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Author Topic: Need advice on Ford F150  (Read 4532 times)

IriteI

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Need advice on Ford F150
« on: December 21, 2017, 08:03:46 AM »
Hi all - I've just retired and am considering buying an UltraLite 5th wheel so I can pull it with a half ton pickup.  Am very interested in the Ford F150 with the 3.5L 6 cylinder turbocharged EcoTech engine.  Does anyone have any experience with this engine?  Any comments, complaints, or suggestions would be extremely welcome!

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2017, 09:01:00 AM »
The engine has plenty of power as long as you don't mind revving it up to produce the hp.

The biggest issue with a half ton truck and a 5W is the lack of carrying capacity (payload). Even an "ultralight" 5W puts 20% of its GVWR weight on the hitch pin, so even a modest size 5W will likley load the truck with 1500-2000 lbs. Few F150's have that much payload.
Gary
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donn

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2017, 09:35:55 AM »
Possibly the worst idea put forth this week.  1500 series trucks simply are not suited.   To get towing ratings sufficient to even consider a fiver you will need the HD package.  Meaning single digit towing MPG.  Any you still get weak semi floating rear axle, weak P metric tires, soft springs.  If you really want a 1500 eco boost then get a properly matched TT.  If you want a fifth wheel, especially for more than weekend travels then get a correctly matched truck.
1500= not suitable for fifth wheels
2500= good for fivers up to about 10,000 GVWR
3500 SRW= good for fivers up to around 13,000 GVWR.
3500 duallies= good for fivers up to around 16,000 GVWR

blw2

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2017, 10:14:33 AM »
I'm not a 5th wheeler...but I have an observation.

Every now and then I'll see some rather small 5th wheel trailers.  Usually, perhaps always, they are a bit on the "classic" end of the age scale
Many of these look very much to be within the realm of a properly equipped half ton. 

Looking at the more modern 5th wheels I see on the road, I'd say easily 90% of them are about the size of my first two houses combined.

Maybe he's got his sights set on something a bit smaller than most folks now days think about when they picture a 5th wheel.....
Brad (DW + 3 kids)
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kdbgoat

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2017, 10:20:29 AM »
Another issue with an "ultralite", what has been scrimped on to make it ultra light? Thin frame, thin roofing and flooring, etc.? I'm not saying someone can't be perfectly happy with an ultra light, but they should be aware of what they are getting for their money.
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xrated

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2017, 12:21:17 PM »
And PLEASE......PLEASE, don't be fooled by the manufacturer's "Dry weight" numbers or the advertised pin weight.  Both of those numbers are totally useless.  No one goes camping with an empty trailer.  The number that you need to look at is the GVWR of the trailer....then multiply that number times 20% and you will have a fairly close representation of the real world/actual pin weight of the trailer you are looking at.  If your F150 for example has a 1750 lb payload capacity, even a 5ver of only 7000 lbs GVWR will put you to the very edge of your payload capacity.   7000 lbs times 20% = 1400 lbs.  Then add on your bed hitch....maybe another 175 lbs and you've got 1575 lbs.  That leaves you with an extra 175 lbs for EVERYTHING else that goes on or in the truck before you are overloaded.  And even if you make it under that number, do you really want to spend your "towing time" right on the ragged edge?  I know I don't.  The best advice I can give you is to educate yourself with all the info that you can find about towing and towing capacities, don't believe the sales brochure, and certainly don't listen to the trailer salesman when they start their sales pitch with......"Yea, that truck of yours can tow most any trailer around"!!  Run, don't walk, away from that guy or gal....they want a sale first and generally don't have any regards for your needs and your safety.
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butch50

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2017, 03:26:01 PM »
Possibly the worst idea put forth this week.  1500 series trucks simply are not suited.   To get towing ratings sufficient to even consider a fiver you will need the HD package.  Meaning single digit towing MPG.  Any you still get weak semi floating rear axle, weak P metric tires, soft springs.  If you really want a 1500 eco boost then get a properly matched TT.  If you want a fifth wheel, especially for more than weekend travels then get a correctly matched truck.
1500= not suitable for fifth wheels
2500= good for fivers up to about 10,000 GVWR
3500 SRW= good for fivers up to around 13,000 GVWR.
3500 duallies= good for fivers up to around 16,000 GVWR

donn,

Where does your info come for for a 350/3500 dually. Per Ford 2017 towing specs the F350 4X2 LB with a 4.10 rear axle ratio is rated to tow up to 32,200#GVWR goose neck trailer and 27,500#GVWR trailer for a 5th wheel and GCWR of 40,000#

