fridge after 8-10 hours of driving and opening it for rest stops.  Just never felt the need but, of course, that is a personal decision for each of us.

Bill

The inverter powers the fridge underway and the engine alternator keeps the batts charged.
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2017, 03:03:57 PM »
The inverter powers the fridge underway and the engine alternator keeps the batts charged.
Merry Christmas.
Interesting, do you have it plugged into a separate inverter circuit?
Bill
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timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2017, 07:11:50 AM »
Merry Christmas.
Interesting, do you have it plugged into a separate inverter circuit?
Bill

A call to Fleetwood and I got the answer: The refrig ice maker outlet is wired to the inverter. Their thinking is that with the inverter the ice maker will always be powered irrespective of the refrig power source. Ice will always be available even if the refrig is powered by propane, provided the inverter is on. The refrig power outlet is not powered by the inverter so it will auto go to propane when the campground power is removed.

We don't use the ice maker. So I simply removed the icemaker plug from the inverter powered outlet and replaced it with the refrig plug. I leave the inverter on all the time (except in storage) so the refrig is always powered. In the event we dry camp the refrig will still auto go to propane (provided the propane valve is on) if I turn the inverter off to save battery power.

My arriving at the campground checklist on item #9 is "open propane valve and purge air". My departing the campground checklist item #12 is to close the propane valve. Sorry about the overuse of checklists - I'm a retired airline pilot.

This works well for us, and a Merry Christmas to you to as well Bill.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 07:21:58 AM by timjet »
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2017, 11:13:54 AM »
   Sorry about the overuse of checklists - I'm a retired airline pilot.

No argument there.  Retired Minuteman ICBM Launch Crew Commander.
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2017, 11:18:52 AM »
C-130 driver - back in the day.
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2017, 03:34:41 PM »
A call to Fleetwood and I got the answer: The refrig ice maker outlet is wired to the inverter. Their thinking is that with the inverter the ice maker will always be powered irrespective of the refrig power source. Ice will always be available even if the refrig is powered by propane, provided the inverter is on. The refrig power outlet is not powered by the inverter so it will auto go to propane when the campground power is removed.

We don't use the ice maker. So I simply removed the icemaker plug from the inverter powered outlet and replaced it with the refrig plug. I leave the inverter on all the time (except in storage) so the refrig is always powered. In the event we dry camp the refrig will still auto go to propane (provided the propane valve is on) if I turn the inverter off to save battery power.

My arriving at the campground checklist on item #9 is "open propane valve and purge air". My departing the campground checklist item #12 is to close the propane valve. Sorry about the overuse of checklists - I'm a retired airline pilot.

This works well for us, and a Merry Christmas to you to as well Bill.
Yes, I use the inverter /icemaker outlet to power my new residential refrigerator.
Works much better than the absorption/propane one.
Bill
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Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
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timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2017, 04:46:14 AM »
My absorption fridge is 11 yo and so far so good. I dread the day I have to replace it. I'll also go with a residential one when the time comes.
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2017, 06:15:22 AM »
Yes, I use the inverter /icemaker outlet to power my new residential refrigerator.
Works much better than the absorption/propane one.
Bill
I have never used my inverter since I bought the coach 3 years ago but you are giving me ideas. MY fridge is still working ok but not as good as it did when we bought the coach so a residential may be in the picture if medical problems don't force me to sell it first.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2017, 06:57:45 AM »
Bill, the only time we use our inverter is while underway, though it is always on unless in storage. I have a silverleaf vehicle monitoring system that displays on a computer that is plugged into a inverter outlet. And of course the refrig is powered by the inverter while underway as discussed previously.

We will be dry camping next month for a couple of days so the inverter will get a work out. Looking forward to it. Hope you get your medical issues worked out.

Happy New Year!!
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2017, 10:02:40 AM »
I have never used my inverter since I bought the coach 3 years ago but you are giving me ideas. MY fridge is still working ok but not as good as it did when we bought the coach so a residential may be in the picture if medical problems don't force me to sell it first.

