School at a price

TonyDtorch said:

Millions or billions of dollars doesn't mean as much as it used to....

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True.  $300 when JFD started college (1960?) is the same as $2,500 today.  It's called inflation.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Paul & Ann said:

Why would a business lower its' prices just because it has more money?  I am guess stock holders would not like that.

Why would a business expand its' business and hire more people just because they have more cash?  If that were the case why isnt Apple, who has about 250 billion in cash on hand using this money to reduce prices, expand, or hire more people?

The same 20% who pay 90% of the taxes, I would guess make 90% of the income.

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Looks like we are on the opposite side of the spectrum here Paul.  In my business, if I wanted to be competitive I had to definitely keep my price in line with others.  Taxes are a major part of the price structure and maybe if I was the only company in my field I could definitely stash the extra money from reduced taxes.  But, since I have competitors, they would soon bury me with lower prices for basically the same product. 
Why would a business expand its' business and hire more people just because they have more cash? Because it takes money to make more money and you seem to suggest that they just let it sit.  Idle cash in a business if it becomes excessive is basically useless.  Companies tend to use big profits to expand and expansion involves more jobs.  Economics 101.

It is a proven statistic that 47% pay NO taxes and the definition of the middle class seems to change with every political speech. 
In short, I am very much in favor of the new tax bill and really have to laugh at polls that say it is not popular.  How many people had any clue even what was in it before it was passed so how could a poll accurately predict anything - even a presidential election.......lol

We can invest in ourselves any way we choose.  Some invest in collage in hopes of getting a return on that investment.  Others invest in their small business in an effort to produce more wealth.  The average student indebtedness upon graduation is 20 some thousand dollars, about the price of a used pickup truck.  Tell me why that debt or interest should be forgiven.  Shouldn't a business owner get a free pickup?  ???

Bill N said:

Looks like we are on the opposite side of the spectrum here Paul.  In my business, if I wanted to be competitive I had to definitely keep my price in line with others.  Taxes are a major part of the price structure and maybe if I was the only company in my field I could definitely stash the extra money from reduced taxes.  But, since I have competitors, they would soon bury me with lower prices for basically the same product. 
Why would a business expand its' business and hire more people just because they have more cash? Because it takes money to make more money and you seem to suggest that they just let it sit.  Idle cash in a business if it becomes excessive is basically useless. Companies tend to use big profits to expand and expansion involves more jobs.  Economics 101.

It is a proven statistic that 47% pay NO taxes and the definition of the middle class seems to change with every political speech. 
In short, I am very much in favor of the new tax bill and really have to laugh at polls that say it is not popular.  How many people had any clue even what was in it before it was passed so how could a poll accurately predict anything - even a presidential election.......lol

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So why hasnt Apple reduced the price of its' products?  Are you saying it has no competition?

Also, are you saying that companies expand their businesses when they have large profits, even if there is no increase in demand for their product?

Again, if this were true, Apple would have spent at least part of its'  250 billion dollars reducing prices, and increasing production, including hiring more workers.  Since they havent, your argument is demonstrably false.

We do agree that any poll on the effect of the this tax bill is unreliable, because, as you said, no one knows what all is in it.

We also agree that 47% of the Federal Income Tax filers pay no taxes.  That is not because they are cheating the system, but they simply dont make enough money to OWE any taxes, which is the real heart of the problem.

Paul it sounds as if you are basing your whole argument on one company - Apple.  All of my higher education was in business related areas and specialties.  But when you say my argument is demonstrably false that is your viewpoint but there are sure a lot of economics and business administration folks who will agree with it.  I guess we can just leave it at agreeing to disagree.

Bill

Bill N said:

Paul it sounds as if you are basing your whole argument on one company - Apple.  All of my higher education was in business related areas and specialties.  But when you say my argument is demonstrably false that is your viewpoint but there are sure a lot of economics and business administration folks who will agree with it.  I guess we can just leave it at agreeing to disagree.

Bill

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I was using Apple just as an example.  There are lots of companies sitting on huge amounts of cash and not hiring more people or lowering prices.  My conclusions are based on observation, and not on economists or some business administration folks charts, graphs or statistics.