Here is a  link to Ford towing specs, take a look at page 6 for goose neck/5th wheel towing.

https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/17RV&TT_Ford_SuperDtyPU_Sep9.pdf

Now I'm not saying someone should tow that high but that is what the manufacturer is rating the truck for. My 2017 Ram with 3.42 rear rating is rated for a 16,000 GVWR 5er and Rams run just a little shy of the Ford ratings for lower geared 3500 DRW with the Aisin trans .
Butch

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butch50

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2017, 03:31:10 PM »
Over on the Grand Design site there is a fellow that tows a Reflection 303 5er with his F150 EB with the heavy tow package. He travels every year from Canada south. This is a very knowledge person and he loves how his truck pulls the 5er. I have the same trailer and use a Ram 3500 Mega cab dually to pull mine, but I know I'm over trucked for what I'm towing.

There is another one pulling on if the lighter Reflection 150 series and is very happy with his handling and he used to have a bigger truck pulling the Reflection 303 but downsized to the new truck and trailer.
Butch

I try to always leave doubt to my ignorance rather than prove it

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grashley

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 05:41:16 PM »
95 % of the time, towing ANY FW  with a ˝ ton truck is a very bad idea.  The rare exception is a F150 special ordered with the HEAVY TOW package.  This gets the payload up into the range it can tow a SMALL FW.

Manufacturers claims of ˝ ton towable should be a criminal offense, as they put unsuspecting customers in grave danger!  Their excuse is the DRY, or empty weight is within the payload range of SOME ˝ ton trucks, IF they are carrying no passengers or other cargo.  The truth is that nobody goes camping with an empty camper or an empty truck.

I had a conversation with a friend recently.  He had just bought a new lightly equipped reg cab ˝ ton pickup, with a larger than usual Payload, and said it could pull a FW.  The truck dealer also sells campers and he had a ˝ ton towable that only weighed 7,000#.  I said, OK, now add 1,000# of gear to the trailer, makes 8000#.  20% is 1600# pin wt.  Add a 200 # FW hitch.  We are at 1800#.  Then I opened the driver door, pointed at the yellow placard, showing a max load of about 1850#.  I added, as soon as you sit down in the cab, without passengers, you are overweight.

DO NOT DO IT!!!
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Lynx0849

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 06:09:42 PM »
donn,

Where does your info come for for a 350/3500 dually. Per Ford 2017 towing specs the F350 4X2 LB with a 4.10 rear axle ratio is rated to tow up to 32,200#GVWR goose neck trailer and 27,500#GVWR trailer for a 5th wheel and GCWR of 40,000#

Here is a  link to Ford towing specs, take a look at page 6 for goose neck/5th wheel towing.

https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/17RV&TT_Ford_SuperDtyPU_Sep9.pdf

Now I'm not saying someone should tow that high but that is what the manufacturer is rating the truck for. My 2017 Ram with 3.42 rear rating is rated for a 16,000 GVWR 5er and Rams run just a little shy of the Ford ratings for lower geared 3500 DRW with the Aisin trans .

Towing spec doesn’t always consider the pin weight. I suspect if you had a trailer where the weight was pretty much over the axels, then the towing capacity would be the gating item. For RV trailers, more weight is on the pin. Heck, subtract the axel capacities from the gvwr and you will see that some simply has to be on the pin.

longhaul

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2017, 10:12:07 PM »
Quote
Any comments, complaints, or suggestions would be extremely welcome!
Everyone has a opinion. Some based on actual vehicle specs and others based on personnel bias against 1/2 ton trucks.

 Any 1/2 ton truck can pull a 5th wheel trailer that fits within its ratings.

 Looking at Fords fleet body specs show you can get a F150 with gvwrs ranging from 6200 up to 8200 lbs and several rawr numbers from small 3600 lbs up to 4800 lbs. RAWR is of major concerns as its carrying all the load in the bed.
 Don't be fooled by Fords max tow packages as its based on towing instead of load carrying ability.

 The best package is the F150HD 7850-8200  GVWR and 4800 rawr which is good for up to around 2400-2500 lbs before exceeding rawr.

 Next down is a 7500-7600 gvwr and 4550 rawr good for around 2000-2100 lb in the bed.

 Worst is the 6800-7050 gvwr with small 3800-4000 lb rawr good for 1400-1600 lbs in the bed.

 Which size F150 3.5 eb engine cab selection 2wd vs 4wd bed length have to be considered also. Those that tow a 5th wheel trailer or a TT with the 3.5 EB engine seem well pleased with its performance.