Bill
We always run the inverter while driving. It powers up a few electrical outlets allows us to charge our phones, computers etc and run a crock pot for dinner when we arrive at our campground for the night.
Gene

2013 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2011 Honda Fit

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2017, 12:10:19 PM »
We always run the inverter while driving. It powers up a few electrical outlets allows us to charge our phones, computers etc and run a crock pot for dinner when we arrive at our campground for the night.

Okay, I give up.  I have never had an inverter in any of our many previous RVs so wasn't too familiar but now it is sounding downright convenient.  Next warmup run, I'll take along the test meter and see which outlets are powered by the inverter.  Like that crock pot idea.

Bill
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

Larry N.

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2017, 12:19:01 PM »
I rarely turn my inverter off, thus fridge, clocks, etc. don't have interrupted power, unless I'm storing the coach away from shore power or it goes in for maintenance. Pretty much all the outlets are hooked through the inverter. If battery power is critical, I might turn it off while necessary, but (for me) that's rare.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
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Dragginourbedaround

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2017, 02:44:10 PM »
Quote
Like that crock pot idea.
We put the crockpot in the kitchen sink for stability. In our coach the outlets on the same side as the inverter are hot.
Gene

2013 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2011 Honda Fit

timjet

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2017, 07:06:03 AM »
Is it safe to leave the propane on to power the fridge while driving to the campsite?

Thanksin advance

More info on this topic http://www.doityourselfrv.com/is-it-dangerous-to-run-an-rv-propane-refrigerator-while-driving-your-rv/

« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 08:04:12 AM by timjet »
Tim
Tampa Bay
'07 American Tradition DP 40', 1.5 bath
'14 Honda CRV

TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2017, 10:18:13 AM »
I guess there are some people that would wear a life-jacket on a Cruise Ship.

All kinds of bad things could happen... ;)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:33:46 AM by TonyDtorch »

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2017, 11:24:55 AM »
A light bulb just came on as a result of this thread.  Now I know how I can run my oxygen concentrator while on the road instead of using up bottled oxygen.  THE INVERTER.  Concentrator is not a high power user but it does need 110 v so run a little tubing to needed place and I should be in business.  Will go looking for a used home concentrator - they are much cheaper than the portable models.
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2017, 12:56:11 PM »
More info on this topic http://www.doityourselfrv.com/is-it-dangerous-to-run-an-rv-propane-refrigerator-while-driving-your-rv/

One more bunch of un proven statements and false statement's about how unsafe it is to leave  the propane on.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2017, 01:01:57 PM »
A light bulb just came on as a result of this thread.  Now I know how I can run my oxygen concentrator while on the road instead of using up bottled oxygen.  THE INVERTER.  Concentrator is not a high power user but it does need 110 v so run a little tubing to needed place and I should be in business.  Will go looking for a used home concentrator - they are much cheaper than the portable models.
Bill, use a circuit detector, you should have a outlet in the bedroom that is powered by the inverter. Turn off shore/genarater power and see what outlets have power. I have on outlet and the rear tv in the beadroom. In front I have the front tv one outlet and the microwave and icemaker outlet.
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
Allison 3000MH Trans.
Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
-Mark Twain-

H5-Phil

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2017, 09:19:28 PM »
In 2 decades of towing TTers, we've never traveled with our propane tanks open.  The plus side for us is that the question of whether or not it's safe, is moot.
Phil & Karen with Crash, our 'guard' Dachshund
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Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2017, 06:35:17 AM »
In 2 decades of towing TTers, we've never traveled with our propane tanks open.  The plus side for us is that the question of whether or not it's safe, is moot.
Just as a funny, your post reminded me that for the first 3 years of RVing (it wasn't yet called that), we also used no propane on the road.  The fridge was an ICEBOX.......lol
Bill & Joan N in Missouri
USAF (Ret - 1961-1981)
2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

JoelP

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2017, 02:22:46 PM »
We always travel with the refer running on propane.