So yes, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Apple,  really doesn't have competition.   

There are other devices ..but nothing exactly like Apple.

Until there is a better, cheaper, 'Apple' like product,  Apple will keep raising their prices until they start loosing market control.

  Henry Ford  did it another way,  he reduced his profit marg. lowered the price of his product which increased demand and thus increased Fords market control.

(Henry Ford did not go to college)

lynnmor said:

We can invest in ourselves any way we choose.  Some invest in collage in hopes of getting a return on that investment.  Others invest in their small business in an effort to produce more wealth.  The average student indebtedness upon graduation is 20 some thousand dollars, about the price of a used pickup truck.  Tell me why that debt or interest should be forgiven.  Shouldn't a business owner get a free pickup?  ???

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Excellent point...student loans should be paid back..

Willandgiselarv said:

Excellent point...student loans should be paid back..

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Part of the problem is... the Student Loan industry is just as ethical as the Home Loan industry was.

College educations and Student Loans are a huge industry.    University's have become a 4 year long Toga party with competing football teams. 
Pay the money you will receive a certificate of higher income.... and you can run a cool "Alumni" license plate frame on your car.

The student loan problem is just another part of the problem when you have 47% of Federal Income Tax filers not making enough money to OWE any Federal Income taxes.

Yes,  The wealthier 53% of America pays for the other half.

I thought everyone knew that. 

  A flat tax would have been cool.

TonyDtorch said:

Yes,  The wealthier 53% of America pays for the other half.

I thought everyone knew that. 

At the point when the percentages flip ....America is done.

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So the key to solving the problem is to raise the wages of the 47% so that they make enough money to OWE Federal Income taxes, and by doing so, the number of people qualifying for social welfare programs will decrease dramatically, as will the cost of these social welfare programs.  A win win for the whole country!

Where are those dollars (wage increase) coming from ?  Are you going to confiscate them from the people that worked hard and saved up a bunch ?

There is only so many dollars in the world.  If you print up a bunch of dollars and hand them out to that 47%,  all dollars are worth less.

it would just raise the national debt, not a great answer ...IMO.

TonyDtorch said:

Where are those dollars coming from ?  Are you going to confiscate them from the people that worked hard and save up a bunch ?

There is only so many dollars in the world.  If you print up a bunch of dollars and hand them out to that 47%,  all dollars are worth less.

not a great answer ...IMO.

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The price of labor(wages) is primarily determined by supply and demand, so if we decrease the supply of labor, or at least slow down the increase, wages will rise on their own as they have been doing, albeit slowly, for the last few years, so some of these companies with all this cash on hand, will be forced to pay some of that money for increased wages.  Before we left Iowa for the winter, I saw a McDonalds advertising starting wages as high as $13.50 per hour.  That is a start.

but now I can't afford to buy a Big Mac as often as I used to ??

L.A. passed a new minimum wage law,  that McDonald's will get $15 an hour, 

They say a person working at a fast food restaurant can not properly raise a family on the present min wage of $10.25  .......Duh ?

TonyDtorch said:

but now I can't afford a Big Mac ??

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Why not?  I saw a study from a couple of years ago that showed that if McDonalds raised their starting wage to $10.10 per hour from $7.75, it would only add $.04 to the cost of a Big Mac.

So if every company raises their prices by the same percentage we could give everyone a pay raise ??

and in the end where are we ?  They call it 'inflation' I think.

Paul & Ann said:

The price of labor(wages) is primarily determined by supply and demand, so if we decrease the supply of labor, or at least slow down the increase,

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Every night there are 100's of new laborers coming into America.

Yes we should slow that down.

TonyDtorch said:

Every night there are 100's of new laborers coming into America.

Yes we should slow that down.

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) 

It would slow down naturally if for everyone of the people who come here every night and are then hired by a business, the business is fined $10,000 as provided by Federal Law.  Wouldnt be long and businesses would no longer hire the people who come here every night, and they would stop coming here.

as long as our economy is better than their's ...they will continue to come to America and melt into that 47%.

If it wasn't so cold,  I'd think about sneaking into Canada.  I hear everything up there is free...