 You didn't say if your looking at new or used but a used higher capacity F150HD is all but impossible to find. Owners are hanging on to these trucks.

 Fifth wheel trailers come in sizes from 5k up to 25k so let the trailers dry weight and GVWR determine which size F150 you need.

 
 

IriteI

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2017, 07:05:47 AM »
This forum is great!  I've been trying to read up on so much stuff, my head is spinning!  I'm hoping to get a 5th wheel, about 27-32 foot - seen some pretty nice used ones advertised that are in the 10K GVWR range.  I have been told to get a truck first, then buy a FW that I can tow with it.  The 2015 F150 specs I had been looking at show the 3.5L V6 can tow from 10,500 to 11,800 lbs depending on cab/bed size.  Now it looks like I need to consider the rear axle weight rating, is that right? 
Right now, my girlfriend and I are not planning on being full-timers but we would sure like to take some 2 or 3 week trips.  Lots to see and do, and never enough time to do it all!  Thanks, Larry

Senator

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2017, 07:14:12 AM »
95 % of the time, towing ANY FW  with a ˝ ton truck is a very bad idea.  The rare exception is a F150 special ordered with the HEAVY TOW package.  This gets the payload up into the range it can tow a SMALL FW.

My advice is to buy an F350.  They are virtually the same price as a similarly equipped F150, yet are 10x the truck.

Look at the payload, not the towing capacity.

Let your wife and daughter drive the F150 to the grocery store.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 07:16:19 AM by Senator »
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Rene T

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2017, 07:18:29 AM »
I have been told to get a truck first, then buy a FW that I can tow with it. 

I would never buy the truck first unless you buy something that will haul anything like a 4500. 
I would find the RV with the floor plan that is best for me and my DW. That's the most important thing is make sure she's happy. Then buy a truck to match it.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 07:20:25 AM by Rene T »
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xrated

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2017, 07:50:09 AM »
This forum is great!  I've been trying to read up on so much stuff, my head is spinning!  I'm hoping to get a 5th wheel, about 27-32 foot - seen some pretty nice used ones advertised that are in the 10K GVWR range.  I have been told to get a truck first, then buy a FW that I can tow with it.  The 2015 F150 specs I had been looking at show the 3.5L V6 can tow from 10,500 to 11,800 lbs depending on cab/bed size.  Now it looks like I need to consider the rear axle weight rating, is that right? 
Right now, my girlfriend and I are not planning on being full-timers but we would sure like to take some 2 or 3 week trips.  Lots to see and do, and never enough time to do it all!  Thanks, Larry

Did you read my post up above ^^^^^....the one by xrated...me?  I clearly explained the payload issue that you are going to encounter with a F150 towing a 7000 lb GVWR trailer.....and you are still thinking about something in the 10,000 lb GVWR?  Can you say O V E R L O A D E D?
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2017, 08:37:24 AM »
Quote
Where does your info come for for a 350/3500 dually. Per Ford 2017 towing specs the F350 4X2 LB with a 4.10 rear axle ratio is rated to tow up to 32,200#GVWR goose neck trailer and 27,500#GVWR trailer for a 5th wheel and GCWR of 40,000#

Sure they can pull that much trailer weight, but they can't carry anywhere near that much 5W pin weight. A 27,500 lb 5W RV would load the truck down with a 5500 lbs pin weight!   Further, the stated tow ratings do not fully account for frontal area resistance either. The base assumption in the Ford Tow Guide is a max of 75 sq ft of 5W frontal area, but a typical large 5W RV will be more like 100 sq ft.  Ford has an entire page in their tow guide on frontal area considerations and says "Exceeding these limitations may significantly reduce the performance of your towing vehicle".
Gary
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Roy M

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2017, 02:09:38 PM »
We started out with a smal fiver and a truck that according to the specs should have handled it. It was not a pleasant experience in the mountains, two trips were enough to convince us. A 10,000 lb fiver is the most I am comfortable with behind my 2500. It's overkill for the current one but I am happy with it. Larry, you and your lady either need to consider more truck or scale back your expectations for the trailer.

Joezeppy

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2017, 04:07:46 PM »
I have no personal experience but have 2 friends who pulled approx 9,500 lb 5ers with F150 EcoBoosts for 2 years and they both hated it. One added air bags to level things out but that ironically reduced his available CCC. Both traded up. One for a 2500 GMC and the other for an F350.
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grashley

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2017, 06:54:39 PM »
FORGET PUBLISHED TOW RATINGS!!!