Safety aside, isn't it likely that you will be well out of level much of the time while you are driving.  Won't that cause crystallization to occur in the system to degrade performance?
Joel from San Jose

2010 Itasca Suncruiser 37F
8.1L Chevy Workhorse with Banks PowerPack
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NY_Dutch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2017, 04:10:02 PM »
Safety aside, isn't it likely that you will be well out of level much of the time while you are driving.  Won't that cause crystallization to occur in the system to degrade performance?

That's not an issue while underway. Normal vehicle motion keeps the fluid agitated enough to prevent crystallization. And most roadways keep the fridge within the level limits the fridge manufacturers specify anyway, on all but the steepest grades.
Dutch
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2018, 11:02:20 AM »
I love that article about the 'Dangers' of leaving the propane on.   ;D

If you blow a tire,  go off the road,  rollover,  brake the gas line,  it could explode !!

 after all that ...it may be better.    You go out with a bang. ;)



Or....you can leave the gas on...leave the fridge on....Slow down a bit ....and everything will be fine.   :))
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 11:29:56 AM by TonyDtorch »

Dreamsend

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2018, 07:29:32 AM »
Love the fact that so many are concerned with this as a safety issue, and obviously, that so many have thought about it.  If you'll allow, I'd like to throw some science at this issue for those who may be interested.   If I understand correctly, the concern is that an igniter spark in the refrigerator or the hot water heater will ignite gasoline/diesel vapors.  The short answer is yes, it could.  But look more closely at the conditions that MUST be present in the environment where the SPARK is for that to happen.  I'll use gasoline in my example, cause this one I know off the top of my head, having taught it to thousands of industrial employees so they can safely work with flammable materials in the course of their jobs.  BTW, I'm not trying to convince anyone to NOT turn off their sources of ignition in their rigs if that is their choice.

For a fire (a slow explosion) or an explosion (a fast fire) to occur, we all know you have to have oxygen, a fuel source in vapor form, and heat (spark, flame, catalytic converter, etc.).  Otherwise known as the fire triangle.  However, these three things also have to align perfectly in order for ignition to occur.  Oxygen is a no brainer in our example, and the heat source (igniter) is also obvious.  The trick is having the fuel vapor concentration within the FLAMMABLE LIMITS of gasoline, which is 3.5% to 7.5% concentration in air.  That is, the air at the spark must contain at least 3.5% gasoline vapor and no more than 7.5%.  Put another way, the air has to contain 35,000 to 75,000 parts per million (ppm) of gasoline vapor -- and to do so, this vapor is displacing the other components in air, i.e. oxygen (for life) and nitrogen mostly.   What are ppm-s?  Imagine a hotel with a thousand floors -- one tall building, and now imagine there are 1,000 rooms on each floor.  That hotel has 1 million rooms (or parts).  At least 35,000 of those rooms would have to be filled with gasoline vapor so that, if a spark were introduced, the air would ignite.  (a silly exercise perhaps!).

The odor threshold (when you can smell the vapor) for gasoline is 0.025 ppm for most people.  Waaaaayyyyy below 35,000 ppm.  I can honestly say, that if you and your rig pull into an environment with at least 35,000 ppm gasoline vapor in the air -- which would have to happen for that air to somehow also penetrate your reefer and the heater at the igniter -- you would immediately be unable to breath!  You would quickly asphyxiate unless moved to a normal oxygen environment, and a fire would be the least of your worries.   :)

BTW - the same logic applies to diesel fuel-- although I don't know the exact numbers, they are similar, -- diesel limits change a little depending on the mix, much more than the flammability limits of gasoline.

I'm certainly no mechanic who knows auto engines in and out, but to kinda back this up with what we've all observed, I wonder how we made it through years and years of gassing up millions of vehicles with spark plugs, when we all used to keep the engines running while fueling?  Safe?  Maybe not.  Were there fires, yes.  Were they frequent?  No.  Catalytic converters (reaching temps of 1,000 degrees F, which is way above the flashpoint of -40 degrees F for gasoline) in poor shape are much more likely to cause a gas station fire than running propane in an RV.  But even fires caused by catalytic converters are infrequent, because that magic mix of oxygen and fuel vapor has be be just right to ignite. Given all the air movement with breezes etc. creating the magic mix is NOT frequent nor sustainable.  Converters are why we turn off engines while fueling.  But I always wondered -- what about all the vehicles operating as they pull in and out and jockey for a pump?