Pick the FW FIRST!  Then and only then, you know how much truck / PAYLOAD /RAWR  you need to haul it.

A 27 - 32 ft FW is not a small FW.  Unless you get the F150HD as X rated said and I referenced, and buy on the smaller end, no ˝ ton truck will carry that heavy of a load.

Calculate how much weight is on the rear end.  Simply add 200# for a hitch to 20% of the FW  GVWR.  That will sit directly above your rear axle.  This MUST be less than net axle capacity.
Now add the weight of all passengers and cargo in the truck to the number above.  This MUST be less than the yellow placard Max Capacity of the truck.

To pull the camper you want, you really need a F250 / F350.  These two trucks are virtually identical twins.  The difference is in the rear spring pack and rated capacity.  For the very small, less than $1000 new, price difference, get the extra capacity F350.  Do not let the dealer change your mind, based on what he has in stock!
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xrated

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2017, 07:47:50 PM »
Amen Preacher!  You got it goin' on.
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RVRAC

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2017, 11:06:45 PM »
When I had a 32 ft FW, I thought I would be ok with a 2500HD Silverado.  I was wrong and had to trade it for a 3500 RAM.  Then my problems vanished.  Get a 3500 truck for the FW you want. Otherwise, you will be trading trucks in the future like I did.
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steveblonde

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2017, 11:19:02 PM »
Lmao i love this post i find it amazing that some people only hear what they want to hear and ignore the invaluable advise given
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 11:31:57 PM by steveblonde »
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longhaul

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2017, 01:32:11 PM »
This forum is great!  I've been trying to read up on so much stuff, my head is spinning!  I'm hoping to get a 5th wheel, about 27-32 foot - seen some pretty nice used ones advertised that are in the 10K GVWR range.  I have been told to get a truck first, then buy a FW that I can tow with it.  The 2015 F150 specs I had been looking at show the 3.5L V6 can tow from 10,500 to 11,800 lbs depending on cab/bed size.  Now it looks like I need to consider the rear axle weight rating, is that right? 
Right now, my girlfriend and I are not planning on being full-timers but we would sure like to take some 2 or 3 week trips.  Lots to see and do, and never enough time to do it all!  Thanks, Larry
I would say you need to down size from a 5th wheel trailer that size.
   My 28RK weighs 11200-11400 lbs depending on how its loaded and has a 2200-2400 lb hitch weight. Works fine for my 2500 Dodge/Cummins however by the time you add the 2400 lbs hitch weight plus a 180-200 lb hitch/rails/mounting brackets and another  couple of hundred lbs in the bed... there is no F150 that can carry that much weight in the bed.
 Ford gives these trucks a 10k-11k lb tow rating for all types of trailers not just a rv trailer. Example is one of my 10k car haulers which would work with the right F150 simply because the load on the trailer can be placed  for any required hitch weight. We can't do that with a 5th wheel rv trailer or a TT.

 I'll run some numbers at you for the F150HD 7850 gvwr 4800 rawr. These trucks rear axle may weigh 2400-2500 lbs range which leaves around 2300-2400 lb payload in the bed before exceeding a wheel/tire/rear spring pack. Now subtract that 200 lb hitch system = 2200 lbs and another 200 lbs for stuff in the bed and back of the cab = 2000 lbs for a max load.

 If your sticking with a F150HD  I would look at 5th wheel trailers with 1600-1700 lb dry pin weight.
 

 

 


   

spencerpj

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2017, 01:46:40 PM »
IriteI...  You might buy a F150, it might pull a 5 wheel on flat land, but I'll bet your F150 that you'll upgrade to at least a F250 after one trip.  Be smart, these guys have been pulling and rigging trailers for years.  Buy a used F250 if money is an issue, buy a Diesel, and you'll really be happy.  Nothing stinks worse than being under-Powered.  And above all else, don't listen to a salesman when it comes to specs.  You are doing the right thing.  Research the heck out of this, and this site has tons of great information and advice.  Welcome...

RGP

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2017, 02:18:09 PM »
Real world CAT scale numbers.

2010 F-150 4x4 with e-boost engine 356 hp. towing capacity 15,000, cargo capacity 1411. weight of truck and trailer when ready for the road is 13,000 lbs.
2011 25 FT Dutchmen Lite tow behind when loaded for the road 6200 lbs. 700 lbs. tongue weight. (dry weight 5004 lb. 406 on tongue.) So, dry does not mean much.
2 adult, dog and camp gear in bed of truck 650 lbs.
So if you do the math you will see that I am very near my trucks cargo capacity.