The gas station fire in MO mentioned in this thread, where the exact cause remains uncertain, but is speculated to have been due to static electricity is another good example.  I would speculate that the fuel dispenser may not have been not properly grounded, and static electricity, the discharge of which is always a potential in the absence of proper grounding when two dissimilar substances rub against one another, (like gasoline flowing through a hose) discharged somewhere at or near the dispenser where the "magic" fuel vapor and oxygen ratio was present.   Someone else mentioned spills at gas stations -- once again, the environment in the immediate vicinity of a spill would still have to be the magic mix, so that in the presence of an ignition source, it would ignite.  That ignition source is highly, highly, unlikely to be your reefer or heater igniter.   I'm certain there are a few of you out there that played the game of throwing a lighted match into a container of gasoline to show-off to your friends.  Lucky you - your match missed encountering the "magic" environment, and was extinguished by the liquid gasoline, because as we all know, liquids don't burn, only vapors.

Is it possible that RV equipment igniters can cause a fire.  Yes, given that they ignite in the presence of the correct oxygen and fuel vapor mixture and that enough combustible materials are around to sustain the fire.  But is it probable to an extent that igniters must be turned off?  I'll offer an analogy.   Is it possible I could die within the next 5 minutes?  Yes, it is possible.   But based on current conditions and circumstances, is it not probable to the extent that I even need think about it.  A bit dramatic probably, but I couldn't come up with anything better.

Just my thoughts on the issue.  I don't plan to turn off sources of ignition in my TT while fueling, unless the equipment is malfunctioning for some reason.  I just don't think those ignition sources will be located in a "flammable" environment while I'm fueling. 


Linda

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UTTransplant

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2018, 07:35:53 AM »
Thank you Linda for facts, not conjecture.
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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2018, 09:04:57 AM »
Well said Linda.
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HappyWanderer

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2018, 12:05:16 PM »
I'm not convinced. The fact remains that gasoline vapors being ignited at filling stations is a fairly frequent occurrence. Obviously, that means the correct conditions to support such ignition are also present.

Using spark plugs as a reference is not valid: there's a reason why the term "internal combustion" is used to describe an automobile engine.

And no, the same logic does not apply to diesel fuel. You can actually submerge a burning road flare in a bucket of diesel fuel without incident. I wouldn't want to try that with gasoline.

A filling station is not a controlled industrial environment, where vapor concentration is known or can be predicted. To knowingly introduce a possible ignition source into a potentially explosive atmosphere is nothing less than stupid.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2018, 04:19:11 PM »
I'm not convinced. The fact remains that gasoline vapors being ignited at filling stations is a fairly frequent occurrence.

"fairly frequent" ?     of the millions of gasoline fill-ups every hour all over the country and you hear about an explosion once or twice a year ??

What are the odds of getting hit by lightning ?    ???
 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 05:03:11 PM by TonyDtorch »

HappyWanderer

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2018, 06:07:17 PM »
I would call an average of 4,000 vehicle fires per year at filling stations to be a "fairly frequent" occurrence.

Certainly no one would consider someone lighting up a cigarette at a gas pump to be acceptable behavior. Why would a DSI in the same location be any different?
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NY_Dutch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2018, 06:53:02 PM »
4,000 vehicles is about 0.0015% of the ~255,000,000 cars on the road in the US. With about 45,000 new cars sold per day in the US, I'd call that a pretty insignificant number, and even more insignificant when we don't know the causes of those fires. Obviously they weren't all caused by RV'ers leaving the fridge on while refueling.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2018, 07:14:41 PM »
I would call an average of 4,000 vehicle fires per year at filling stations to be a "fairly frequent" occurrence.

Certainly no one would consider someone lighting up a cigarette at a gas pump to be acceptable behavior. Why would a DSI in the same location be any different?