The F-150 had done a great job of towing the Dutchmen for the last 30,000 mile. We have crossed the Rockies twice with no problems and the turbo charger provided low end torque when needed.

I really enjoy my rig combo but in all honesty I could not find a FW light enough for my F-150 when loaded for the road.

I think an F-250 is sound advice.     

« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 02:28:33 PM by RGP »

Clomok

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2017, 11:38:44 PM »
Like many have said, find the trailer you want FIRST, then the truck to pull up it. You will come out way ahead of the game.  If you want a gas truck, the 3/4 ton gas trucks will get the job done, and still have a softer ride when unloaded.  After working on the industry (both truck and rv repair) the F150 ECOboost is a awesome truck, with a staggering payload. BUT I would never recommend a 5th wheel and a 1/2 ton to anyone

Redrockerstl55

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2017, 10:28:27 PM »
Consider a F250 or F350.  You can get into those trucks for approximately the same amount as a F150 with the 3.5 EcoBoost.  I just went through this process in August.  I landed on a F250 Lariat with the 6.7 diesel and the truck is amazing. 

The price of the F150 I was looking at was $58K.  I got the F250 for $60K.  The Super Duty trucks are in a different league.  A F350 is only about $600 more than a F250 and you pick up even more cargo capacity.  Important for a 5th wheel customer. 

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ammotroop1991

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2017, 03:20:59 PM »
Owned a 2015 F150 3.5 supercrew and did lot of homework.  Actually Bought a Cougar 29RLI for the F150 3 weeks ago Sunday.  Monday I bought a 2017 F250 6.7L and then changed my order to a 344MKS and picked it up that Sat.  Long story, but bottom line is for your F150... keep the hitch weight 1200-1400 and total dry weight around 7K and you will be fine.  F150 3.5 has tons of TQ (420) and 340 HP.  Just remember, do your own homework.  Towed a 5K lb TT with F150 and barely knew it was back there.  Everyone has an opinion and this is mine.

xrated

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2017, 03:59:33 PM »
Owned a 2015 F150 3.5 supercrew and did lot of homework.  Actually Bought a Cougar 29RLI for the F150 3 weeks ago Sunday.  Monday I bought a 2017 F250 6.7L and then changed my order to a 344MKS and picked it up that Sat.  Long story, but bottom line is for your F150... keep the hitch weight 1200-1400 and total dry weight around 7K and you will be fine.  F150 3.5 has tons of TQ (420) and 340 HP.  Just remember, do your own homework.  Towed a 5K lb TT with F150 and barely knew it was back there.  Everyone has an opinion and this is mine.

Depending on how the F250 is equipped, you may still not have enough payload capacity.  You didn't offer much info about it....2WD vs. 4WD....Crew Cab vs. Regular Cab...Lariat vs. stripped down model...camper package vs. standard springs!  My previous truck, a 2011 F250 diesel CC 4x4 XLT came with 2148 lbs of payload capacity.  The 344MKS shows a GVWR of around 12.5K, so that's close to 2500 lbs of pin weight without the hitch and all your other stuff.
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grashley

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Re: Need advice on Ford F150
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2017, 08:00:27 PM »
Owned a 2015 F150 3.5 supercrew and did lot of homework.  Actually Bought a Cougar 29RLI for the F150 3 weeks ago Sunday.  Monday I bought a 2017 F250 6.7L and then changed my order to a 344MKS and picked it up that Sat.  Long story, but bottom line is for your F150... keep the hitch weight 1200-1400 and total dry weight around 7K and you will be fine.  F150 3.5 has tons of TQ (420) and 340 HP.  Just remember, do your own homework.  Towed a 5K lb TT with F150 and barely knew it was back there.  Everyone has an opinion and this is mine.

To each his own opinion, but this is a recipe for real trouble.  A DRY wt of 7K will mean a pin wt of 1400 lbs (20%) and a loaded weight of 8K or 9K, which is the true weight of what you are towing, not some misleading mystery spec from the manufacturer.  With a 8K or 9K weight, the ACTUAL pin wt will be 1600 - 1800 lbs.  Add a 200 lb hitch and a couple passengers and you are significantly overweight for almost all ˝ ton trucks not owned by a construction company or for other industrial use.
Preacher Gordon, DW Debbie
09 Grand Junction 35 TMS  Progressive HW50C
Andersen Ultimate hitch
2013 F350 Lariat LB SRW Supercab diesel 4X4   TST TMS  Garmin 760
Nimrod Series 70 popup (sold)
It's not a dumb question if you do not know the answer.