As a kid working a many different gas stations,  I remember 100's of people that would get out of their car with a lit cigarette while I was putting gas into it.   

We were instructed to wash all the service bays with gasoline every night at closing... and me and my friends all smoked back then.

but that was back in the metal dash no seatbelt days.... before stupidity was classified as an official disability.

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2018, 08:48:02 PM »
Quote
I would call an average of 4,000 vehicle fires per year at filling stations to be a "fairly frequent" occurrence.

There are many ways a car can catch fire that don't involve the same situation as an RV appliance. Break out those 4,000 into causes and perhaps you'll have something. There are LOTS of car fires every year (probably more than 4,000- I don't have figures) that are nowhere near a filling station, too.
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WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2018, 09:12:24 PM »
Add to that, my coach is diesel. I have never heard of a (proven) case of a coach catching fire while refueling because the propane was on.
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Old_Crow

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2018, 06:01:00 AM »
Not to mention that my 2 potential sources of ignition(w/h and fridge)are on the totally opposite side of the coach and about 20 feet down the side from the gas filler neck.  Now I do turn them off when filling propane, they're only like 5 feet from that tank.
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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2018, 06:22:31 AM »
Yep, both my furnaces, the water heater, and the fridge before we went residential, are on the opposite side from the fuel filler. As said, the propane tank is on the same side as the appliances though.
Dutch
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Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2018, 08:39:46 AM »
Yep, both my furnaces, the water heater, and the fridge before we went residential, are on the opposite side from the fuel filler. As said, the propane tank is on the same side as the appliances though.

I don't think the placement of those items was done by accident.  Same on my coach.  A car driving up on the other side of the pump would have more of a chance of blowing up the place.  But this is one of those thread like the toilet paper one  - it is up to each operator as to what they prefer to do

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2018, 08:44:16 AM »
But this is one of those thread like the toilet paper one

What are you getting at?   :o ::) ;D :D ;)
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gravesdiesel

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »
I sell forklifts and one of the biggest safety features on a forklift is being powered by diesel fuel.  Same thing with vehicles.  Diesel fuel has no explosive fumes so it is safer to transport, store, dispense and haul in a vehicle fuel tank.
I have several customers that are welding/fab shops.  They prefer diesel powered forklifts for this very reason.  Electric lofts produce hydrogen when their batteries are discharging and charging and we all know the dangers of gasoline and propane fumes.
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Dreamsend

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2018, 10:24:27 AM »
Diesel fuel has no explosive fumes so it is safer to transport, store, dispense and haul in a vehicle fuel tank.

This is funny because technically your statement is correct, however the intent of what comes across is ALL WRONG!!  No organic substance (like petroleum fuels) generate fumes, because fumes are composed of particulate matter, and fume generally refers to the smoke that comes off of burning metal.  so "diesel fuel has no  . .fume" is correct.

HOWEVER, it looks like what you're trying to state is that diesel fuel has no "explosive" vapors.  And therein lies the problem.

If it doesn't burn, how in holy nature do you think it generates POWER?  Diesel fuel does most certainly burn -- it just takes higher temperatures or pressure to generate enough volume of diesel vapor to get it to do so when compared to gasoline.  Diesel fuel is regulated by every safety and environmental agency as a hazardous material.  IT IS, scientifically classed as a COMBUSTIBLE, which denotes a lower (but not zero) explosive or fammability hazard compared to gasoline, which is classed as a FLAMMABLE.

Don't want to believe me?  Here's a paste from the CITGO Safety Data Sheet, you know, that OSHA required document that ALL employees who work with, around, or are exposed to diesel fuel are suppose to be VERY familiar with?

"""Flammable liquid and vapor. In a fire or if heated, a pressure increase will occur and
the container may burst, with the risk of a subsequent explosion. The vapor/gas is
heavier than air and will spread along the ground. Vapors may accumulate in low or
confined areas or travel a considerable distance to a source of ignition and flash back.
Runoff to sewer may create fire or explosion hazard."""

Link to pdf document if you'd like to familiarize with ALL the other hazards of diesel - for example, toxicity.
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/AG2DF.pdf

I give up!



 
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NY_Dutch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2018, 12:20:21 PM »
And if anyone still thinks diesel fuel is safe from explosion, take a look at this list of OSHA diesel fuel related incident reports and notice the number that include "explosion" or "explodes"...


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Dutch
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WILDEBILL308

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2018, 01:43:21 PM »
Still not one,  NOT ONE case where having the propane on when fueling caused a fire.
You are wasting your time tying to prove a non event. Have fun.
You have completely miss construed the OP's question so you can rant about the dangers of Diesel. WHAT are you trying to prove? Posting about people setting firers when they improperly use a torch to cut a diesel tank, riley how is this germane to the subject?
Bill
2003 Bounder 38N
300 HP 5.9 Cummins
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Towing 2014 Honda CRV
Home base Fort Worth, Texas
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gravesdiesel

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2018, 01:52:10 PM »
In the situations I explained, it is not explosive. It is the safest out of the fuels I listed (lead acid battery, propane, gasoline and diesel fuel) for the situations I listed (welding/fab shop, storage, transporting, dispensing and hauling in a vehicle fuel tank).
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2003 Dodge 3500 4 door flatbed 4x4 diesel, 6 speed
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Many other diesels on the farm!

lavarock1210

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« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 05:27:53 PM by lavarock1210 »

Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2018, 04:21:02 PM »
What are you getting at?   :o ::) ;D :D ;)
Means it is like a tennis match - back and forth, back and forth.  Those TP threads are similar.  Never ending.






Bill & Joan N in Missouri
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Bill N

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2018, 04:23:22 PM »
Still not one,  NOT ONE case where having the propane on when fueling caused a fire.
You are wasting your time tying to prove a non event. Have fun.
You have completely miss construed the OP's question so you can rant about the dangers of Diesel. WHAT are you trying to prove? Posting about people setting firers when they improperly use a torch to cut a diesel tank, riley how is this germane to the subject?
Bill

Amen Bill.
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2002 Winnebago Adventurer 35U
Workhorse W22, 8.1L Chevy V8
2013 Chevy Sonic Toad
Furbearers:  Heidi-17(Forever), Cats: Grace-11 & Squeak-6, Winnie the ShihTzu - 16 mos

NY_Dutch

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2018, 05:06:52 PM »
Still not one,  NOT ONE case where having the propane on when fueling caused a fire.
You are wasting your time tying to prove a non event. Have fun.
You have completely miss construed the OP's question so you can rant about the dangers of Diesel. WHAT are you trying to prove? Posting about people setting firers when they improperly use a torch to cut a diesel tank, riley how is this germane to the subject?
Bill

The statement was made that "Diesel fuel has no explosive fumes..." which is obviously incorrect given the reported explosions. And I have not "misconstrued" anything, since I'm in agreement that propane related fires while refueling are nearly non-existent.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 05:09:09 PM by NY_Dutch »
Dutch
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newfurrows

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #72 on: January 11, 2018, 05:15:49 PM »
It doesn't look like this discussion is likely to change much.  We have about beat it to death!
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lavarock1210

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #73 on: January 11, 2018, 05:34:20 PM »
Still not one,  NOT ONE case where having the propane on when fueling caused a fire.
You are wasting your time tying to prove a non event. Have fun.
You have completely miss construed the OP's question so you can rant about the dangers of Diesel. WHAT are you trying to prove? Posting about people setting firers when they improperly use a torch to cut a diesel tank, riley how is this germane to the subject?
Bill

http://www.houmatoday.com/news/20100325/gas-station-fire-destroys-indiana-couples-rv

Plus I witnessed a fire at a gas station caused by an RV with the refrigerator on.  Burned the whole station to the ground.

jackiemac

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Re: Safe to leave gas on while driving?
« Reply #74 on: January 11, 2018, 06:28:05 PM »
It doesn't look like this discussion is likely to change much.  We have about beat it to death!

I agree and am locking the post before things turn nasty....
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